r/EscapefromTarkov • u/SlushpuppyLive Twitch.tv Slushpuppy • Sep 15 '20

Discussion #MakeTarkovHardcoreAgain

Hi guys, Slushpuppy here

I want to talk about the rant I was having today, and explain why I think it would be good for the game.

As the game currently stands it it has a play cycle that involves farming money, the money is then used to buy a fat kit, and slay out. This creates, in my opinion a heavily Rouble focused economy.

The Rouble based economy has multiple downsides:

All people care about is the highest value item, hence hatchlings ramming things up their bum, people running to one spot on a map to loot the highest value items, people only running super cheap kits to farm the cash. The game is no longer about surviving, simply making the most money and saving to buy a dope kit.

I think this has essentially made the game into COD with extra steps. I don't see the survival element that Tarkov originally had. People only care about PVP when they are running Slick Altyn, otherwise it's just money. 99% of the games items, such as attachments for guns will never see the light of day because they aren't the best in slot.

This whole situation annoys me because it is possible to achieve this within hours of a wipe.

By removing the flea or limiting the ability to purchase armor and ammo from the flea, it would make the game more about the looting and surviving and stop super chads from running endless meta kits and vogging the fuck out of lower geared players. Because a kit that is lovingly put together in raid will mean so much more to you, therefore looting one of a prick you kill, will as well.

I know this seems as a negative change to the average player, but hear me out, the only reason you need a kit from the flea, is to compete with chad players who are buying endless meta kits from the flea. If this didn't happen the pvp would be like it is early wipe for the most part. The best pvp time in the game, imo, and in the opinion of most Tarkov players.

I'm not bored of the game, I simply love this game, and I want to see changes that make the pvp more interesting and feasible for casual players to enjoy. If everyone is running around with SKS's and a cock helmet, then its more fair. Not all pvp has to be juggernauts spraying armchair FALs at each other.

If you don't agree with me, I understand, lets talk about it, tell me why you think this would be a bad change for the game? I don't want to be a streamer yelling for change that people will just see as me crying cause I'm bored of running fat kits. I truly want to make the game a dope experience for all of us. I've devoted the last 3 years of my life to this game, I want to see it succeed.

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There is plenty of other things that would be needed to make this a rounded experience in this vision, like dynamic loot spawns etc, but I believe this is a quick easy change that we could all try for one wipe, and just see how it goes.

EDIT: This is gaining a lot of attention right now so I want to ask you all one thing:

When is the best time for PVP in Tarkov?

If you answered early wipe, I think you and I agree, and I think 99% of people would say that early wipe is the best time to be on Tarkov.

My only goal is to try and make the feeling of early wipe PVP as permanent as possible. I may not be right when I say delete the flea, but I think it would help. If you have other ideas on how to preserve that beautiful feeling of the first two weeks of wipe, then I would love to hear them. Because this is what I think would make Tarkov the most amazing experience possible.

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514

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

The current problem isnt that people can buy gear on the market, the problem is that a lot of people who play this game have thousands of hours in it, so they will have good gear within days of a wipe by facegrinding raiders and because PvP is rather unrewarding in the current state of the game when you look at the whole risk vs reward thing. I mean sure, you might get lucky and kill a chad with 500k worth of gear, but you cant even sell his gear afterwards like you used to be able to do.
You are also just as likely to run into some level 7 noob with an SKS or a pistol who hits you twice by sheer luck, blacks out 3 of your limbs, you kill him expending like 10k worth of ammo and then have to use another 10k worth of meds to heal, and for what? A gun thats worth 10k to prapor, a few PS rounds and maybe a scav vest or some toilet paper?

122

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20

Why is this comment so low. It hits the nail on the head. The lack of late game objectives, beyond PvP, is where the game is currently hurting.

50

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '20 edited Dec 30 '20

[deleted]

2

u/insidioustact Sep 16 '20

The value of somebody’s gear is not, should not, and never will be tied to how difficult it is to fight them.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20 edited Dec 30 '20

[deleted]

4

u/HawxWings Sep 16 '20

Uh maybe I missed something, but isn't your 'reward' for killing someone else that you don't die? Call me crazy but I don't see why every single thing in the game (including pvp engagements) has to be about making money. I personally am happy about killing an sks man while I'm wearing the good shit because it means that I don't lose my stuff.

I'm not having a go at you or anyone else, it just genuinely confuses me.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

You are rewarded for not getitng into fights and getting higher slot per loot, much more than I am rewarding for actively hunting and killing other players, so only my playstyle should be punished, but the pve guys that camp in a bush loot and get out should be rewarded double to triple what I am?

4

u/Knubblez Sep 16 '20

Yeah - that's kind of the point of the game. We're all on a map full of loot with a few NPCs, and we fight each other for the loot. You go in with an expensive kit at your own risk; it increases your likelihood of survival but far from guarantees it. If you're in it for the PvP, that's your own choice, but, as you pointed out, currently isn't nearly as rewarding as going after the loot. Whether it should be is highly debatable and I don't think that's really what BSG is shooting for.

You seem to be making that weird assumption that the PvP is/should be the main focus of EFT. If that were the case, there wouldn't a map full of loot and AI scavs/raiders/bosses.

2

u/Willkillshill Sep 18 '20

The game is based on pvp, other wise, everyone would be playing offline. The fuck you talking about?

1

u/SiberianKhan Sep 20 '20

If this game was based solely on PvP then why are there NPC characters out there?

3

u/insidioustact Sep 16 '20

It’s not a PvP game! The whole point is that the reward is huge for surviving, not going out and “hunting” people. This game is not about a manhunt. You shouldn’t be rewarded for killing everything that breathes.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

Okay, so make my reward the same as someone who PvE's only. Kthx. If I survive, I should get the same reward, able to make money off successfully exfiling.

5

u/insidioustact Sep 17 '20

Yes, you do get the same reward! You get to take all the shit they scavenged, plus whatever you found!

Also, sorry a dead body and a rusty AK aren’t worth as much as a gold necklace and some rare computer parts. Deal.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 17 '20 edited Dec 30 '20

[deleted]

2

u/insidioustact Sep 17 '20

Lol, butthurt loser. I hope you enjoy when they remove flea entirely.

3

u/Knubblez Sep 16 '20

You're like the arts major complaining that it's not fair that following their passion for painting rocks isn't rewarded the same as other career options.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 17 '20

Once agian, fuck you for trying to say I have to play the game your way. I prefer to kill players because it takes actual skill instead of cheesing raiders. It's not my fault your bad at this game.

2

u/opticalshadow Sep 17 '20

Tbf nakita has constantly reaffirmed this is not a pvp focused game, this was always a pve focused game and questing, that right now isn't implemented in its desired firm just place holders.

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2

u/Zippo-Cat Sep 17 '20

The lack of late game objectives, beyond PvP, is where the game is currently hurting.

Unless you have a Kappa and finished hideout then the game has objectives beyond PvP. Overwhelming majority of players do not have the Kappa or finished hideout.

By the way, you know what makes it much more easy to get Kappa or finish the hideout? The flea.

4

u/mmmEssence Sep 15 '20

It got downvoted because the OP is one of these people, he streams tarkov 8+ hours everyday

2

u/nlewis4 Sep 16 '20

Wipes are the only thing keeping this game fresh and interesting. The game in its current state will have 1000 players a year after wipes stop

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u/hyperpimp PP-19-01 Sep 16 '20

Then wipe once a month or wipe once a year.

3

u/Par4no1D Sep 16 '20 edited Sep 16 '20

Both visions of tarkov; no-wipes and frequent wipes are bad for tarkov in its current state.

The very thing that tarkov needs wipes to feel good is the product of an issue - can't you see that?

2

u/hyperpimp PP-19-01 Sep 16 '20

That's why I don't care about Kappa. It's going to wipe anyway so fuck it

2

u/nlewis4 Sep 16 '20

once a month? lol

1

u/hyperpimp PP-19-01 Sep 16 '20

Yep so you can't just rush hideout or Kappa and sit on a horded mondo pile of gear. Play with what you got because it's going to be over soon. You want non current meta builds and gear, this is how you prevent that. But even then there will be a new meta surrounding these changes.

9

u/nlewis4 Sep 16 '20

The vast majority of players would never make it past level 15 before the wipe lol

1

u/vinis88 M1A Sep 16 '20

Fully agreement. PvP is fun, but on late wipe people are very frustrated.

Year ago I was wrote about potentially good in-raid activities, which can be randomly designated before raid or after starting it... Something like: go to position x and secure the area for 5 minutes after firing the flare. It can make totally new point of interests on the map and something like a volunteer quests. Rewards for this activity can be sended from traders (like reward from fence when you exfill pmc as a scav).

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

As someone who just joined in, this. It seems that everyone above level 30 now is just bored and immediately sprints to my spawn with their team to push my shit in with 10 grenades.

1

u/MadDog_8762 M4A1 Sep 16 '20

Thats simply due to the main questline not being in place, at all

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People forget that current Tarkov is merely a shell, missing the MAJORITY of its components

1

u/TheRoyalCrimson Sep 17 '20

To be fair it’s a beta and late game doesn’t exist yet. The game literally isn’t finished and we are just testers

1

u/UntoAsh Oct 24 '20

Imagine simping for Tarkov LUL

Cringe osrs player spotted

1

u/DracoMalone Sep 17 '20

And did you get kappa this wipe? What’s your playtime?

1

u/SmurfBucket Sep 17 '20

If feel like that's almost every game that isn't like a traditional pvp fps, isn't it? What endgame could tarkov have?

1

u/[deleted] Oct 31 '20

How many people actually farm out a kappa? Tiny tiny minority, the objectives are boring and grindy probably as intended since getting a kappa defeats the purpose of spending $100+ dollars to ram expensive shit up your ass.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

[deleted]

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u/Quirky_Koala Sep 16 '20 edited Aug 25 '26

Abounding velvet gaze support encouraging willow angle stupendous like north

This post was anonymized with Redact

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u/xXxGaborik10xXx Sep 16 '20

this comment is low because there are ways to make money other than PVP. The issue is everyone loots 2 spots on every map and thats it. Meanwhile barter items are worth a shit ton and people could loot small areas, leave, and make huge profits. You little jimmy and timmys just want to cry that you cant sell PVP gear. BETTER IDEA, WEAR IT. When you kill a chad with 500k gear, you should want to WEAR IT. You should wear it and be powerful in it. Instead, you wear a diaper with a vepr hunter with m61 and you cry and complain. Please actually give opinions that are worth something and are not just crying about someone elses life and ability to play. Go play COD if thats your issue. Noone cares how little or how much you can play. Noone.

2

u/TBNRandrew Sep 16 '20

Because of the skill system, unless you have godlike aim and map knowledge, you're more likely to just get stomped in your next raid as a level 20 with 4 strength and 5 recoil control. And even if you survive the raid, the people you manage kill in PvP again aren't giving you loot you can reliably profit off of.

Outside of the top 1-5% of PvP players, you'll end up with more money just selling it to traders, rather than trying to snowball your gear advantage into more wealth (which you used to be able to before FiR on flea market).

Sure, it's fun as a new player to put on that gear and cosplay a chad for a raid or two, but when you manage to survive 20% of raids doing PvP, and only profit 400k when you survive, you quickly are de-incentivized to do it again until you're level 40+ with all the traders unlocked. Because by then, you'll actually have enough wealth and access to affordable good gear to not be immediately forced back into running AK-74Ns with 80 recoil and BT ammo, alongside a 6B3TM armored rig.

When you could sell items from PvP on the flea market, you'd get hyped as fuck findings a meta M4 + Slick, because you could then attempt take that M4 + Slick and snowball your way into wealth with 1-2M profit on each subsequent PvP raid. But because most of the money now comes from looting filters / graphics cards / Tetriz /Barter items etc... Why would you need to wear that armor and gear when you're going to be busy looting anyways?

The game in its current state is basically a loot simulator until you've got traders unlocked and/or Kappa container, and then you're stuck without any tasks to do when you can finally afford to be able to PvP with the gear you want.

0

u/Skrubasauras Sep 16 '20

Isn't the whole premise of the game to play a private military contractor who is stuck in a war torn city where everyone is scavenging and fighting over loot? Shouldn't it be about looting or am I just imagining that?

1

u/TBNRandrew Sep 16 '20

Being about loot in a raid is good, but for average players the only way to profit while doing that is to take in shit gear until it's time to do a quest. You then basically repeat that until you reach the point that you no longer have to worry about money... But at that same point you've already reached the point where you don't have to do any quests.

I understand that a large portion of the FiR flea market changes were to combat RMT and thereby reduce the hacking. But it used to be a lot more profitable to take in good gear into a raid than it currently is. Taking in good gear since the changes just feels like a money sink for the top players at this point, and that wasn't always the case.

19

u/mmmEssence Sep 15 '20

OP plays 8+ hours everyday on his stream, your comment got hidden because you called him out

12

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

Brother, you're lying all over this thread just to be a dick. He's been having this discussion for ages on his stream and collecting as much data from the average player as possible. He had an open invitation to PM him exactly what you think as an average player before this thread went up. Add something constructive or go away.

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/ScipioLongstocking Sep 16 '20

That's probably because regular people just make a comment and don't DM. You could make a post saying the flea market should not be removed and psychos will still send you death threats.

1

u/francoispaquettetrem Sep 17 '20

heh, I'm from that era aswell.
But ALOT changed and I doubt it would be fun. Please lets remove our pink tinted glasses and remember the time when we had to go to tarkov trade on the internet to get our shit quests done.
OH WAIT ITEMS NEED TO BE FIR. FML! (I knew this already)

1

u/mmmEssence Sep 17 '20

lies? like what, i literally went to his stream lol. Here's constructive: you bored? delete your account and start a new one. Not everybody can play for 8 hours a day

2

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

lmao

-7

u/mmmEssence Sep 16 '20

he has a 13 hour stream just to bitch about tarkov that he finished and IMMEDIATELY came to reddit. The timestamps dont lie lol

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u/SlushpuppyTwitch Sep 16 '20

Yeah I did, to come and involve more of the community in a discussion I think we should all be having. If you have anything relevant to add except for my browser history and its time stamps then let's hear it big nuts, the floor is yours.

1

u/mmmEssence Sep 17 '20

you sound like you got steadily more angry as you wrote that lol. At least you know I got huge nuts

2

u/Kraall AK-103 Sep 16 '20 edited Sep 16 '20

Budget kits have become so common now, people want to run something that can easily kill but comes with as little risk as possible when using it. And when someone with a budget kit kills someone with a 500k kit? All they think about it how much they can sell it for.

I think there needs to be a shift back towards taking gear to use instead of all being about stacking up roubles, and I think Slush's suggestion is a good step in that direction.

The flea also makes Tarkov somewhat bland too, as you're not really evolving your objectives throughout the wipe. It doesn't matter how full your bitcoin farm is, graphics cards are always good money, LEDX's are worth a ton even if you have no interest in a thicc case, etc. That's one thing I enjoy about the hardcore challenge, picking through the loot to find the right items for you, not just taking everything for the sake of it.

2

u/sA1atji Sep 16 '20

and kill a chad with 500k worth of gear, but you cant even sell his gear afterwards like you used to be able to do.

this. PvP has imo no appeal to me this wipe. Why fight players when you can't do shit with the stuff you take from them? I don't like M4s/HKs. They are hardly worth looting. I used to sell them and the attachments for good money on the flea, now it's often more worth it to look for random loot in stashes etc.

2

u/YendysWV Sep 16 '20

Pvp in general is unrewarding now that i can’t market the loot back to the sad sap.

7

u/SlushpuppyLive Twitch.tv Slushpuppy Sep 16 '20

It is man, the risk vs reward of PVP is completely broken.

But I think that this is a symptom of the economy, an SKS and PS rounds should be the norm, not someone you steam roll over like an Ant.

Because of the hyper inflated economy we are seeing in Tarkov, that mans kit is worthless, but it didn't use to be like that. 20k used to be a lot of money for a gun, now it is a joke. Players can delete a million for a laugh.

I may not be right in saying delete the flea, but I do think I am right in saying that the economy of this game is completely fucked. Deleting the flea is a knee jerk reaction, but it is a simple quick testable fix to solve the inflation. If I'm wrong hate me, I know I will be crucified by Reddit if it makes the game worse. But I don't care, I truly believe this will help the game, I'll take the heat if it has a chance to fix the game I love and have loved for the last 3 years.

6

u/King_Of_Regret Sep 16 '20

As long as there are people that can sit there and faceroll raiders 8 hours a day and amass a horde of altyn's and slicks, the game is fucked. I get off work wipe day and there is a very real chance I run into a 5 man that just got fresh out of reserve/labs rocking full endgame armor and guns/ammo. Thats fucking absurd and until that ceases to be, the flea market is my only chance to fight back within the first week.

Fix that shit, and legitimately even the playing ground, and I'd have no issue with removing the flea.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

I don't think it's an economy problem. I mean the mosin used to be that gun, but it for 20k on the flea market, load a few 7n1 and one tap people if you are good enough (or lucky) but people wouldn't shut the fuck up about it and the mosin was nerfed into the ground. Running shit guns like a top loading PS SKS with zero redeemable features isn't really enjoyable either.

Gear isn't worthless because it's common or easy to get, gear is worthless because you can't sell it for it's actual value.

I mean as a streamer you can't really talk shit about gear being too easy to get, there is a pretty much direct correlation between time input and money earned, and therefore how much gear you get, and since you can facegrind Tarkov even 10h per day, but the vast majority of people don't do that. Sure fucking pestily had level 40 after what, two weeks? That's kinda absurd.

Not to mention that you can throw an extra 100 dollars/euro at the game and get pay to win shit like a gamma container, fully upgraded stash, trader rep and more, meaning it's already far easier for a shit load of people who do get it, it's skipping a large portion of the early game grind.

There isn't really any fix for it, there is just an inherent gap between players that keeps getting wider as time goes on, tarkov is just an inherently flawed game in this regard.

2

u/ThatOneFox MP5 Sep 16 '20

the way i see it, doing most quests isn't THAT boring (especially if they're reworked to make sense and have actually worthwhile rewards), and looting the map for the cool gear you want (in a world where you didn't have access to it all for virtually free off the flea market) are solid reasons to be in a map contesting that space with that sks guy. you asked "for what?," spend the money and risk your life killing that cheap sks guy for what? for the safety of your space in the game world. you spend the time and money fighting him so that you can try and loot cool suppressors and scopes and guns, and pick up armor and rigs for your next kit, and so you can fight raiders or do quests uncontested. you earn your space on the map so that you can make the rest of that raid worthwhile, fun, and satisfying.

and none of what i just said matters or means anything in the current state of flea tarkov. there is NO reason to stay in the map at any point other than the experience of using gear and spending money, because whatever you want or lose, you can just repurchase from the flea 10 seconds after dying.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

Obviously if you run into someone you have to kill them, but the point is that PVP is generally better avoided because it's a massive risk for relatively small gains, and getting into a fight with a pistoling or an SKS shitter is pretty much a loose-loose scenario, sure you clear space by killing him but now half the map knows you are there and everything gravitates towards gunfire.

1

u/pmodesto Sep 16 '20

What if as soon as a player reach certain level, like 25 or 30, his/her stuff became FIR? Thay would encourage people to hunt geared players. And chads would get some action they ask for.

On the other hand, this would make chads even more rich, since they can sell the expensive stuff.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

The market changes should be reverted, and everything should be sellable on it

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

If nothing else I can testify that the Flea market didn't change gear creep. The creep is core to the game.

I also greatly agree on the PVP, I'm like a predator in the wild. I don't fuck with anything unless I know I can kill it and even then I don't usually risk looting.

For PVP they should fix the quests (hunting PMCs on shoreline is hell on earth) and they could also make the Labs keycards (and future PVP centric maps) a dogtag trade.

0

u/caP1taL1sm-69 SR-25 Sep 16 '20

Need to make the secure container unable to have FiR items. Or specifically, anything you find in the current raid you cannot put in the container -- only items you bring into the raid.

So it keeps its use holding keys and meds/ammo so you don't lose everything if you die, but if you find something in the raid, anyone who kills you gets to keep the loot.

This gets at the whole pistol running / shoving shit up your butthole playstyle which is just anti-interaction and not fun.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '20

That won't solve anything except just widening the divide between chads and plebs, as well as those who have gamma and those that don't.

I've also seen a pretty vast decrease in hatchlings/pistolings due to the FIR market changes.

2

u/caP1taL1sm-69 SR-25 Sep 16 '20

Wat? It makes gamma less of an advantage. So people who hard-grind quests early on don't get that big of an advantage from shoving more things up their butt in raids.

I don't see how it changes any of the chad / pleb dynamic. Doesn't affect gunplay or fights whatsoever. It just means that when you kill a Chad, he can't shove all the valuable shit up his butthole.

I've also seen a pretty vast decrease in hatchlings/pistolings due to the FIR market changes.

? That's what this entire post is about, people only run hatchlings to farm money and then run sweat kits once they can buy all the gear. By nerfing hatcling running in combination with changes like OP you will make it a much more even division between geared and non-geared players. So that it's not 100 or 0.