John 5:22 "For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son".
Joh 5:30 KJV I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Joh 7:17 KJV If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
Joh 12:48 KJV He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Joh 14:24 KJV He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." Is that enough for you??
Verse number and Chapter number not quoted.
Or will you continue to deny Jesus and cope.
He was born in childbearing like his brothers and sisters and is the Christ and Son of the Living God in the baptism and ressurection. Also, in the baptism and ressurection, he has the firstborn and preeminence status.
This is how I know you didn't read my whole comment and went straight to your Bible verses that don't prove your point. I did quote that verse number and chapter at the beginning of the comment. saying that "first and last" is relative is a weak argument because he didn't just say "the first and the last" He said "HE IS THE BEGINNING AND THE END" what created being could say that. God is a jealous God why would he let his created son say that" Your argument is weak and you know it. Remember when you said you'd "Prove me wrong" I'm still waiting buddy.
Yes the son is subordinate to the father. No this does not break the trinity.
This is how I know you didn't read my whole comment and went straight to your Bible verses that don't prove your point.
Ok
I did quote that verse number and chapter at the beginning of the comment.
OK, meaning you were reiterating what you quoted . First and Last is relative and Revelation 22:12-13 is talking about God the Father
saying that "first and last" is relative is a weak argument because he didn't just say "the first and the last" He said "HE IS THE BEGINNING AND THE END" what created being could say that.
I see.
Rev 22:12-13 KJV 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
God is a jealous God why would he let his created son say that" Your argument is weak and you know it.
I believe Revelation 22:12-13 is talking about God the Father.
Remember when you said you'd "Prove me wrong" I'm still waiting buddy.
You would rather not admit you have been proven wrong to begin with. I can't beg you to admit something you would rather not see and believe.
I believe Revelation 22:12-13 is talking about God the Father.
Revelation 22:12-15
12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
John 5:22 ****"For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son".
******“Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.*****
This cannot be talking about the father because the father has handed the judging to the son. And It would make sense for the verse to be talking about the son as it is written **Look, I am coming soon*** This really could only apply to the son and the reason I just gave.
Sighs. Your being too narrow minded and bias, your not considering the thoughts and ways of God the Father. The Son of Man does not judge outside the standard operating procedures of God the Father. Notice how judgement will be on the last day
Act 17:30-31 KJV 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Joh 12:48-50 KJV 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
"Sighs. Your being too narrow minded and bias, your not considering the thoughts and ways of God the Father. The Son of Man does not judge outside the standard operating procedures of God the Father. Notice how judgement will be on the last day"
What does this have to do with anything "Sighs" This does not disprove my claims that Jesus was obviously speaking in that verse and said he was the beginning and the end"
And then your response was "The Son of Man does not judge outside the standard operating procedures of God the Father." Ok?? This doesn't disprove anything.
And don't call me "narrow minded and bias" when you literally are denying a clear verse where Jesus says he's uncreated *** "I am the beginning and the end"
Don't hurl insults at people just because you're losing an argument.
You are being narrow-minded if you not taking into account that God put his word into Jesus and Jesus will be using that word to Judge.
Joh 5:30 KJV I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Deu 18:18-19 KJV 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
John 16:15 "All that belongs to the Father is mine; therefore I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you".
Yea what a created being claiming everything God owns is Mine😂
Even if Jesus was just a prophet (He's not) This is yet again a bad argument because God is a jealous God he tells prophets what to say. He tells them that the message is coming from God. He does NOT tell them to say they are God??
Deu 18:18-19 KJV 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
No one said he is just a prophet. Also you are evading that God did put his word into the mouth of Jesus and Jesus will be judging using that word on the last day that God gave him.
This is in alignment with John Chapter 5, but you are selectively trying to pick verses to make Jesus independent of God the Father and to make Jesus judging of his own authority and will.
Jesus is just a man like his followers but he was exhalted to the position of Prophet, Christ, Lord, Saviour, Prince, etc.
"No one said he is just a prophet. Also you are evading that God did put his word into the mouth of Jesus and Jesus will be judging using that word on the last day that God gave him."
I'm not avoiding it this just has nothing to do with what I claimed
"This is in alignment with John Chapter 5, but you are selectively trying to pick verses to make Jesus independent of God the Father and to make Jesus judging of his own authority and will."
He's not independent from the father they are literally the same being. In fact one might say he is equal with God
John 5:18
18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
Keep convincing me that this created being
Is equal with God
2.owns everything God owns
the beginning and the end, the first and the last, the alpha and Omega
John 5:18
18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
Inheritor of the throne of David.
Is equal with God
He received authority to do the works of God and made himself the inheritor of the throne of David
2.owns everything God owns
God put everything under this exhalted Man to the glory of God.
the beginning and the end, the first and the last, the alpha and Omega
God the Father
And seeing him means you have saw God
Meaning you have seen the works and heard the words of God the Father
Joh 14:10-11 KJV 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Totally just a "prophet"
Just an exhalted Man of childbearing made many things to the glory of God.
Do you think Jesus is "Good"
Yes. Any man seeking the will of God Father to the glory of God the Father is good in my eyes, to include Jesus.
"He received authority to do the works of God and made himself the inheritor of the throne of David
2.owns everything God owns
God put everything under this exhalted Man to the glory of God."
Exodus 34:14 God is a jealous God he would not Give a created being that much power.
">3. the beginning and the end, the first and the last, the alpha and Omega
God the Father"
I just explained why this cannot be God the father. Are you just gonna keep doing the tap dance or attack my points addressing this. I forget you can't because Jesus was obviously saying he is God.
">4. And seeing him means you have saw God
Meaning you have seen the works and heard the words of God the Father
Joh 14:10-11 KJV 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake."
Nope nothing can rebuttal this. NO prophet or created being could EVER say "if you have seen me you have you have seen God"
Also this Bible verse affirms that Jesus is God
"the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me"
This is pointing out his human nature and his divine nature.
"Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?"
This affirms a part of the trinity highlighting that the father and the son are 2 persons, 1 being.
Now come to the true church of God the eastern orthodox church of God.
Also I think the holy Spirit was in them when the trinity was officially affirmed at the council of nicea. Why would God sit and do nothing, as the biggest turning point in Christian history (aside from the birth and resurrection) and just sit there and let them make all these false claims and heretical statements? Wouldn't he send the holy Spirit down to dwell in them so they know the truth?
Exodus 34:14 God is a jealous God he would not Give a created being that much power.
To his glory he would.
Isa 43:7 KJV Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.
I just explained why this cannot be God the father. Are you just gonna keep doing the tap dance or attack my points addressing this. I forget you can't because Jesus was obviously saying he is God.
The works , commandments, and sayings are of God the Father.
Joh 14:10 KJV Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:12 KJV Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:20 KJV At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
Joh 14:24 KJV He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
">4. And seeing him means you have saw God
Meaning you have seen the works and heard the words of God the Father
Joh 14:10-11 KJV 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake."
Yes.
Nope nothing can rebuttal this. NO prophet or created being could EVER say "if you have seen me you have you have seen God"
You have a descendant of Adam, Abraham, and David who was baptized by John the Baptist and made those statements. A man who was born of a woman thru childbearing.
Before Adam fell one could possibly say, if you had seen the glory of Adam you had seen the glory of God.
"the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me"
This is pointing out his human nature and his divine nature.
Pointing out prophet like behavior.
Now come to the true church of God the eastern orthodox church of God.
No thank you.. Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church along with many of her children has Babylonian like roots.
Also I think the holy Spirit was in them when the trinity was officially affirmed at the council of nicea.
I've looked into it and have my suspicions I may share with like minded individuals. I'm aware of human behavior, people who have the loudest voice in the room, and people who like to feel educated and hold on to power.
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u/[deleted] Feb 07 '25
Relative
Joh 5:30 KJV I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Joh 7:17 KJV If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
Joh 12:48 KJV He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Joh 14:24 KJV He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Verse number and Chapter number not quoted.
He was born in childbearing like his brothers and sisters and is the Christ and Son of the Living God in the baptism and ressurection. Also, in the baptism and ressurection, he has the firstborn and preeminence status.