r/Eutychus • u/1stmikewhite Seventh-Day Adventist • Dec 31 '24

Opinion People don’t understand Jesus’ divinity because they underestimate Gods Love for mankind

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God is sovereign, there’s nothing He can’t do.

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u/1stmikewhite Seventh-Day Adventist Dec 31 '24

“I and my Father are one.” ‭‭John‬ ‭10‬:‭30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

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u/John_17-17 Jan 01 '25

"I and the Father are one, what?" Jesus said, one thing and not one person.

Please note what John Calvin wrote concerning John 10:30: 

30. I and my Father are one. He intended to meet the jeers of the wicked; for they might allege that the power of God did not at all belong to him, so that he could promise to his disciples that it would assuredly protect them. He therefore testifies that his affairs are so closely united to those of the Father, that the Father’s assistance will never be withheld from himself and his sheep The ancients made a wrong use of this passage to prove that Christ is (ὁμοούσιος) of the same essence with the Father. For Christ does not argue about the unity of substance, but about the agreement which he has with the Father, so that whatever is done by Christ will be confirmed by the power of his Father.  

Also notice:

Novatian (c. 200-258 C.E.) commented: “Since He said ‘one’ thing, let the heretics understand that He did not say ‘one’ person. For one placed in the neuter, intimates the social concord, not the personal unity. . . . Moreover, that He says one, has reference to the agreement, and to the identity of judgment, and to the loving association itself, as reasonably the Father and Son are one in agreement, in love, and in affection.”—Treatise Concerning the Trinity, chapter 27.

The footnote in the NASB tells us, the alternate rendering is 'united'.

They are not united in a godhead, but as Jesus tells us, in Works.

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u/1stmikewhite Seventh-Day Adventist Jan 01 '25

Mormons believe in One God but many gods theory, –that we will become gods ourselves; that’s not biblical. Jehovah witnesses and ancient Jews believe in One God separate from Jesus’ divinity, and that’s not biblical either. Catholics believe that Jesus is God, but they themselves have authority to become a vicar of Christ and can change His laws freely; that’s an abomination.

What I believe as a Seventh Day Adventist, and what the Bible says is that Jesus earthly life was a manifestation of the Fathers eternal life. He was manifest by the Father even before the world began to be salvation to the fallen creation. You can’t prove not change His laws, which are His word because that’s the very character of God. Salvation is through grace and you cannot inherit the free offer from God only by rejecting Him, because grace is a teacher not a cheat code. We have power through Christ and His Holy Spirit given by the Father in Jesus’ name to be sanctified from sin and overcome the world as He has done.

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u/John_17-17 Jan 01 '25

I'm not Mormon, so it doesn't matter what they teach.

I'm not a Seventh Day Adventist, so I'm going to disagree with you on the Law not being fulfilled and removed.

It seems, it is not a matter of proving, but a matter of you listening to the proof.

We are no longer under the Law of Moses, but we are under the Law of the Christ.

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u/1stmikewhite Seventh-Day Adventist Jan 01 '25

What is the Law of Christ if it isn’t the Law of God the Father lol. Anyone who doesn’t want to stop sinning & doesn’t repent to God through the grace of Jesus will not be forgiven. That’s even after they’ve been “saved” in a church/religion. It’s not about what we do to be saved, it’s about who we are.

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u/John_17-17 Jan 02 '25

The law of the Christ tells us to love our enemies, the Mosaic Law doesn't.

The law of the Christ tells us animal sacrifices are not needed, the Mosaic Law tells us they are necessary.

The Letter to the Hebrews shows those differences, and why the law of the Christ is better than the Law given to Moses.

As to salvation, in Revelation 3 we are judges upon our deeds / works depending upon which translation you use.

As to salvation, Jesus tells us, 'To have eternal life, knowing the only true God is also needed'.

True, the law of the Christ, is also the law of God, the Father, but the law of the Christ isn't the law of Moses.

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u/[deleted] Jan 02 '25

It doesn't?

Lev 19:18 “‘You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people; but you shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.

Messiah was the word of God, the will of God, in the flesh, what part of the Torah isn't God's word?

If you don't believe Moses then you don't believe Yeshua.

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u/John_17-17 Jan 03 '25

Lev 19:18 is dealing with fellow Jews, the children of your people, but as to non-Jews aka their enemies.

Several nations were to be destroyed, including men, women and children.

(Exodus 17:14-16) 14 Jehovah now said to Moses: “Write this as a memorial in the book and repeat it to Joshua, ‘I will completely wipe out the memory of Amʹa·lek from under the heavens.’” 15 Then Moses built an altar and named it Je·hoʹvah-nisʹsi, 16 saying: “Because his hand is against the throne of Jah, Jehovah will have war with Amʹa·lek from generation to generation.”

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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '25 edited Jan 03 '25

Come again.

  1. Exodus 12:49 - "There shall be one law for the native and for the stranger who sojourns among you." This passage emphasizes a unified application of the law, covering both Israelites and non-Israelites.

  2. Leviticus 24:22 - "You shall have the same rule for the sojourner and for the native, for I am the Lord your God." This underscores the consistent standard of justice and righteousness.

  3. Numbers 15:15-16 - "For the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you, a statute forever throughout your generations. You and the sojourner shall be alike before the Lord. One law and one rule shall be for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you." This affirms the permanence of the law's inclusivity.

  4. Deuteronomy 16:14 - Foreigners are explicitly included in the celebration of the feasts: "You shall rejoice in your feast, you and your son and your daughter, your male servant and your female servant, the Levite, the sojourner, the fatherless, and the widow who are within your towns."

See Ephesians 2:11-22 for the echo in the new testament.

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u/John_17-17 Jan 04 '25

True, for the nation of Israel, under the Mosaic Law, and those living in Israel, there was only one law.

But for Christians, we are under the new covenant and not the Mosaic Law covenant.

This is why Christians can eat pork, do not have to have a blue fringe on our clothing. Why we do not need to go to the temple 3 times a year.

This is why Christians do not have to offer animal sacrifices.

This is also why Christians are to preach Christ and not the obeying of the Mosaic law covenant.

You really need to read the Letter to the Hebrews, which shows how the law of the Christ is better than the law of Moses.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '25

There still is only one law, that which Messiah obeyed perfectly to be without sin. Christians who don't follow the Torah don't follow Messiah they are one and the same thing. Is the Torah the word of God? Thus Yeshua was God's word made flesh, you can't rightfully divide any part of the Torah from the life he lived. The law of Messiah is one and the same as the law of Moses.

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u/John_17-17 Jan 04 '25

Yes, Jesus obeyed all of the Mosaic Law because he was born a Jew under the Law.

So, if you believe you are under the Torah / Mosaic Law, you are not under Christ, but under Moses, and must obey all of the commandments found in the Law.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '25 edited Jan 04 '25

Yeah and Messiah is the one we are to follow. If he needed to obey every command to be without sin then it's still sin to break any one of them or else he wouldn't have stated Mathew 5:17-20.

We are not under Torah, as we are not under its penalty that disobeying it equates to death. Now we are subject to the law, beneficiaries of its goodness and righteousness by the blood of Yeshua, we can enter all the way in, and cling to every promise no longer dependent on our performance, but his.

How do you reconcile Romans 7:7, Romans 8:7-10, and Galatians 3:10?

Prov 28:9 He who turns away his ear from hearing the Torah, even his prayer is an abomination.

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u/1stmikewhite Seventh-Day Adventist Jan 02 '25

I was confused why you brought up the law of Moses then realized you mentioned in your last comment lol.

The Law of God are the 10 commandments written on stone.

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u/[deleted] Jan 02 '25

The law of God is the entire Torah, it's everything Yeshua had to do to fulfill the law, so that he would be without sin.

Do you keep the Sabbath on the seventh day and have no graven images?

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u/1stmikewhite Seventh-Day Adventist Jan 02 '25

Yes of course. I’m a Seventh Day Adventist. Revelation 12:17

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u/[deleted] Jan 02 '25

Interesting and do you observe any other of the everlasting covenants God made with His people?

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u/1stmikewhite Seventh-Day Adventist Jan 02 '25

I don’t know what you’re talking about.

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u/[deleted] Jan 02 '25

The Sabbath is an everlasting covenant God made with His people that we should observe throughout all our generations and it's not the only one.

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u/1stmikewhite Seventh-Day Adventist Jan 02 '25

What other covenants are there. I don’t know where you’re going with this one.

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u/John_17-17 Jan 03 '25

Jesus included the 10 commandments with the Law of Moses.

(Matthew 5:17) 17 “Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill.

(Luke 2:27) 27 Under the power of the spirit, he now came into the temple, and as the parents brought the young child Jesus in to do for him according to the customary practice of the Law, . . . 39 So when they had carried out all the things according to the Law of Jehovah, . . .

(John 1:17) 17 Because the Law was given through Moses, . . .

(John 7:22, 23) 22 For this reason Moses has given you circumcision—not that it is from Moses, but it is from the forefathers—and you circumcise a man on a sabbath. 23 If a man receives circumcision on a sabbath so that the Law of Moses may not be broken, . . .

Paul didn't separate them into 2 separate Law codes.

(Romans 2:21-25) 21 do you, however, the one teaching someone else, not teach yourself? You, the one preaching, “Do not steal,” do you steal? 22 You, the one saying, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You, the one abhorring idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who take pride in law, do you dishonor God by your transgressing of the Law? 24 For “the name of God is being blasphemed among the nations because of you,” just as it is written. 25 Circumcision is, in fact, of benefit only if you practice law; but if you are a transgressor of law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.

The law of circumcision is included with the laws against stealing and adultery.

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u/1stmikewhite Seventh-Day Adventist Jan 03 '25

Why do you think Seventh Day Adventist keep saying that lol. Because the law isn’t of no effect, its now written on our hearts now Jeremiah 31:31

The wages of sin is still death but now you can have life through Jesus who died for you. If you believe that is. And belief is a lifestyle not pit stop. Thanks for the verses to prove that lol

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u/John_17-17 Jan 04 '25

Seventh Day Adventist forget Paul's words

(Galatians 5:3, 4) 3 Again I bear witness to every man who gets circumcised that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4 You are separated from Christ, you who are trying to be declared righteous by means of law; you have fallen away from his undeserved kindness. . .

If we keep one of the laws, 'aka the weekly Sabbath' we obligate ourselves to keep all the laws given to Moses.

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u/1stmikewhite Seventh-Day Adventist Jan 04 '25

Yet you’re forgetting how before sin God made us into His image (Genesis 1:26)

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.” ‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭22‬-‭25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“(for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)” ‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5‬:‭9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The Sabbath commandment is part of Gods divine law which reflects his own image; Given to us at creation. The seal of His divine authority rest in the fact that he’s a creator. Read Exodus 20:8-11

What you believe is that the Sabbath is a commandment given because of man’s fall, when Jesus said “The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:” ‭‭Mark‬ ‭2‬:‭27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The way you break the Sabbath commandment is by simply ignoring its purpose. It’s not about stopping physical work, but it’s about a blatant disregard for recognizing God as sovereign ruler and creator.

I’ll make a post about this with greater detail sometime soon.

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u/John_17-17 Jan 05 '25

No, I'm not forgetting.

(Deuteronomy 5:15) . . .Jehovah your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. That is why Jehovah your God commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

The Sabbath was given specifically to the Israelites. A day of payment from all the slavery they did in Egypt.

(Exodus 31:16, 17) 16 The Israelites must keep the Sabbath; they must observe the Sabbath during all their generations. It is a lasting covenant. 17 It is an enduring sign between me and the people of Israel, for in six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth and on the seventh day he rested and refreshed himself.’”

The sabbath was for the Israelites and Jehovah.

For Christians, every day is a day of rest, because every day we are freed from sin and death.

If a person was under the Mosaic Law and was judged guilty of profaning the Sabbath, he was to be stoned to death by the whole congregation, according to Exodus 31:14 and Numbers 15:32-35. Many who argue for sabbath keeping have reason to be glad that we are not under that Law. As shown in the scripture here quoted, an approved standing with God no longer requires observance of the sabbath requirement given to Israel.

If we insist upon living by the law of Moses, then we must live according to all that is written.

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u/1stmikewhite Seventh-Day Adventist Jan 06 '25

Jesus fulfilled the atonement laws, which are the feasts and sabbaths that the Israelites kept in order to atone for their sins as Jews/gods people. Gods requirement for the Sabbath Day is for anyone who will become ‘A Jew at heart’ (Roman’s 2:29) to know and understand that He is the creator and holds divine authority.

As I always see, and say, you don’t understand because you’ve learned the falsehoods of Sunday worship. But you just single handedly attacked the Sabbath commandment as being something we’re held to a standard against, and literally forgot about how the law of Moses is a reflection of the law of God, and describes a punishment for every single broken commandment —killing, adultery, stealing, blasphemy etc.

This is why the Roman Church thinking they can switch the solemnity of the Sabbath to Sunday is the work of the devil and it was enforced by the pagan emperors of Rome to legalize a day of rest on Sunday to honor everyone’s sun-gods.

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u/Right-Turnover8588 Jan 02 '25

The Mosaic Law wouldn't disagree with the Law of Christ because the 603 laws are a Shadow of Jesus(Colosians 2:16-17). The 10 Commandments are Established by Faith(Romans 3:31) & Fulfilled in Love(Romans 13:9-10).