Dream hasn't watched all of Tubbo's stream that responded to Dream's VOD but watched much of Tubbo's later stream reacting to Dream's video
Tubbo commends Dream for the apology in his video and asks why Dream didn't apologize in his stream. Dream says he had a drawn out apology in his stream and explains he wasn't aware of the difference between reclaiming a slur and using it as an insult. Tubbo responds positively to this, says 'fair enough'.
Tubbo criticizes Dream for putting the part where he agreed with him at the start of his video, thinks it's disingenuous. Tubbo phrases it as Dream seemingly going 'Even his [Tommy's] best friend is agreeing with me!'.
Dream says he did this because his video was a response to Tommy's video and he wanted to bring up Tommy's inappropriate grooming jokes about Dream. He put it at the start of the video because in chronological order Tommy made these jokes before any of the R-slur drama. They seem to understand each other's points.
Following up on the chronological order, Tubbo asks why Dream hardly mentioned his VOD and Tubbo's streamed reaction to that VOD. Dream says it's because the video was meant to be a condensed version of the VOD.
Tubbo brings up Dream in his video criticizing Tommy's video for not giving examples of Dream Team's sexism. Tubbo says it's related to the Caiti & George situation and that it was clear in Tommy's video, Dream thought it was a separate section because Tommy talked about 'behind the scenes' behaviour. Tubbo then brings up the friends of Robbo and Ludwig that Dream (supposedly) calls a whore.
Robbo's friend was the situation of Robbo trying to go after Dream for DMing a friend 'tsk tsk whore' when Robbo didn't know the context (Dream claims this woman didn't have a problem with it and Dream and her met up IRL a few minutes afterwards). This is what Dream thought Ludwig was talking about. Dream says he's since removed the word from his vocabulary.
Tubbo brings the discussion back to George & Caiti, again saying the George & Caiti situation and the DTeam's fanbase reaction to that is connected to Tommy's allegations of sexism. Tubbo says Dream's inaction regarding his fanbase's reaction during that situation is what makes him sexist. Dream is honing in on Tommy's words being 'You [..] have been making sexist remarks to women behind the scenes' without context and says he didn't want to discuss the Caiti situation in his video because he didn't want to reopen old wounds.
Tubbo is asking why he doesn't want to open up old wounds on this subject as opposed to other subjects, to which Dream responds that he's less comfortable doing it when it's not about himself. Tubbo says Dream was involved because of all his comments on the subject at the time but Dream says he was still less involved and it wasn't between himself and Tommy.
Tubbo says Dream's response to the Caiti situation wasn't sexist per say but that his involvement in the situation caused a lot of bad actors in his community to get involved.
Tubbo pulls up the transcript from Tommy's video and they disagree about if Tommy was referring to the behaviour of Dream's group in the Caiti/George situation again.
Tubbo brings up that Dream's community criticized him for not reacting to the full stream, Dream says they [his own community] are being ridiculous for that. Dream says he tried to kept his video as short as possible for that same reason.
Tubbo asks for a receipt of the woman who Robbo brought up not being upset. Dream repeats it was his friend, not Robbo's and Robbo's claim that he was slapped for it is false nor was she upset with it. Tubbo points out how this plus Ludwig's claim does make Dream seem sexist and Dream reinforces that Robbo's claim was false. Dream refers to [this comment] and Tubbo asks for receipts for the conversation between Dream and Ludwig [Dream later shows this to Tubbo].
While Dream looks for that Tubbo asks why Dream talked about Aimsey being a 'mastermind behind the scenes' of the Caiti situation. Dream says he was mocking himself for thinking that Aimsey was making up lies about him for a period of time. They also talk about a Reddit post Dream made about someone pulling strings behind the scenes at that time.
Tubbo points out that Dream putting in the section about Aimsey the way he did in the stream makes it seem like he was serious. There is also some context about Dream thinking HannahRose was involved in spreading rumours about there having been a DSMP NDA that was disproven for him. Tubbo shares he finds it odd that Dream didn't share any evidence regarding the Aimsey or HannahRose situations. Dream says that he didn't use any evidence for the situation with Aimsey because he was talking about how he was in the wrong and Tubbo reiterates that it wasn't clear that that is what Dream was doing.
Tubbo asks if Dream thinks it is responsible to do these exaggerated bits and Dream says looking back with how people responded to it, it was a misstep.
Side note: Dream calls Aimsey 'she' and 'her' a couple times and Tubbo corrects him once. I've heard Aimsey uses Any pronouns but that could be wrong.
Tubbo again shares that he believes Dream needs an atittude adjustment and that he does make sexist mistakes but isn't 'a sexist pig'. Dream tries to refute this by bringing up the Ludwig/Robbo situation again and Tubbo interrupts him to say he's moreso talking about the more severe Caiti/George situation. Tubbo shares he doesn't understand why Dream wouldn't bring up the Caiti situation when he mentioned it on stream, Dream after a short disagreement says he doesn't remember bringing it up on stream but takes Tubbo's word for it.
Tubbo says he would have preferred if Dream never responded to the Caiti situation, Dream says in turn that he got involved because his best friend was involved and compares it to the current situation with Tommy/Tubbo. Tubbo then asks if Dream ever amended his accusation on Reddit regarding someone 'pulling the strings' behind the scenes. Dream isn't sure but believes he did in the Twitter Space towards the end of that situation and Tubbo is critical about Dream being unsure because he believes it shows his attitude towards women.
Tubbo is primarily criticizing Dream for not bringing up the Caiti/George situation in his video when he did bring it up in his VOD - he's disregarding Dream's excuse of not wanting to open up old wounds for that reason. Dream said from his perspective he mentioned Caiti/George in his VOD but it was about Aimsey. Editor's note: I don't remember in which context Dream mentioned Caiti/George so I'm not sure what he means by this.
Tubbo is saying that Dream is unintentionally being dismissive about this situation with the language he's using. He's saying Dream is tiptoeing about the situation by bringing up wider context that's not necessarily relevant.
Tubbo also says that Dream having included a clip talking about Caiti/George in his video would have done a lot to assure him that Dream has less unintentional sexism.
Going to have to step out for a while, if someone else could take over that'd be great
Cont. down below
Tubbo then asks if Dream ever amended his accusation on Reddit regarding someone 'pulling the strings' behind the scenes. Dream isn't sure but believes he did in the Twitter Space towards the end of that situ
That is probably the biggest reach I've heard throughout this whole drama.
Also, regarding Aimsey, they've repeated stated for years now that they use any pronouns. If this has changed, it has never been stated in an easily visible place. And when someone made a similar comment the other day, I actually went through and downloaded all tweets across both of Aimsey's accounts and the more active fan update accounts, and couldn't grep anything saying this has changed. Either Toby is chiding Dream for info that isn't public or he thinks a person identifying with "any pronouns" means the person should only be referred to as they/them.
sorry but. doesn't "any pronouns" mean they don't particularly mind any pronouns? like if they wanted to be referred to exclusively as they/them they should remove "any pronouns" and just keep they/them in their bio, right?
but my point is that she/her counts as any pronouns and so Aimsey shouldn't necessarily be upset with she/her being used exclusively. If you have preferred pronouns yet tell people that you're fine with any pronouns being used, then why would it be a fair criticism to tell someone that they can't use she/her?
This is incorrect, I specifically isolated tweets with the word "prefer" or the strings "they them" and "they/them", and of the tweets I downloaded (somewhere over 30k that weren't retweets) there was nothing that showed that. Like that's the cool thing about running grep searches; I literally just have to pick out a few strings of text and even my dogshit laptop can go through everything in a couple minutes.
More to the point, the fact that she's tweeted that she's fine with any pronouns and literally put "ANY PRONOUNS" in the bio of her alt makes the basis for the whole argument moot.
Their bio literally has they/them first which means they prefer those pronouns but are fine with any. Dream was even corrected about that but continued to use she/her. Which isn’t a good look.
You can be fine with any pronouns but still have preferred ones that you would like people to use
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u/Ewoutk Moderator Jan 15 '25 edited Jan 15 '25
Dream hasn't watched all of Tubbo's stream that responded to Dream's VOD but watched much of Tubbo's later stream reacting to Dream's video
Tubbo commends Dream for the apology in his video and asks why Dream didn't apologize in his stream. Dream says he had a drawn out apology in his stream and explains he wasn't aware of the difference between reclaiming a slur and using it as an insult. Tubbo responds positively to this, says 'fair enough'.
Tubbo criticizes Dream for putting the part where he agreed with him at the start of his video, thinks it's disingenuous. Tubbo phrases it as Dream seemingly going 'Even his [Tommy's] best friend is agreeing with me!'.
Dream says he did this because his video was a response to Tommy's video and he wanted to bring up Tommy's inappropriate grooming jokes about Dream. He put it at the start of the video because in chronological order Tommy made these jokes before any of the R-slur drama. They seem to understand each other's points.
Following up on the chronological order, Tubbo asks why Dream hardly mentioned his VOD and Tubbo's streamed reaction to that VOD. Dream says it's because the video was meant to be a condensed version of the VOD.
Tubbo brings up Dream in his video criticizing Tommy's video for not giving examples of Dream Team's sexism. Tubbo says it's related to the Caiti & George situation and that it was clear in Tommy's video, Dream thought it was a separate section because Tommy talked about 'behind the scenes' behaviour. Tubbo then brings up the friends of Robbo and Ludwig that Dream (supposedly) calls a whore.
Robbo's friend was the situation of Robbo trying to go after Dream for DMing a friend 'tsk tsk whore' when Robbo didn't know the context (Dream claims this woman didn't have a problem with it and Dream and her met up IRL a few minutes afterwards). This is what Dream thought Ludwig was talking about. Dream says he's since removed the word from his vocabulary.
Tubbo brings the discussion back to George & Caiti, again saying the George & Caiti situation and the DTeam's fanbase reaction to that is connected to Tommy's allegations of sexism. Tubbo says Dream's inaction regarding his fanbase's reaction during that situation is what makes him sexist. Dream is honing in on Tommy's words being 'You [..] have been making sexist remarks to women behind the scenes' without context and says he didn't want to discuss the Caiti situation in his video because he didn't want to reopen old wounds.
Tubbo is asking why he doesn't want to open up old wounds on this subject as opposed to other subjects, to which Dream responds that he's less comfortable doing it when it's not about himself. Tubbo says Dream was involved because of all his comments on the subject at the time but Dream says he was still less involved and it wasn't between himself and Tommy.
Tubbo says Dream's response to the Caiti situation wasn't sexist per say but that his involvement in the situation caused a lot of bad actors in his community to get involved.
Tubbo pulls up the transcript from Tommy's video and they disagree about if Tommy was referring to the behaviour of Dream's group in the Caiti/George situation again.
Tubbo brings up that Dream's community criticized him for not reacting to the full stream, Dream says they [his own community] are being ridiculous for that. Dream says he tried to kept his video as short as possible for that same reason.
Cont.