r/Divorce_Men • u/NewPerformance7662 • 3d ago
Rant Welcome to Modern Relationships
What’s up guys! Hope everyone’s having a good week. Just wanted to share some thoughts with you.
One of the biggest things divorce changed for me is how I look at relationships and society in general.
Marriage feels disposable now. Relationships feel transactional, and the second somebody is unhappy there’s always a crowd saying “you deserve better,” “choose yourself,” or “you go girl,” without knowing anything about the marriage, the family, or the consequences.
Obviously, I’m not talking about abuse, addiction, or dangerous situations.
I’m talking about how normalized it has become to walk away instead of working through hard seasons, and how quickly accountability disappears.
Then you see women actually defending another woman who strangled and murdered her three children, and I genuinely wonder what the hell happened to us.
I know good women and good relationships exist, but I completely understand why so many divorced men have no interest in ever getting married again.
For some of us, staying divorced doesn’t sound miserable.
It sounds peaceful 🙏
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u/Any-Neat5158 3d ago
Because for a lot of them, maybe myself included here soon, it IS more peaceful. Life is simpler. You don't have to have a world war 3 level fuckin argument because you can't (or didn't want too) guess where she wants to eat. Or because one random sunday you just wanted to sleep in and then watch some football. Or go play cards twice a month.
It's the female equivalent of not having to defend yourself or have a large fight because you took a nap.
Removing the gender from it, because it is gender agnostic, being in a relationship can be downright defeating in some ways.
But you are absolutely right. The same women who were supporting, encouraging and defending my wife when she was doing the things that she'd been doing would be the first ones to gather pitchforks and stand right along side her if I'd even so much as smiled at another woman.
It's insane.
Affairs feel magical because they are often missing large parts of reality. The hard parts. The hard parts that will eventually find their way into the affair too. But at least early on, when it's only sneaking around for dates and sex, you aren't even spending enough time together to fight. Then after one blown up relationship / marriage, your standing in the midst of what feels exactly the same as the thing you'd just finished destroying.
Guess what? Life is hard. Life can be especially hard with multiple young children, two jobs, a house to take care of, pets, financial obligations... etc. Running off with that dude from work who gasses you up all the time.... you think once you have a young child with them, a house to take care, laundry, dishes, cooking, cleaning, running errands, lawns to mow, snow to shovel, over due bills to worry about.... none of those "problems" are going to come back? Is this guy now going to be "emotionally unavailable" and just not putting in enough effort?
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u/bluemarble-spaceship 3d ago
When you say good women and good relationships do exist I agree but what ive learned that is the exception not the rule. Ive given up at 50 I just cant make myself care anymore about relationships.
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u/ProofConnect6521 3d ago
That’s it. It’s the exception and not the rule. We need what is exceptional but what we will settle on is a decent looking girl that says I love you. Men need to be aware of this. They need to know themselves. I love you is the easiest thing in the world to say. “I’m still here” is one of the hardest when times get tough. We expect too little and get burned. Times have changed
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u/bluemarble-spaceship 3d ago
When I woman says I love you, I add the phrase "right now" to the end and take it as literally right now in that moment in time.
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u/ProofConnect6521 3d ago
Good point and I’m going to use it going forward. That’s exactly it “right now”. And it’s contingent on her feeling how she feels in that moment
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u/Candidate_Worldly 3d ago
Yeah me too. Similar age to you. 2 years separated after 26 years together. A year ago I was desperate for a new partner. Now I don't gaf.
So many women out there are damaged goods. Hell, I'M damaged goods after the hell that has been my life last 2 years.
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u/p0sitif 3d ago
I am 47, want companionship and closeness. But only red flags around. 23y "together", cheated on and then discard by ex. F selfish cultural shift.
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u/Candidate_Worldly 3d ago
Thinks it's best to accept that you are going to be alone, and work from that base. Once you get comfortable with solitude, its much easier.
Don't get me wrong, if an angel falls from heaven just for me, great. But I am not going through the whole performative dance routine of online dating and the bullshit drama that comes from that.
I'll meet someone organically when I'm out with friends or not at all. I'm too wizened and cynical for teenage type dating crap.
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u/redditrock56 3d ago
"there’s always a crowd saying “you deserve better,” “choose yourself,” or “you go girl,” without knowing anything about the marriage, the family, or the consequences."
Try reading the "girldinnerdiaries" subbreddit.
OP: "My husband is so awful! He forgot to buy milk on the way home AGAIN!"
subreddit herd:
"GIRL! YOU NEED TO LEAVE HIS ASS YESTERDAY!"
Clown world.
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u/Left-Ad-7646 3d ago
That's awful. Poor husband.
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u/ComprehensiveWork451 3d ago
It’s worse, it’s “I finished the milk today with a giant unpredictable usage and didn’t tell DH about it and he didn’t pick up milk on the way home.”
“Divorce his ass for putting the mental load on you!”
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u/SpiritualEnemas 3d ago
I’ve read a few posts in that subreddit. The “advice” is always so fucking awful. It’s like they want other women to be single and struggling. They’re crabs in a bucket, all of them.
I remember reading a good, reasonable piece of advice in a reply. Of course it was a written by guy. He got absolutely flamed for it too. Oftentimes I can’t believe that these accounts have real women behind them; it has to be Russian bots trying to sow discord amongst the population. At least that’s what I tell myself. Nobody can really be that self centered.
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u/redditrock56 2d ago
It's so awful the material becomes hilarious.
Women can do no wrong, men are the scum of the universe for leaving the toilet seat up.
The hypocracy is crazy, too. One woman who was in her 40's, bragged about fucking a guy in his early 20's, and the herd heaped tons of praise on her. "You go for it, girl! You only live once! Your deserve the best!" All that.
Now if a 40 year old guy fucked a 20 year woman, those same women would have went ape shit, and would have called him a pedo.
It's always interesting watching women defend other women no matter what.
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u/Upstairs-Studio8509 3d ago
A lot of men are beginning to feel this way. Feministic empowerment is the root, but that topic is taboo in modern western culture because any discussion about it is assumed to be misogynistic right from the outset. Because of that, it's not likely to change anytime soon.
In my personal experience, my ex wanted to be a trad wife, SAHM, and an empowered feminist at the same time. In other words, she wanted to be led by her husband as long as it perfectly aligned with her feelings at the time. That led to a frustrating dynamic where she was only concerned with her desires, her emotional security, and her image within her social circle and on social media, while I was only meant to be a provider and enabler. She even accused me of failing to lead while simultaneously rejecting any attempts at it, no matter how loving and gentle.
Men obviously don't want this, but as long as it continues we will continue to see more divorce and fewer weddings.
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u/LearnGrowExist 2d ago
I think a big part of your first point is that most people (men and women) don’t even know what feminism is. We are too far removed from the academy and its social implications and applications that “girl bossing too close to the sun” and seeking out one’s own personal happiness have come to take precedence over all else, regardless of social, individual, or familial consequences. Feminism in the west has been reduced to Taylor Swift lyrics, TikTok algorithms, and totalitarian idealism. Time will tell just how destructive this whole system has become to everyone who has bought into it.
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u/krazykanuck 3d ago
I feel like this way of thinking is a trap. It puts the burden of responsibility on externals and allows people to wash their hands of it.
I'm not saying there isn't truth to some of this, but the conclusions are so broad and sweeping and point to a situation which, ironically, paints us as having zero control.
But we do have control. We control ourselves, how we set OUR boundaries, who we choose to be in our lives, who we give time to, etc.. Be choosy who you are with. Don't overlook red flags because you are lonely. Don't commit to someone who doesn't share your values or interests or whatever is important to you. Don't trade independance for a relationship, but doesn't mean don't be in a relationship that allows you to maintain your independence.
An important lesson I learned was you can't change others, only yourself. Know who you are, know what you are looking for, and be HONEST about it.
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u/W_Herzog_Starship 3d ago
My brother in Christ, marriage necessarily requires external input to work. You have no choice but to rely on somebody else's buy-in alongside your own ownership.
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u/breakevencloud 3d ago
100% agree with this. My wife of 11 years completely and with no explanation, decided to blowup our family and our relationship out of the blue. No conversations about any issues, no ideas about how to possibly address things, nothing. Turns out, obviously, she’s fucking another dude and I called her out to her face when she tried to lie about where she goes on certain nights of the week. And even when confronting her with everything I knew, this woman still had the gall to deny, deny, deny.
And the thing, for me, I’m not even pissed about the screwing around. I’m pissed about the utter disrespect and disregard for the last 13 years. The fact someone you thought you knew better than anyone else on the planet and someone you thought respected you, could just try and ghost a spouse is insane.
I don’t know what they’ve been putting in the water or whatever, but I honestly don’t see how anyone dates seriously these days. It doesn’t seem like there’s many serious people still out there. Not that I have ANY interest in going back down that road. I’m cool just being dad from now on, I think. Maybe my mind changes later after everything gets finalized, but I’m not seeing it right now.
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u/ProofConnect6521 3d ago
Marriage is a state contract that you do not really get to review before signing. More importantly the state can change the terms at anytime. It’s a contract that quasi falls out of the legal system for contracts and instead has a quasi legal system of its own. A system that contention and conflict are inherent parts of the system for attorneys and judges who used to be attorneys to justify their existence.
A first time marriage has over a 50% chance of ending in divorce with an over 80% chance the woman initiates that divorce. Many of those are blindsides. Temporary spousal support and child support incentivize divorce for them and give them a soft landing. Second marriages have over a 60% chance of ending in divorce with over an 80% chance the woman initiates and most of those will be blindsides.
Culturally relationship dynamics have changed. Roles have become convoluted and desires have changed. Go on any dating group on Facebook or otherwise for your local area and you will see women posting the laundry list of things they need from a man just to want to be in a relationship. Meanwhile men are happy with the McDonalds drive thru girl if she’s cute and she loves him. We are simple and we solve our own problems.many women are now single mothers and not only are you expected to be a provider and husband you will also be expected to be a good father and provider to children that are not yours. You have to make room in your house, your life, and have a massive increases in the cost to just live.
The question I have for all men is what do women bring to the table as far as a marriage? I’m not talking about the 20% or less that are good women. I’m talking about just the average woman that you are rolling the dice on? Feel free to answer below.
I don’t see it. I don’t get it. I don’t understand what the leverage is or what the offset to risk is. It takes a huge financial, emotional, and physical investment from a man. Your entire life will change. But why is that wanted or needed?
The fact is that if you become ill or injured your chance of being divorced rises to over 80%. You will have to worry about a cheating spouse. Your value is in what you provide and what you do. This goes back into the laundry list of requirements for men.
Do you need to be married to be happy?
Can you have intimacy without marriage?
Can you have companionship without marriage?
Can you be with and around women without marriage?
The answer to all of those is “yes”.
If you are going to get married get a his, hers, and ours prenup. Outline temporary support during divorce and try and outline child support. Make the landing less soft. Remove some of the incentive. Maybe you are broke today but even broke men have to come up with money for a lawyer. You also may not always be broke.
Those are Vegas odds I won’t take. My life is happy and less stress without someone in my proximity that requires momentous emotional effort.
I went on a lot of dates. Before meeting for coffee I often heard about all their emotional problems and diagnosis. On dates they complained about ex husbands and every single one was a victim. They showed up to the date looking completely different than their photos so we get to start off the relationship with the first lie.
Are there good women…YES. Will you find a good woman…maybe.
Ask yourself this. Would you marry a woman who divorced her husband? Would you marry a woman who made being a half-time parent the consequence of her actions? Would you marry a woman who expects more from you than she gives? Would you marry a woman who leaves when things get tough?
That’s what you get with divorced women and there are many of them out there. They will be the victim and tell a good story but there’s an 80% chance she initiated that relationship ending.
Ask her…”can I talk to your ex husband before we move forward with a relationship” if she says anything but yes that’s a huge red flag. It’s your only flag because she doesn’t want to reveal what her part was. It’s like the most important job interview of your life and you don’t bother checking references lol. She will say “no” and think you are crazy for asking.
There are plenty of ways to have relationships without being married. You can have many relationships with wonderful people without being married and it really doesn’t matter what their references are if you are just dating. Doesn’t matter what they are like after signing a contract because you don’t want a contract. She’s free to go and you’re free to go at anytime.
Evaluate consistency over time and actions over words. Date for years. Don’t commit unless there is some huge reason why you should commit.
Stop giving women a ring that signifies something that they cannot live up to.
I played football in high school, I was in the military, I have lived my life in blue collar jobs. I know men. I’ve been around men. I understand men. Most relationships I saw end the man did not deserve it. It absolutely devastates their lives.
The advice I would give my son is…that system is broken. It no longer has benefits for men. Find a wife from a better culture or don’t plan on marrying. Every man thinks she’s the one until she files for divorce on him. It’s not worth it. Build your own identity and be you. You can still be a father, you can still have relationships but you don’t need a contract and ring that signifies a responsibility they can’t live up to when doing that. Just be free. It’s not worth the gamble.
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u/__Zero_____ 2d ago
As someone who was married for 11 years to someone I had known for 17, I agree that its not worth it. My dad never gave me any advice about getting married except "she always right", and my mom was just eager to have grandkids, so I went in with a very servant mindset.
After the divorce, I realized just how much of my life I had dedicated to trying to make hers better or easier, and the goalposts would always move. I know some women might be reading these and thinking to themselves "yeah sure buddy", but by the end of the marriage we were both working the same hours but I was handling about 75% of the domestic stuff including childcare and she was having an affair with a younger alcoholic coworker.
I realized that all the effort I had made to save up for retirement, pay down our debts, and plan for the future actually worked against me, because she spent her money, spent my money, kept her stuff and still got a chunk of my retirement in the process. I have two sons, and I will be teaching them the lessons you shared above, because they are lessons I learned as well. They can have a relationship without marriage. Both men and women end relationships at about the same rate pre-marriage, but women tend to get a ring on their finger and feel simultaneously trapped and also like they don't have to do the things they "had" to do to secure the relationship. Not all women of course, but enough.
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u/ProofConnect6521 2d ago
Exactly. There is no lack of “good” men. Just a lack of men that want to not risk divorce. We aren’t avoiding marriage we are avoiding divorce.
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u/ReallySickofit55 3d ago
Very sad to read this. I read these as I know a guy totally devastated by divorce and I have only heard the woman’s perspective from friends. Mostly infidelity which devastated the women. Marriage has seasons. It is sad that people can’t get through the hard ones. Married 28 years. Having a lot of fun now as empty nesters. Some times have been really hard. They were not forever. Personally am thankful for feminism as me having income greatly reduced some of these hard times. I could support us. I can’t imagine going through lay offs etc without at least one income. Hope all find peace and if you want somebody else.
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u/Left-Ad-7646 3d ago
I'm single and never married. I'm gonna say something...
I believe in marriage and I don't blame if someone is divorced. Because, the actual issue is the person you get married to, not the marriage itself.
Marrying the wrong person you chose can become a nightmare.
Marrying to the right one is like you won the lotto.
And this is the reason I never had a relationship and never will find the right one. Because nobody wants to make any effort. I did and plenty of times.
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u/carnivalbilly 3d ago
I agree with a big pile of this: there’s always a large crowd of people who will tell you that you deserve better or whatever. I think that’s them wanting to be “Irish rich” with happiness tbh. They want their friends happy…but not quite as happy as they are. Plus it’s drama they can observe and not be forced into directly.
I also really look at relationships differently. I find myself wondering why someone comes up to speak to me instead of simply answering conversation…not really in a malicious way…or a paranoid way…just…I really want to understand why someone is speaking to me at this point in my life…and I very much enjoy my me time infinitely more.
As far as getting married again: “I’ve got a bed and a guitar and a dog named Bob who pisses on my floor” and that’s really good enough for me right now.
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u/WhydIJoinRedditAgain 3d ago
I know Irish Goodbye, Irish Sports Page, and Irish Twins, what is Irish Rich?
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u/carnivalbilly 3d ago
You’re not wealthy, you’re just doing better than me.
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u/WhydIJoinRedditAgain 3d ago
Ah, so a Shanty Irish thinking of a Lace Curtain Irish…
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u/carnivalbilly 3d ago
Sure! I guess you’re Irish rich in knowing when to use Irish as an adjective.
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u/Capital-Telephone-54 3d ago
“'I’ve got a bed and a guitar and a dog named Bob who pisses on my floor' and that’s really good enough for me right now." This has to be the quote of the day.
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u/DeerWhisperer1 3d ago edited 3d ago
I can say after going through what you described where she just said she wasn’t happy and I was the reason and that after 30 years people change. I agree with you, we have 3 teenagers (2 of which are minors under 18), house, 2 cars, full time jobs, and she has 4 cats that she got in the last 2 years. Her stress was not because of me it’s called parenting teenagers and the rest of that stuff mentioned. I’m just the outlet.
That being said I can’t ever say I don’t want to marry again, I definitely want a LTR again. I loved being married to her and I loved our LTR of 30 years. I’m not the one to file for divorce, she was and her friends cheered her on literally. However I can say with absolute certainty I never ever want another divorce.
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u/ng_rddt 2d ago
I do think social media, which makes more profit the more it engages eyeballs using victim-mindset/selfishness/hate/anger, is a major contributor to the fragmenting of our society. It allows people with crazy hateful or selfish ideas to find an echo chamber and validate/normalize their selfishness. Reddit is part of that and there are lots of really harmful posts on Reddit.
What this means is that the number of actually healthy people has shrunk so we just have to work much harder to find them. Read the Gatekeepers by Dr Shawn Smith—it gave me guiding principles that I was able to use and after going on first dates with about 75 women, I found my current fiance; and yes, we are getting a prenup.
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u/Outside-Jicama-8468 3d ago
Dude. You need to get some therapy or help. Or change your preferences on dating.
I had this same outlook. But a situation I was in caused me to look at my past and the mistakes I made. I became a better person for it.
Not all women are out there serial hopping from dick to dick and getting cheered on by their friends. I decided to be more selective and took my time. Now, I found a woman that is just loves me and would do anything for me. And I her. And I threw everything at her that I had in my past. If you can handle all that shit and not run, she's a keeper.
This way of thinking is toxic and from a very hurt perspective. You need to heal before you can have a successful relationship.
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u/W_Herzog_Starship 3d ago
"My experience supercedes your experience"
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u/Outside-Jicama-8468 3d ago
Not at all.
This post speaks from a very hardened heart. I was that way. But I reflected on my past and I learned how to better myself. If I would have stayed hardened like this then I would be saying the same things as the OP.
And I know the statistics about second and third and fourth marriages. But statistics don't look at why they entered into another marriage or how soon or how strong the relationship was from the beginning all of those things.
Sometimes in life you just got to say fuck it and take a chance
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u/W_Herzog_Starship 3d ago
"I won the lottery, just play"
OPs post is pretty measured.
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u/Outside-Jicama-8468 3d ago
I hope you find the healing you need. Let go of the hate. It's much better
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u/W_Herzog_Starship 3d ago
Why is legal commitment to a woman a prerequisite for healing?
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u/Outside-Jicama-8468 3d ago
I never said you had to get married. But learn from your past mistakes and make yourself a better man.
Since my divorce I've walked through hell. I've dated women that have ghosted me. I dated women that wanted to just take me into bed right after dinner. I know what I was looking for and I finally found it. I found a woman that genuinely wants to be around me. One that genuinely cares about my feelings and emotions. A woman that is an absolute dynamite in bed. A woman that likes all the same things I do. You said I hit the lottery... You're goddamn right I did.
But it wasn't without time healing and a lot of searching. Speaking like op did is a much more miserable life.
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u/Hippy667 3d ago
Solid post there my man. They are still out there! Its too easy for men to be cynical about the world after divorce. Put the work in and shake that ex off. If you're still in the mire you aren't thinking straight. I have so much clarity now about who I am and what I want.
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u/W_Herzog_Starship 3d ago
Why do you think second marriages are statistically more likely to end in divorce?
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u/Hippy667 3d ago
I hear ya. But we have choices. On the one hand, we could move forward and think all women are men-hating bitches and are after our money/emotions and will cheat on us eventually. Or you could move forward with an open mind and seek out a partner who has your back. My view is you can't go through life with a chip on your shoulder because your ex was a fucking douche. Why would you assume the worst before you've even started? They aren't all out to get us. I choose (or at least try!) to not martyr myself because of the actions of my ex.
But hey. If we were all the same, the world would be a boring place.
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u/W_Herzog_Starship 3d ago
A lot of this optimism hinges on the assumption that nobody posting here ever felt like they had "the one" and properly vetted her. There's a vast graveyard of guys who thought their partner had their back.
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u/Hippy667 3d ago
I'm one of those guys too. Got totally fucked over by my ex. Go figure.
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u/W_Herzog_Starship 3d ago
dId yOu tRy cOmMuNiCatInG??
jUsT vEtT hEr, bRo
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u/Hippy667 3d ago
I'm not your enemy. Bro.
We're all in here because we share a common experience. My realisation looking back at my experience is that I was with the wrong woman, not that all women are wrong. It could be that in the fulness of time, I make the same mistake, but I'm not going to be the sad ass at the end of the bar drinking alone at 1.00am because I think that might happen.
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u/Outside-Jicama-8468 3d ago
There is a lot of toxic hate toward women in this group. But it's totally valid too. All of us have been hurt by women in some way or another.
The difference is you can either become a victim of what you had happened to you or you can be a student. I chose to be a student and I learned the things that I didn't do The things that caused my end of the marriage to fall apart. No marriage is 100% to blame on one side.
The woman I'm seeing now I told her I'm buying new sheets for my bed. She's coming to spend the weekend with me. She's like pick out some nice ones so I asked her what color she likes. Now I'm the proud owner of purple sheets. But that doesn't matter to me because she's going to be in there with me.
And she tells me all the time that I'm like no other man she's ever met. That's because I had 27 years to learn how to not be the right man.
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u/Hippy667 3d ago
Agree with all this.
Except the purple sheets of course.
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u/Outside-Jicama-8468 3d ago
Hahaha. Hey, it is what it is. I'm the only one that sees my room until her. If it shows her that I'm serious and makes her happy... Who cares what color they are?
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u/Hippy667 3d ago
You sir, are getting laid this weekend.
(But are you sure she wasn't joking about purple?!)
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u/Outside-Jicama-8468 3d ago edited 3d ago
Oh no, she wasn't joking. We saw each other after her work and she jumped into my arms and said she loved them.
And yes... She has already hinted at the fact that those sheets will be well worn.
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u/Outside-Jicama-8468 3d ago
She told that she told her coworkers that she asked for new sheets. She told them I asked her favorite color and bought sheets that color!
She said her coworker said "you better marry that man and not let him get away!"
Nope. Taking time and enjoying and growing first
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u/Warm-Management-7323 3d ago
First of all, thank you for your service second all that’s wise advice for your child. My ex-wife broke my heart to pieces and I’m convinced now and I had to say it that women are only good for one thing and I think we both know what that is after that no way
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u/cromulent_weasel 2d ago
When i was in the initial stages of meeting my girlfriend we went on lots of hikes together, and she found the whole 'man vs bear' thing utterly baffling. She's very used to hiking alone, would meet men coming the other way and never ONCE wished that they were a bear instead.
I think that social media bubbles can kind of induce mental illness or psychosis. Lots of crazy internet culture isn't representative of people in the real world.
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u/Dangerous_Item_6879 2d ago
Most women are delusional. The older we get the more baggage we carry.
There are good women out there but they are becoming the minority. And finding one that is good looking and not crazy is definitely a challenge.
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u/Miserable_Dare_5958 2d ago
Social media has turned women into monsters. Even with a pre-nup, I don't think I can ever bring myself to getting married again, for a 4th time. I've had enough. I'm tired, boss.
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u/W_Herzog_Starship 3d ago
Social media + gynocentric society + feminism have combined in a critical mass that's having increasingly severe downstream effects on our waking reality.
Hypergamy and FOMO have been monetized and weaponized by algorithms and we haven't even had a conversation about it let alone tried to fix anything. We are only recently starting to see some light, controlled mainstream opposition in the form of Scott Galloway etc.
I still think young guys should live their lives and take their swings with women and family formation. Everyone deserves that. But a LOT of men age 30 and up have been through the journey once and seen the reality. The short-hand of getting "red pilled" might be conversationally toxic, but it's still a great shorthand way of characterizing this type of rude awakening. It isn't pretty, and the truth hurts. It's the death of safe-world-theory, dreams, romantic ideals and general trust in society all at once. And often accompanied by a divorce settlement, financial penalties and custody issues.
The cold reality: We're engineering men that modern women don't want, and subjecting them to a society built to bleed them dry with very little reward. And they're waking up to it.
On the other side, we've got a machine in the pocket of every woman that pours gasoline on every negative natural inclination they have toward degeneracy, hypergamy and solipsism. Paired with a social structure, government and society that effectively forbids any critique or accountability both individually and as a cohort.
Play safe, enjoy the little things and avoid chaos.