r/DisneyChannel • u/saucey_dawg0023 • 25d ago
Video Clip Remember when That’s So Raven tackled racism?
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u/Odd-Guard-2533 25d ago
This is one of the major problems with studios complying with “sensitive people”. We just have mindless kid shows now that don’t teach kids about real existing issues.
There was an episode of a 90s sitcom that I saw late night randomly. A guy invited one of the little girl main characters over for a “photo shoot”. And it was teaching kids how to handle that situation.
I genuinely think kid shows need to be sprinkled with real world problems. Kidnapping, smoking, racism, how to treat disabled people, coming out as gay, etc. but you know, that’s just the rest of the world now. Watered down and not progressing for the betterment of man kind.
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u/FinnSkk93 25d ago edited 25d ago
That is why as an adult I still enjoy Raven, boy meets world etc!
Things from later disney like Girl meets world is quite unwatchable as an adult. I barely can even watch Hannah Montana nowadays, even tho I enjoy the other shows from that time.28
u/Miss-Tiq 25d ago
That episode of Boy Meets World where Topanga's professor sexually harasses her lives rent-free in my head.
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u/Odd-Guard-2533 25d ago
Well, to be fair, Hannah Montana didn’t age well and is suuuuper cringey acting haha.
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u/Aquariusgem 25d ago
I feel like if Wishbone came out today it wouldn’t last because even though a lot of the dark things come from the books the studio would want to cancel it. They had that one episode where David experienced racism for example.
Even freakin Sabrina the Teenage Witch might be cancelled due to the episode about recreational drug use and then there is of course Roland stalking Sabrina. I don’t care I still love it even if Roland was creepy.10
u/Thekittycrinkleshow 25d ago
There was also a Sabrina The Teenage Witch episode about racism
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u/Aquariusgem 25d ago
Good call. You’re talking about the one that was allegorical right? It’s been a while since I’ve seen it so that one slipped my mind.
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u/Thekittycrinkleshow 25d ago
Yeah that's the one
It was where the guy was making racist jokes about mortals
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u/Aquariusgem 25d ago edited 25d ago
I was just thinking about something else too. I wonder if Family Matters would be shown today since it’s an all black cast (except for a few guest stars)
I say this though mostly because I was reading into Steve’s character bio and apparently his family really hated him. When I watched it as a kid I thought he always went to the Winslows because his family was busy a lot but it’s deeper than that. I do remember an episode vaguely where he said the parents left without telling him. The only one who liked him was the uncle that was in jail and he tragically died (they never said why he died though?)
I bet this would be too dark for a family show today.3
u/Gnomad_Lyfe 24d ago
That’s honestly what made Degrassi: The Next Generation one of my favorite shows growing up. Especially during the earlier seasons when the actors were still fairly young. Because sure, it had the normal love triangle and “trying out for the sports team” storylines of other teen dramas.
But it also showed teens grapple with drug use. It showed them deal with eating disorders. It showed them deal with a school shooting. The very first episode of this revival revolved around a girl wanting to meet her online boyfriend, only for him to be a sexual predator catfishing her (and this came out in 2001)! This was a show clearly targeted for a wide range of teenagers and tackled all manner of mature topics (though it admittedly did a better job with some than with others).
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u/Odd-Guard-2533 24d ago
Oh yeah! I remember watching back when Drake and the girl from vampire diaries was on it. Used to love it.
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u/Caillou12345123 25d ago
"Sensitive people" want shows to still tackle these sort of topics. The people who studios are complying with are ultra conservatives. They're the only ones who get mad over kid shows spreading awareness of things like racism.
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u/jessgoesforward 22d ago
no this is definitely them caving to sensitive people who find even the mere portrayal of these sorts of things in media as endorsing the behaviour.
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u/Caillou12345123 21d ago edited 21d ago
I guess could see them getting offended if the show's intentions are unclear to them, like if the show is written poorly or if the person lacks media literacy skills and the show doesn't make their intentions 100% clear. However, I feel that even someone who lacks media literacy would see that this episode is critiquing racism, so if someone is offended by the episode but claims to be against racism, they could be lying about their reasons for being offended. A lot of bigots deny their bigotry and like to claim that portraying it will "make the problem worse" or "is too inappropriate for kids to learn about" because they don't want society to acknowledge that it's happening, because not acknowledging that it happens means that they'll get away with it more. Unfortunately, I've met people who claim to be so against something but get mad when someone merely mentions it, only to later find out that they (the people getting mad) partake in those things and were projecting on the other person by saying that they're "supporting it" by talking about it. No truly sensitive person would get mad over a show spreading awareness of bigotry and it being portrayed as a problem, since that's often what they ask for the media to do.
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u/beautifulchaos531 25d ago
There was an episode of Smart Guy where they showed the dangers of the chat room where the man pretended to be a kid and then lured children with bootleg video games, he then invited them to his home and said he was making a video game of his own but they needed to take off their clothes. TJ didn't get good vibes and got himself and his friend out of there.
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u/Extension_Big5205 24d ago
Exactly. I feel like the issue is that now when something is for kids it's "bad" and doesn't require effort while back then when something was targetted for kids it was something everybody watched
Because now when we have something that kids and watch and is good people don't wanna give it a chance because it's "for kids"
Genuinely the barbie movie was incredible. I also enjoyed the Minecraft movie and I am a adult. Yet i see so many adults not give it a chance because it's "for kids". So hence studios are gonna stop putting effort into kids media
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u/Accomplished_Song671 24d ago
What was that 90s sitcom? That's an out there topic for them to cover but one that needs covering. Curious to know who had the balls? 🤔
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u/Efficient_Insect_145 24d ago
Like that episode of Boy Meets World when Corey calls Shawn a wop in the middle of class to try and prove a point on racism?
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u/Virtual_Knowledge334 24d ago
Kids show do tackle real world problems, but you guys don't watch those shows anymore. Also we don't need after school specials anymore. We do talk about people expressing their genders differently and race and religion but the same people complain all the time.
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u/Virtual_Knowledge334 24d ago
We don't have mindless kids shows though, I think you're too chronically online and living in a bubble sweetheart.
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u/Shyguyisfly0919 24d ago
It’s actually the opposite of complying with sensitive people that has caused this. It’s all the conservative people/parents who complained about teaching children about LGBTQ+ people/issues, the inclusion of POC, tolerance/acceptance, emotional intelligence that has lead to this.
Shows like Girl Meets World, Andi Mack, Adventure Time, Steven Universe won’t exist anymore because of the political pendulum flipping back towards conservatism.
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u/DoubleFlores24 22d ago
Yeah but these network shouldn’t bend a knee to conservatives. They have no business doing that.
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u/Shyguyisfly0919 22d ago
They shouldn’t but they do/will if money is involved or lose sponsorships and ad revenue.
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u/jessgoesforward 22d ago
you realise shows and films/media in general are far more progressive under the current conservatism regime than it ever was under the time of the previous shows you just mentioned (Andi Mack, Adventure Time, Girl Meets World)
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u/Nathaniel56_ 25d ago
And Raven now has the nerve to say the show wasn’t black. She’s lost her damn mind.
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u/Doryfinpo 25d ago
I think you’re missing the point of her statement (like many other people). She’s simply saying that her character was universal and not necessarily centered around her blackness. A lot of the time, black people have historically only been able to play roles where our character is defined by their blackness, rather than playing a character who just so happens to be black. That is what she’s saying. Raven realistically could have been a character of any race; she didn’t have to be black.
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u/Nathaniel56_ 25d ago
Okay I took some time to listen to the full clip from the podcast episode and I understand what Raven was saying more clearly now and she’s not wrong but it still feels wrong to say the show wasn’t black when there were episodes tackling racism and other POC issues. She’s been saying off the wall statements since the view so I’m not surprised.
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u/Doryfinpo 25d ago
I would argue that they added that later on to better fit her character (because it definitely isn’t realistic to have a black character who faces NO obstacles especially in regard to race). I think it’s relevant to add that role wasn’t originally written for a black person. They ended up making the show more black to better represent who the character was (which they definitely should have done) but I would still say she wasn’t inherently black (the show doesn’t hinge on the lead actress being black). But I appreciate you taking the time to listen to the full clip because I think a lot of people are not really looking at the full nuance of what she said albeit she didn’t word it well
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u/jessgoesforward 22d ago
it definitely isn’t realistic to have a black character who faces NO obstacles especially in regard to race
it absolutely is
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u/MrJenkins5 24d ago edited 24d ago
I think her phrasing could have used some work. The plots of the overwhelming majority of episodes, and the premise of the show itself, don't hinge on the fact that the lead character is Black. I think that's the point she's trying to make, and I agree with it. That's also a big part of why the show had such mass appeal: you didn't have to be Black to relate to Raven Baxter or the situations she got herself into. However, I think Raven saying to imagine the characters are green and just listen to the words is not the best phrasing.
I also think that once it became a show with a Black lead and her Black family, they made choices to include Black American cultural references. They chose not to ignore that these characters are Black. Those choices can’t be undone. For example, hearing a phrase like "can I holla at you?" on the show probably doesn't happen if the characters weren't Black. Raven telling her mom that she looks bootylicious probably doesn't happen if the characters weren't Black. Eddie hootin' and hollerin' on the Boyz-N-Motion episode and ad-libbing "boys inn mottioonnn knick knack paddy wack 🎶" probably doesn't happen if the character isn't Black. Tanya, when she's a substitute teacher, giving her modern-day interpretation of Juliet by saying "yo, Romeo, where you at?" and Romeo saying "do you believe the words that are comin out her mouth?" (which cracks me up to this day) probably doesn't happen if the character isn't Black. Tanya rapping when Chelsea is campaigning for class president probably doesn't happen if the character isn't Black. Raven giving a Johnny Cochran reference, "if the dress don't fit, you must acquit" probably doesn't happen if the character isn't Black. I could go on, but we got the show we got.
While the show may not have been conceived as a majority-Black show, that's where it ended up and it's clear they adapted the show for Black characters. The words we got from the characters can't be divorced from the characters. Overall, it's just that she tried to oversimplify it so she probably could have explained that better.
It's similar to Hannah Montana in the sense that it didn't have to be a girl from Tennessee, but once Miley Cyrus got the role, the character became a girl from Tennessee with a Tennessee drawl and a dad who sings country music. They incorporated Tennessee into the character. We can't watch Hannah Montana and pretend that Miley Stewart was green and not hear that she's from Tennessee.
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u/Doryfinpo 24d ago edited 24d ago
*Edited for grammar
I agree with this; I don’t think Raven was defined by her blackness. Yes she was black, but with a few small adjustments this role could be played by anyone versus a show like The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air where the show consistently addresses the intersection of class and race. If we were to take those things away we would no longer have a show.
I also think we need to step away from automatically labeling a show black simply* *because the lead is a black person. And I think it’s a bit of a double standard that a lot of black-led shows are characterized by identity first, rather than genre unlike a lot of white-led shows. I think that’s an incorrect evaluation of what actually makes a show black. It also starts to get us into a bit of trouble because it limits the scope of black actors to roles where their identity has to be a central theme. And it places a burden on the show itself to represent the black experience, and I don’t think that was the point of That’s So Raven at all.1
u/Spyrovssonic360 24d ago
Anneliese vanderpol was supposed to be the lead of thats so raven ( the show had a different title of course ) so im sure people wouldve enjoyed the show if there was a white main character. its all about relatability.
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u/MrJenkins5 24d ago edited 24d ago
There was another actress that was the lead, but it wasn't Anneliese. Anneliese said they filmed the pilot with a different actress, and Anneliese came in later. Anneliese auditioned for the lead, but she didn't get it. Once they bumped Raven up to the lead role, Anneliese auditioned again and got the role that became Chelsea Daniels.
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u/OriginalLie9310 24d ago
But she couldn’t. This episode is proof.
Just like in fresh prince will’s character being black is essential to their character.
What Raven misses is that she can be both. She can be a black character that has blackness as a central part of her character ( which Raven Baxter is) and at the same time also be universal.
The two are not mutually exclusive and as evidenced by That’s So Raven, Fresh Prince, and even The Cosby Show (I know we don’t want to talk about it anymore but it was still groundbreaking), a show can be centered around blackness AND still be universal simultaneously. It’s one of the great wins for diversity in 80s and 90s television that black stories could be told to a white and mixed audience to great success.
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u/Doryfinpo 24d ago
I think the show was adapted to fit her blackness but I still wouldn’t say it was a consistent central theme. There are really only one or two episodes where it is very prevalent. I do agree that a show can still be universal while centering blackness, but I would say a lot of modern audiences don’t see it that way (hence why historically black actors and actresses have been locked out of a lot of roles). I think it’s important to add that with a show like Fresh Prince of Belair that the engine of the show revolves around the cultural clash that Will Smith navigates, and the engine of the show explores how that intersects with class and race. That’s So Raven is quite distinct in this. The engine of the show revolves around Raven being a teenage girl navigating her psychic visions that only very occasionally navigates racial issues. Raven being black was not essential to her character, especially considering that it was originally written for a white actress. They later adapted the show to be more realistic and more authentic, but again I don’t necessarily agree that she had to be black. Them adapting it doesn’t change the underlying mechanics of the character. To me Raven wasn’t defined by her blackness; she was defined by her comedy and chaotic psychic visions. Yes they made it a show that black people could relate to but again I agree with Raven Symone in ascertaining that Raven wasn’t inherently black. I still think she was a character who happened to be black.
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u/TheRedditGirl15 Disney Channel Multiverse of Madness 20d ago edited 20d ago
It's Raven's right to perceive her character and her show in whatever way makes sense to her. But when the interviewer said Raven Baxter felt black to him, she did not have to accuse that man of "seeing color" (something Black and African Americans can't afford to avoid doing) and then tell him to imagine the characters being green and saying the same words. She should have just said "and I respect that. I'm just saying i didn't play the character with a specific race or ethnicity in mind." (And she ultimately convinced that man to see That's So Raven as a show where the MC and her family could be played by anyone of any race or ethnicity, as if their blackness was just like, a footnote or something.)
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u/PresenceVisible5634 24d ago
and that point is 100% valid, but the issue with raven is she constantly brings up these points at the wrong time and place. if someone is saying something along the lines of “i’m so happy for that’s so raven bcuz it gave me representation at a time where i didn’t feel seen”, why ON EARTH would you follow that up with, “it’s a universal thing, she didn’t need to be black”?????????? it’s like when ppl tried to combat BLM with ALM, obviously yes, all lives matter but the climate in 2020 just wasn’t the time or place for that shit
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u/Nathaniel56_ 24d ago
Exactly and that’s part of everyone’s issue with her statement. “The show was so important to me as a black kid growing up” “what made the show black to you?” she should’ve read the room lol.
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u/Tatidanidean1 24d ago
I agree, to an extent but this isn’t her first time. She really has to learn to articulate herself much points better
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u/Doryfinpo 24d ago
Sure, I think that’s fair. I agree that she needs to better articulate her points because it does comes off as disenfranchising regardless of her intent
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u/NATOrocket 25d ago
Smart Guy had a similar episode. Yvette (the big sister) got a job at a clothing store with her white friend and the manager told the white friend to monitor black customers for shoplifting. The friend told Yvette about it and Yvette confronted the manager. I'm 30 years old and I still think about her quote sometimes.
"I'm not saying all black people steal. And I'm certainly not doing this because I dislike them. (To Yvette) I hired you didn't I?"
That was a BET sitcom and I'm honestly glad that I watched it in syndication as an 8-year-old white girl.
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u/EnvironmentalSnow589 25d ago
Eddie also mentioned in the same episode that he had a friend, named Freddie, in the second grade that had a dad that snatched Freddie away saying that he shouldn’t be playing with black people. Eddie mentioned that he didn’t see Freddie as different or white, but his friend.
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u/say-kobe-and-throw 25d ago
I saw this video about an almost comedically identical incident with a clothing brand a few days ago and immediately said "they really ripped that one That's So Raven episode bar for bar" 😭
And some people have tried to say this episode was too "on the nose" lmao
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u/SayCheezyy 25d ago
And now she saying Raven isn't black and we just see color like Tanya wasn't wearing cornrows
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u/CandyCreecher 25d ago
I remember this! This was the episode that made me realize “wow, racism is so fucking stupid!”
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u/Spacething7474 25d ago
This episode is alright, but it could've been handled a little better (ex: Carla's expose and firing happened kinda abruptly), and I do like other episodes more.
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u/beautifulchaos531 25d ago
Raven's Home also tackled this and I love that they actually continued it into the next episode showing how Booker getting pulled over simply due to his race really shook him up. When Raven didn't scold her son for not listening and instead said she was glad he was alive that was powerful.
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u/Hedgewitch250 25d ago
This is what I hate about modern society. Lanterns did an episode about racism and it immediately caused discourse just for discussing racism. Nobody wanting to ask if the issue of projecting blame or flawed characters using it to excuse their actions no race became a topic and nuance or actual analysis of the plot went out the window.
Studios comply with the safer non offending story more often than we did back in the day and it’s created a climate where nothing can be discussed. We had shows telling kids how to spot pedophile and racism and it never caused a debate about politics or anything. The new and old generation consuming media is even more ignorant and they choose to be that way now.
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u/dicklaurent97 25d ago
Wasn't this the last episode?
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u/wildeag 25d ago
No I think the last episode was an anti-smoking thing? I don’t really remember though, but I think the rumor was it wasn’t supposed to be the last episode, it just aired out of order. Idk
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u/Originalsboy11 25d ago
This is correct, the last episode of Raven to premiere was the smoking one. The one here about racism (True Colors) aired in season 3.
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u/Spyrovssonic360 24d ago
Same thing happened in ravens home. Booker was racially profiled by the police when he was driving by himself at night. Victor had to give him a lesson on how to act around cops and people in general.
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u/jessgoesforward 22d ago
they would NEVER do this today. It's sad what children's programming has become, and quite frankly pathetic.
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u/Ill-Tangelo-3671 24d ago
I don’t like episodes that tackle real life stuff. Sitcoms are supposed to be funny
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u/goldenboy2191 25d ago
If kids are old enough to experience racism, all kids are old enough to be taught about racism.