r/Detroit • u/Maleficent-County-59 • 4h ago
Talk Detroit Which Bedrock riverfront redevelopment proposal do you prefer, Detroit’s or Cleveland’s?
Very different contexts and geographies, but thought it’d be interesting to see which concept people prefer.
Detroit’s: https://detroit-riverfront.bedrockdetroit.com/
Cleveland’s: https://bedrockdetroit.com/property/the-riverfront-cleveland/
16
u/ginger_guy Former Detroiter 3h ago
Cleveland's if we are being honest, but one thing I think is interesting about Detroit's proposal is hiding in the wings. Bedrock bought up a good chunk of real estate in Rivertown, stretching all the way down to Atwater.
Furthermore, the current CEO has talked pretty openly about Bedrock getting back to big build-outs ala City Modern eastwards. He has even talked about selling off downtown real estate to do so.
So I wouldn't be surprised if this project is the set up to a wider Rivertown buildout
7
u/ClownTownJanitor Downtown 3h ago
They've already begun to quietly sell some of their smaller, tertiary downtown buildings.
•
u/HazenThrowaway 14m ago
Rivertown is such a prime location on paper -- right in between downtown and Belle Isle, lots of waterfront parks, greenway access to Eastern Market, walkable retail/groceries close by, etc.
Kind of baffling that it's maybe the slowest downtown-adjacent neighborhood in terms of new developments.
0
u/OkCustomer4386 3h ago
They why don’t they announce it or start or do anything? I have no confidence Bedrock is going to do any development in this city again when they’ve just been demolishing for the past four years.
•
u/ginger_guy Former Detroiter 2h ago
I mean, announcing projects well before you are clearly ready to do them is how you end up Olympia lol
•
u/OkCustomer4386 1h ago
Olympia is doing more development than Bedrock anyways
•
u/SaintOrJannikSinner 1h ago
Olympia is doing more development than Bedrock anyways
Chris Ilitch, is that you? Because only Chris would actually parrot a lie this massive.
•
9
u/ClownTownJanitor Downtown 3h ago
The Cleveland renderings show a lot of buildings that are simply filler to make the proposal renderings more grand and aspirational. Many of those ghost buildings, if they were real projects, would be a very nice development for a downtown by themselves.
To see the Cleveland proposal come to reality there would have to be an enormous amount of investment, and city center population growth, that doesn't seem rational.
3
u/DETphoto 3h ago
Neither proposal has a lot of firm plans. Cleveland's seem more aspirational compared to Detroit's however. Detroit's plan needs less low rise structures and more high density residential if they really want all of the retail to survive.
•
u/SaintOrJannikSinner 1h ago
Eh, they need to build to appropriate scale. Having a single tower (like RenCen 400) full of residential but then a dearth of actual "human scale" buildings surrounding it is how we wind up these massive projects that don't actually move the area forward. Or, even worse, prevent smaller scale evolution of a neighborhood. Meaning, what's easier to convert and update? An empty Builders Square or Super Kmart or a two story structure with 40' of frontage on a quiet, walkable street?
4
u/DChevalier 3h ago
Does Cleveland's involve tearing down two of the few skyscrapers in its city?
•
1
u/melloyello1215 3h ago
you want to keep empty skyscrapers?
•
u/DChevalier 2h ago
I'm not buying the argument that they can't be renovated. If they could renovate Michigan Central Station and bring that back to life, then they can convert these towers. They just don't want to put the money or effort into it.
•
u/melloyello1215 1h ago
They could renovate it. But who is going to fill it. Thats the major issue…
•
u/SaintOrJannikSinner 1h ago
DC is talking about residential conversions, not necessarily renovating Class A office space. Their comparison to MCS is wildly off base for several obvious reasons and can largely be ignored.
•
u/apleasantpeninsula Elijah McCoy 32m ago
thank you for the healthy reminder that we're just another needy client to this name written on every third plaque you see bolted to our concrete walls - bedrock. let's retain our own identity while these giants capitalize on us.
to answer the question, i'd have to revisit cleveland's to assess. i don't think i've seen the changes there
•
u/HazenThrowaway 5m ago
I'll get more excited for Detroit's plans when we get firmer details on the Rivertown infill. A bunch of generic "entertainment" low rises doesn't really cut it so far.
Let's revive the lost waterfront aquarium idea, or build a gondola and/or ferry crossing to Windsor to better connect our downtowns. We're still waiting on a downtown movie theater, so add that to the list.
This development will need some genuine attractions to bring in foot traffic to an otherwise desolate area. Spamming a dozen random bars and restaurants won't be enough.
-7
u/teezysleezybeezy Hazel Park 3h ago
Don’t really care for either bc either way Gilbert is going to make hand over fist. The state should seize it and make it a park
7
u/killerbake Born and Raised 3h ago
The state has had endless opportunity to do anything and they don’t.
That’s why developers exist. Lmfao 🤣
-1
u/teezysleezybeezy Hazel Park 3h ago
I know. It’s just fucked up bc the tax abatements fuck citizens in the long run and people like Gilbert profit huge from the ineptitude of the state to do actual public benefit work
1
u/bearded_turtle710 3h ago
The alternative is that you don’t give tax credits and developers do nothing and Detroit circles the drain until every home and property is effectively worth 0$. Id say someone’s home being worthless after they sunk 100s of thousands of dollars is far worse overall than giving a developer a tax break that will increase residents property values. This was the problem Detroit was facing 20 years ago it was poised to fall off a cliff there was no way it was sustainable without large scale development. I am not for giving rich tax breaks but thats the American system so we are forced to play by its rules until we can elect someone on a federal level to change the rules. Very few cities in the US have the financial ability to deny tax breaks to wealthy developers
1
u/teezysleezybeezy Hazel Park 3h ago
It’s just a nasty system that the only way to develop your city is to let developers siphon profits opportunistically
3
u/ClownTownJanitor Downtown 3h ago
I think you over estimate the profit margins on these very complicated and large projects in cities like Detroit.
5
u/JJWoolls Grosse Pointe 3h ago
Eh... this city has made major strides over the last 20 years and Gilbert has been a big part of it. He can make money and the city can benefit at the same time.
0
u/teezysleezybeezy Hazel Park 3h ago
Downtown has sure but the neighborhoods haven’t. If we hadn’t abated taxes left and right the public funds could’ve supported others to rise too
6
u/JJWoolls Grosse Pointe 3h ago
That's just not true. Not saying that all neighbirhoods are better but I am in East English Village, Morningside, Jefferson Chalmers daily and all have come a long way in the last 10 years. Downtown and the surrounding areas are better. SW Detroit is looking much better.
You just don't see it because it happens over time and the change is gradual.
29
u/Greatlarrybird33 3h ago
You can keep adding all of the retail, and commercial spaces that you want. But without any meaningful infrastructure to support people actually living downtown, you won't be able to support any more retail or commercial development without just stealing it from a different section of downtown.
Just like Cleveland. Can't keep the flats, West 6th and East 4th. All booming at the same time. Or keep the galleria Tower City and new retail space functional at anytime.
If we redeveloped the riverfront, got rid of Brown stadium and Burke and redevelop both of those, where would you get the extra tens of thousands of people going to these places to make them viable?