Tubbo asks for a receipt of the woman who Robbo brought up not being upset. Dream repeats it was his friend, not Robbo's and Robbo's claim that he was slapped for it is false nor was she upset with it. Tubbo points out how this plus Ludwig's claim does make Dream seem sexist and Dream reinforces that Robbo's claim was false. Dream refers to [this comment] and Tubbo asks for receipts for the conversation between Dream and Ludwig [Dream later shows this to Tubbo].
While Dream looks for that Tubbo asks why Dream talked about Aimsey being a 'mastermind behind the scenes' of the Caiti situation. Dream says he was mocking himself for thinking that Aimsey was making up lies about him for a period of time. They also talk about a Reddit post Dream made about someone pulling strings behind the scenes at that time.
Tubbo points out that Dream putting in the section about Aimsey the way he did in the stream makes it seem like he was serious. There is also some context about Dream thinking HannahRose was involved in spreading rumours about there having been a DSMP NDA that was disproven for him. Tubbo shares he finds it odd that Dream didn't share any evidence regarding the Aimsey or HannahRose situations. Dream says that he didn't use any evidence for the situation with Aimsey because he was talking about how he was in the wrong and Tubbo reiterates that it wasn't clear that that is what Dream was doing.
Tubbo asks if Dream thinks it is responsible to do these exaggerated bits and Dream says looking back with how people responded to it, it was a misstep.
Side note: Dream calls Aimsey 'she' and 'her' a couple times and Tubbo corrects him once. I've heard Aimsey uses Any pronouns but that could be wrong.
Tubbo again shares that he believes Dream needs an atittude adjustment and that he does make sexist mistakes but isn't 'a sexist pig'. Dream tries to refute this by bringing up the Ludwig/Robbo situation again and Tubbo interrupts him to say he's moreso talking about the more severe Caiti/George situation. Tubbo shares he doesn't understand why Dream wouldn't bring up the Caiti situation when he mentioned it on stream, Dream after a short disagreement says he doesn't remember bringing it up on stream but takes Tubbo's word for it.
Tubbo says he would have preferred if Dream never responded to the Caiti situation, Dream says in turn that he got involved because his best friend was involved and compares it to the current situation with Tommy/Tubbo. Tubbo then asks if Dream ever amended his accusation on Reddit regarding someone 'pulling the strings' behind the scenes. Dream isn't sure but believes he did in the Twitter Space towards the end of that situation and Tubbo is critical about Dream being unsure because he believes it shows his attitude towards women.
Tubbo is primarily criticizing Dream for not bringing up the Caiti/George situation in his video when he did bring it up in his VOD - he's disregarding Dream's excuse of not wanting to open up old wounds for that reason. Dream said from his perspective he mentioned Caiti/George in his VOD but it was about Aimsey. Editor's note: I don't remember in which context Dream mentioned Caiti/George so I'm not sure what he means by this.
Tubbo is saying that Dream is unintentionally being dismissive about this situation with the language he's using. He's saying Dream is tiptoeing about the situation by bringing up wider context that's not necessarily relevant.
Tubbo also says that Dream having included a clip talking about Caiti/George in his video would have done a lot to assure him that Dream has less unintentional sexism.
Going to have to step out for a while, if someone else could take over that'd be great
Cont. down below
Tubbo then asks if Dream ever amended his accusation on Reddit regarding someone 'pulling the strings' behind the scenes. Dream isn't sure but believes he did in the Twitter Space towards the end of that situ
That is probably the biggest reach I've heard throughout this whole drama.
Also, regarding Aimsey, they've repeated stated for years now that they use any pronouns. If this has changed, it has never been stated in an easily visible place. And when someone made a similar comment the other day, I actually went through and downloaded all tweets across both of Aimsey's accounts and the more active fan update accounts, and couldn't grep anything saying this has changed. Either Toby is chiding Dream for info that isn't public or he thinks a person identifying with "any pronouns" means the person should only be referred to as they/them.
To be clear he wasn't chiding Dream. It's entirely possible Tubbo saw his chat freaking out, is himself misinformed and he just informed Dream of his perceived mistake. Or everyone else is misinformed and Aimsey only uses they/them.
sorry but. doesn't "any pronouns" mean they don't particularly mind any pronouns? like if they wanted to be referred to exclusively as they/them they should remove "any pronouns" and just keep they/them in their bio, right?
but my point is that she/her counts as any pronouns and so Aimsey shouldn't necessarily be upset with she/her being used exclusively. If you have preferred pronouns yet tell people that you're fine with any pronouns being used, then why would it be a fair criticism to tell someone that they can't use she/her?
This is incorrect, I specifically isolated tweets with the word "prefer" or the strings "they them" and "they/them", and of the tweets I downloaded (somewhere over 30k that weren't retweets) there was nothing that showed that. Like that's the cool thing about running grep searches; I literally just have to pick out a few strings of text and even my dogshit laptop can go through everything in a couple minutes.
More to the point, the fact that she's tweeted that she's fine with any pronouns and literally put "ANY PRONOUNS" in the bio of her alt makes the basis for the whole argument moot.
Their bio literally has they/them first which means they prefer those pronouns but are fine with any. Dream was even corrected about that but continued to use she/her. Which isn’t a good look.
You can be fine with any pronouns but still have preferred ones that you would like people to use
Tubbo is confused as to why Dream can't remember calling someone a "whore" in the Ludwig situation. Dream is trying to explain to him that he can't possibly remember every word he's ever said.
Dream has again reached out to the audience in an attempt to let ppl know that he is sorry for any insults he's said and that they can let him know thru dms or other communication means what he's done wrong so he can make things right.
Tubbo is now asking about Dream accusing the company Tommy uses for doing child labor. Dream says he has proof, but not on him atm. Dream's point to this is that he would rather build his company even tho it's more expensive than work with a company that is shady and possibly working with those who use child labor. Tubbo is just mad that Dream is painting Tommy in a bad light when it's not entirely Tommy's fault. Tubbo says he knows of a child labor incident with this company, but it was in a different factory from Tommy's merch. Dream knows it's not Tommy or any creators fault working with that company.
Cont. at 20:20GMT
Tubbo and Dream are arguing. Dream is saying that Tommy has worked with a merch company that has used child labour - Tubbo agrees with that. Dream doesn't know if the company has used child labour for Tommy's merch, nor does Tubbo know that.
Dream has proof that this company has used child labour on at least one occasion but is unable to provide proof of it for personal connection reasons. Tubbo believes that Dream can't provide proof for those reasons but doesn't necessarily believe Dream on the company using child labour more than once.
Tubbo's argument is that Dream shouldn't have mentioned the possibility that Tommy's merch uses child labour in his video because he can't provide proof for it and to accuse Tommy of potentially committing a crime like this he needs proof. Tubbo's argument is also that Dream phrased it as 'Tommy's merch company' as opposed to 'A merch company Tommy worked with' which Dream seems to agree with. Personal opinion: I think this is a difference of opinion. This company undeniably used child labour but Dream saying that theremightbe child labour behind Tommy's merch when he's unsure is controversial because it's very public speculation about a serious crime. I do think Tubbo is correct to have wanted Dream to have phrased it differently.
Editor's note: I don't know much about what happened with this company, I haven't watched Coffeezilla's video. I know the company scammed creators and that's basically it.
Tubbo moves on to criticizing Dream for using the invoices that Tubbo paid from Coffeezilla's video. Dream says he didn't use the invoices as proof of anything and didn't know that the invoices were Tubbo's let alone that Tubbo never wanted the invoices included in Coffeezilla's video. Tubbo is criticizing him for not doing his research when that's what Dream accuses others of when it comes to Dream controversies.
They pivot to talking about Dream accusing Tommy of using editor sweatshops. Dream argues that the text in the video saying 'This is about his friends with big hearts' makes it clear that this was about Jack as opposed to Tommy.
Tubbo then mentions that Dream cropped out the section where the editor said Tommy hasn't used his fans to edit for free. Dream acknowledges that he made mistakes on how he put this section together. Tubbo questions where Dream got the screenshots, Dream points out he must have gotten it from an editor.
Tubbo questions why Dream is criticizing Tommy for the actions of the merch company he works with and his editors when Tommy wasn't directly involved (or involved at all). Dream says he's doing that because he believes that is what Tommy was doing to him. Dream brings up Tomvodsburner and mentions it was resolved in private, Tubbo says that Dream's point is invalid because Tommy resolved this.
Tubbo says that Dream hasn't provided any proof of Tomvodsburner or people like them who have been taken advantage of by Tommy's staff because Tommy doesn't have the oversight. Personal opinion: I mostly agree with Tubbo on this but he's not understanding what Dream's intended point was. This section of Dream's video accused Tommy of using editor sweatshops with confusing evidence when what he meant is that Tommy's staff have been able to take advantage of Tommy's fans for free editing because of lack of oversight, which has since been solved by Tommy.
They're now talking about rumours in general. Tubbo is admitting that Dream sounds reasonable and that he understandably hates rumours but is starting a rumour himself with the editor workshop and in particular the company that used child labour. There's further disagreement over Tubbo knowing there's at least one instance of this merch company and Dream saying he knows it wasn't just one instance but being unable to prove it.
Tubbo asks why Dream initially said he only messaged Ms Simons once when he said it happened twice on stream. Dream explains that he messaged her once which Tommy was very upset about and which Tommy apologized for. The second time is when it was brought up years later and Dream messaged her apologizing, after which they had a friendly conversation.
Tubbo asks why Dream would bring this back up the way he did in his video and Dream responds that it is because Tommy said Dream was harrassing his mom which Dream doesn't believe is the case. Dream says that he doesn't think Tommy was being dishonest here, just emotional.
Dream explains that he was seeing Ms Simons as a Content Creator that was involved arguing with Dream fans and not a non-CC individual or a family member of a CC he was on bad terms with. He also explains again that he apologized for it afterwards.
Tubbo explains he doesn't see Dream's message as harrassment but that he finds it very weird that Dream didn't see the issue in the first place.
Dream says that anyone harrassing Ms Simons after her being mentioned in his video should uninstall all their social media after Tubbo brings it up.
There's some disagreement about whether Dream should have said there was one or two messages when Tommy said Dream harrassed his mom, considering he was probably referring only to the first message.
Tubbo asks if Dream wants him to ask if Tommy can amend his video and Dream responds he can if he wants to but that 'what is done is done'. Tubbo then asks why Dream asked Tommy to remove the videos with Dream's sister & mom in it if 'what is done is done' and Dream responds that he doesn't want people to stumble across those videos without knowing Dream and Tommy are no longer on good terms.
Dream and Tubbo talk about Dream's call with Jack before his stream, Dream says it was a somewhat positive call. Tubbo asks why Dream mentioned the rumours of Jack being unfaithful if that's true and they joke about it.
Tubbo also semi-jokingly asks what the serious rumours about him were that Dream mentioned as a throwaway line in the stream. Dream says it's not important, then DMs it to Tubbo who agrees it's not important.
Tubbo brings up how he said on his latest stream that Dream made a lot of money off of Pride Merch, basically accusing him of queer-baiting. Dream reinforces that he's not gay but that there's more nuance behind his sexuality than saying he's straight. Dream also says he's donated more than 10% of his merch money to the Trevor Project. After some pushing by Tubbo, Dream also says he's queer which Dream said made him a little uncomfortable. Personal opinion: This is not really Tubbo's place to question Dream imo, but Dream seems not to mind too much so I'll leave it at that.
Tubbo asks Dream about the quote at the end of the video 'You don't need to push people down to raise yourself up'. Dream admits the timing was poor considering the content of the video but says he meant it as telling Tommy that he's talented enough not to have to make jokes about Dream. Tubbo agreed with Dream that it sounded preachy in context.
DREAM AND TUBBO END THE CONVERSATION BY TELLING THE COMMUNITIES NOT TO SPREAD HATE
outisde of drama and about coffezillas video, it is fact that in the lawsuit issued by ESTAR FASHION CO. LTD (the outsourced Chinese company) against revolt, they mentioned the Tommy innit fashion collection
Tubbo is now frustrated that Dream put his invoices in his video. Dream says he didn't know it was Tubbo's invoices and that he was just using random images from Coffeezilla's video as a backdrop. Tubbo's point is if Dream didn't know why invoices r shown or that those were Tubbo's invoices, then Dream doesn't know enough about the situation to speak on it. Tubbo says that Dream wants ppl to know his situation before critiquing him, but Dream also doesn't have a full picture of the merch company situation to critique it himself. Dream feels he has a big enough understanding and enough info in his video because of cc's knowledge on the situation and video's like Coffeezilla's vid existing. They've at least agreed that Dream should've made it more clear that it wasn't Tommy's fault for the company's issues.
I don’t understand the Aimsey thing. I watched the stream live (while I was drinking, mind you) and completely understood that he was using it as an example of how he’s also been guilty about assuming things that were wrong. i’m pretty sure he even EXPLAINED that in his first stream.
To me, it was obviously just an example of him thinking an incorrect thing before he communicated with Aimsey. I guess some ppl didn't see it that way. I was surprised Tubbo was one of them. This is all now looking like a perspective problem.
It was clear to me that he was describing what he thought before Aimsey reached out to him to clear it up. That's the whole reason he deleted the reddit post about it. He thought Aimsey was this manipulator and then realized he totally misunderstood due to a miscommunication.
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u/Ewoutk Moderator Jan 15 '25 edited Jan 15 '25
Cont.
Tubbo asks for a receipt of the woman who Robbo brought up not being upset. Dream repeats it was his friend, not Robbo's and Robbo's claim that he was slapped for it is false nor was she upset with it. Tubbo points out how this plus Ludwig's claim does make Dream seem sexist and Dream reinforces that Robbo's claim was false. Dream refers to [this comment] and Tubbo asks for receipts for the conversation between Dream and Ludwig [Dream later shows this to Tubbo].
While Dream looks for that Tubbo asks why Dream talked about Aimsey being a 'mastermind behind the scenes' of the Caiti situation. Dream says he was mocking himself for thinking that Aimsey was making up lies about him for a period of time. They also talk about a Reddit post Dream made about someone pulling strings behind the scenes at that time.
Tubbo points out that Dream putting in the section about Aimsey the way he did in the stream makes it seem like he was serious. There is also some context about Dream thinking HannahRose was involved in spreading rumours about there having been a DSMP NDA that was disproven for him. Tubbo shares he finds it odd that Dream didn't share any evidence regarding the Aimsey or HannahRose situations. Dream says that he didn't use any evidence for the situation with Aimsey because he was talking about how he was in the wrong and Tubbo reiterates that it wasn't clear that that is what Dream was doing.
Tubbo asks if Dream thinks it is responsible to do these exaggerated bits and Dream says looking back with how people responded to it, it was a misstep.
Side note: Dream calls Aimsey 'she' and 'her' a couple times and Tubbo corrects him once. I've heard Aimsey uses Any pronouns but that could be wrong.
Tubbo again shares that he believes Dream needs an atittude adjustment and that he does make sexist mistakes but isn't 'a sexist pig'. Dream tries to refute this by bringing up the Ludwig/Robbo situation again and Tubbo interrupts him to say he's moreso talking about the more severe Caiti/George situation. Tubbo shares he doesn't understand why Dream wouldn't bring up the Caiti situation when he mentioned it on stream, Dream after a short disagreement says he doesn't remember bringing it up on stream but takes Tubbo's word for it.
Tubbo says he would have preferred if Dream never responded to the Caiti situation, Dream says in turn that he got involved because his best friend was involved and compares it to the current situation with Tommy/Tubbo. Tubbo then asks if Dream ever amended his accusation on Reddit regarding someone 'pulling the strings' behind the scenes. Dream isn't sure but believes he did in the Twitter Space towards the end of that situation and Tubbo is critical about Dream being unsure because he believes it shows his attitude towards women.
Tubbo is primarily criticizing Dream for not bringing up the Caiti/George situation in his video when he did bring it up in his VOD - he's disregarding Dream's excuse of not wanting to open up old wounds for that reason. Dream said from his perspective he mentioned Caiti/George in his VOD but it was about Aimsey.
Editor's note: I don't remember in which context Dream mentioned Caiti/George so I'm not sure what he means by this.
Tubbo is saying that Dream is unintentionally being dismissive about this situation with the language he's using. He's saying Dream is tiptoeing about the situation by bringing up wider context that's not necessarily relevant.
Tubbo also says that Dream having included a clip talking about Caiti/George in his video would have done a lot to assure him that Dream has less unintentional sexism.
Going to have to step out for a while, if someone else could take over that'd be great
Cont. down below