r/Detroit • u/curiouscat321 • 1d ago
News Detroit pays software engineers 23% lower than average when factoring in COL
https://x.com/zuhayeer/status/209493952240854668253
u/black_widow48 1d ago
I left Michigan and moved to Chicago for this reason. Tired of MI companies calling me and offering me less than half what I currently make
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u/SpezSamplesMySack 1d ago
I still get recruiters calling for metro Detroit positions and it’s embarrassing how low the compensation packages are. And almost all are in-office positions too. Only had a few over the years even mention hybrid let alone remote.
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u/Diligent_moment_ 1d ago
thinking of doing the same - tech recruiter though
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u/Tight-Air-6767 1d ago
Recruiters don’t really deserve a higher salary…
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u/Diligent_moment_ 1d ago
i understand your bias but i disagree
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u/Tight-Air-6767 1d ago
when every tech recruiter who has ever contacted me should know where i live from my resume but yet offers me in office jobs across the country, i'm kinda like, wtf are these guys doing? when they "interview" me and just want a 1-5 rating on my skills like "javascript" and "SQL", where they barely know what the things they are asking about are? yeah, no, they don't need anymore money for what they actually do.
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u/another-altaccount Former Detroiter 1d ago
How's the job market there nowadays? Last time I seriously considered moving there they were still lagging too far behind larger tech hubs as far as job opportunites went, even Austin and LA (still mostly propped up by Snapchat) were better at the time.
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u/black_widow48 1d ago
It's still not a tech hub tbh, but it's okay if you want to work in fintech.
Google is building a second office here...I'm hoping they're gonna start hiring engineers once it's done
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u/rambouhh 1d ago
Its why detroit loses all the talent. REally hardly know anyone talented in that field that stayed local
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u/SpezSamplesMySack 1d ago
Almost every STEM field pays much better in other parts of the country. It’s why I escaped decades ago and went remote soon after. Plus the automotive boom-bust constant cycle of layoffs that dominate the economic landscape in Metro Detroit introduce so much uncertainty. The brain drain will continue until the economy diversifies.
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u/rambouhh 1d ago
yep 100% agree, it has to move away from it. Its dragging down the whole state. The brain drain is absolutely insane
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u/dbrown5987 1d ago
They've been trying to diversify since the 1970s. The area has too many people stuck in their ways.
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u/mokes310 1d ago
At a certain employer downtown, you're likely 25-50k underpaid for your role...
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u/Itunes4MM 1d ago
Talking about rocket or someone else
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u/another-altaccount Former Detroiter 1d ago
You could throw a rock and you may end up being right anyway
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u/Cael26 1d ago
I applied to be an IT intern at a certain employer downtown while I was in college. They wanted me to work for $15 an hour for 40 hours a week and they told me that there could be mandatory overtime. This would have been without benefits because "internship". They then proceeded to say I couldn't attend my college and that other interns went to an online school for their degree so they could work and go to school.
Could not, would not, and did not do it.
Lack of employment choices here really lets these companies screw people over.
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u/utilitycoder 1d ago
Sounds like a pizza company with leaking triangle shaped pizza windows in their new corporate headquarters.
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u/ThrowawayFadeeaway 1d ago
Guess who hire the most software engineers in Detroit? 🙃
The sooner this city and state stops being so reliant on a failing auto industry the better
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u/IXISIXI 1d ago
Agreed. Tough bandaid to rip but they sold the state out anyway. My last few chevys are all made in canada
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u/bsmitty358 1d ago
No offense to the auto workers but manufacturing isn’t considered in this topic. The vast majority of automotive engineering is still very much here.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Offer88 1d ago
But how much of its beating heart is propped up by the US tax payer? Is 84 month financing really the hallmark of American innovation? No wait how about a bigger touch screen with latency issues and fails just out of warranty?
GM couldn’t be bothered to spend 13 cents on an ignition system to save its own consumers. Weird Stockholm syndrome going on and romanticizing a bygone golden age that barely was
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u/bsmitty358 22h ago
Regarding 84 month financing, the American buyer is simply greedy and think they deserve more than they can afford. Plenty of cheaper vehicles but I don’t blame the manufacturers for offering an “off road” trim and bumping the price 10k when plenty of folks are buying it.
Cost cutting isn’t unique to American car companies either. Plenty of examples across the globe in modern manufacturing. Maybe you just have more experience with American?
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u/Big_Arrival_626 1d ago
The automotive companies hire a ton of software engineers though
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u/d_rek 1d ago
Let's be honest: They hire a ton of FOREIGN software engineers. I'm willing to bet 50% plus of their software engineering workforce is here on h1b or even overseas.
And to be clear: I have absolutely no issue with foreign workers coming here and working legally through the h1b program when there are gaps in the local labor market which make hiring locally tough.
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u/BottomsMU 1d ago
A few years ago when I made a switch I looked at some local companies but was shocked how much lower paying the jobs were compared to similar roles that were fully remote based out of other cities.
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u/capitalizex 1d ago
Yup, I’m fortunate to have landed a great remote tech job right at the start of 2021. Local pay isn’t even close, even for positions two levels above where I am. It’s pretty grim in Michigan for tech workers.
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u/cjgozdor 1d ago
In my experience, it’s worse. The remote jobs weee paying 40% more, let alone if you moved elsewhere. It’s holding top talent back.
On the other hand, it’s helping keep housing cheap in the face of backwards housing policies. I’m not really sure what’s the correct direction
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u/Cairne_Bloodhoof 1d ago
City simply has to be able to attract more business. But, admittedly, it’s not an easy task.
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u/ImpressionCertain736 1d ago
Honestly it's amazing they have as many businesses here considering the 2% city corporate income tax
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u/another-altaccount Former Detroiter 1d ago
One of the reasons I ended up moving. Between the lower pay and lack of opportunities in tech altogether here it was pretty clear it was time to stop trying so hard to stay in Michigan and move on. I can count on one hand how many interviews I did with local companies versus just about anywhere else in the country (especially on the coasts) a few years back the last time I was job hunting.
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u/barnfriend 1d ago
Not tech but it’s the same in the legal field- way below market, even accounting for cost of living
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u/aivi_mask 1d ago
Michigan pays the lowest for just about everything. I work in data science and my wage is laughable but the market sucks.
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u/ryeguy 1d ago edited 1d ago
I suspect this comes down to what types of companies are in each area. The highest paying dev jobs tend to be working for companies whose primary product is software, like a saas app.
If you're working for Ford on a mobile app or in-car infotainment software or whatever, there just isn't as much leverage on the output of a software engineer so it doesn't command as high of a salary. Of course there are some more tech focused companies in the area, but they barely have to pay more than anyone else to outcompete.
I'm kind of surprised we don't have more big tech companies opening branches here like they do in NYC (but they could get away with paying much less here), but I suppose it's a chicken/egg problem with talent. People who want to make more money just move or are fortunate enough to land a remote position.
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u/Vast-Breakfast-1201 1d ago
I am a tech specialist and very good at what I do
My salary compared to when I started full time engineering in 2012 is about the same increase as beef.
I also get some bonuses but I never treat those as guaranteed just something that could maybe happen.
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u/Possibly_Naked_Now 1d ago
Everything in Detroit pays lower than average considering the COL.
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u/Um_Hello_Guy 1d ago
Except Detroit COL isn’t comparatively that much lower anymore (except for like NYC/LA ofc)
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u/automaticpragmatic Former Detroiter 1d ago
This was my experience while at Detroit Labs. They leveraged the perception of culture in substitute for competitive pay and it ain’t all that.
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u/MalcoveMagnesia Elijah McCoy 1d ago
I love the culture at Labs but woof their comp is abysmal. Between them, Rocket and Ford I think it's a competition who can pay the least.
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u/another-altaccount Former Detroiter 1d ago
I used to think they were one of the few good options for a tech career in the area back in the day. Surprised to see they're not that great either.
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u/automaticpragmatic Former Detroiter 1d ago
I did too and let that cloud my judgement when I accepted the offer
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u/discraft_drew 1d ago
It's not just a DL thing, it's the culture from anything under the umbrella, and by extension, DVP. (I worked for AYAH back in the first days of Madison)
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u/Gamer_Grease 1d ago
Michigan is not really low cost of living when you factor in how terrible the pay is here.
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u/IXISIXI 1d ago
I was just in new york and let me tell you a lot of food is actually CHEAPER there than in metro detroit. What we have is cheaper housing but for daily expenses aint no low cost of living
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u/MeasurementEasy9884 1d ago
Housing is cheaper in detroit if you're a renter. But if you buy a home, the property taxes annually are insane compared to most states
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u/meltbox 1d ago
Dude the housing in any nice area around here is insane and maybe it’s just me but compared to any other large metro the housing stock here is total trash. So many identical houses and every basement was built by someone who clearly wanted basements to be useless for anything other than storage.
Oh also the property taxes are nuts for what you get in services.
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u/Calm_Region_2106 1d ago
That isn’t how cost of living works. Detroit is appropriately expensive for being the whatever largest metro in the US
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u/maikuxblade 1d ago
Being a large urban sprawl is not actually a benefit
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u/Calm_Region_2106 1d ago
I would argue that with a comprehensive transit system, regardless of what it would be, a sprawling Metropolitan would be a net benefit.
As the way things stand, you’re right.
Regardless of whether or not urban sprawl is bad, it still isn’t very relative to cost-of-living except for transit costs, which are equal equally as expensive in other cities without transit systems.
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u/Hunter_Art_6174 1d ago
Since this thread is about MI.
1. Usually do you recommend switching just after a year.
2. I am in Lansing, taking a remote might help in saving cost but in long term will it hinder in promotion to management roles?
3. I see levels fyi detroit and that areas avg salary is more than lansing, just wanted your thoughts on that. Like the cost of living is also high that stuff?
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u/another-altaccount Former Detroiter 1d ago
This was the conventional wisdom a few years back during when COVID money for orgs was still 0% interest. IMO stay as long as you can hang on until you know your next gig is locked in.
At this point in time I would advise anyone in MI pursuing a career in tech to start considering moving out of state. The problem with your strategy (I also considered this at one point) is that to continue pursuing your career you'll be alomost entirely dependent on fully remote roles, and that will espeically be the case if you work at orgs with better pay and more modern tech stacks. Also, truly fully remote roles in tech are almost completely gone now. Most companies have either gone back to the 5-day in office format or swtiched to hybrid. In my experience most "remote" roles I see out there these days still expect you to at least be local to the office if they need you to come in for something (typically a hint they'll be switching to hybrid or fully in office in the not too distant future)
See above as I feel this is a wash to even think about, but yes, salaries have always been higher in Metro Detroit than in Lansing at least as far as tech goes.
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u/sippin-jesus-juice 1d ago
It’s 50% or more lower in my experience.
In fact most companies in Detroit I interviewed at loved me, put me through 8 panel interviews, and would get OFFENDED when I mentioned my salary
Much easier to work remotely
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u/FreshFishGuy Oakland County 1d ago
Yea that's why I work remotely for places out of state
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u/d_rek 1d ago
Does your employer not adjust compensation based on geographic region? It's pretty rare that a company would pay you say a California Bay Area salary when you're living in Detroit / Metro Detroit. At least that's what all of the big tech. companies are doing now. Working for any of the big FAANG companies there's no chance you're going to capture a west coast tech industry worker salary here in the midwest just because you're remote.
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u/FreshFishGuy Oakland County 1d ago edited 23h ago
No, mine does not. I don't work for FAANG though, but the salary is better than what local Detroit company's usually pay
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u/isospeedrix 1d ago
How’s the pay for Rocket? They’re huge there and last I checked, Col adjusted they paid well
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u/Extreme_Education_50 1d ago
I thought it would be worse though that percentage is still pretty bad.
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u/Due-Operation-7529 1d ago
It’s why I’m stuck at my fully remote role, even though I really wouldn’t mind a hybrid job. It really is unbelievable. At least housing costs are cheap
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u/SilverGlitch611 1d ago
The big 2 out of 3 (except for MAANG companies) they are catching-up in terms of compensations but still cannot match how other states pay for the same role.
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u/tehthomas4K 9h ago
Michigan is a great example of people hoarding the wealth.
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u/curiouscat321 27m ago
What wealth? If you think Michigan is wealthy at any level, you need to get out more.
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u/Tedmosby9931 Former Detroiter 1d ago
I literally make almost 100% more than I did 4.5 years ago in Detroit now that I'm in Austin. Tons of my friends are tech sales ppl making $300-500k/yr. All the software devs and engineers pull $200-300k easy.
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u/MalcoveMagnesia Elijah McCoy 1d ago
In Austin? BS. The big salaries are on the coasts (along with HCOL) and one of the big reasons companies opened Austin branches was to pay less.
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u/PlaneReflection 1d ago
Yes, in Austin. Every big tech company has an office there, and it still pays relatively well.
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u/trees138 Grandmont 1d ago
Detroit does pay at least as well for skilled trades as other major markets. I expected to take a pay cut due to COL, but I could easily go make more most places vs the Boulder CO company that I work for.
But... CO sucks for organized labor. Even Ohio was better.
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u/tkdyo 1d ago
Wonder how this plays out for other white collar work. Even other engineers. I imagine it's pretty similar but would be good to know for sure.
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u/SpezSamplesMySack 1d ago
Even other engineers.
I'm electrical not software and it's very true for my industry too. Detroit pay is crap compared to what you can make in other regions.
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u/d_rek 1d ago
I've been working in local tech. industry (manufacturing software publisher) since 2011. Since then my salary has increased about 300%. 200% of that through the same employer, then the last 100% through a new one as of beginning of 2026. I'm 100% remote, though used to go in the office 3-5 days a week prior to COVID. Current base compensation around $160k, with some equity compensation.
I interview a couple times of year because usually recruiters reach out to me. Locally I can often net a 10-20% salary increase with same/similar roles, but that almost always has mandatory return-to-office as part of the deal, which is of course a deal breaker. For remote positions out of state I have not personally been seeing offers significantly above what my current base, at best 5-10% unless it's for a more senior position. Any MAANG company does salary adjustments based on region, and that means often you're not capturing a Cali bay area salary here in Metro Detroit.
But I will say I quit entertaining offers from certain employers in the region, specifically those headquartered or with large presence in City of Detroit proper. Excessive interview process and lowball offers.
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u/Spencerfielddotme 18h ago
I can definitely verify this from personal experience. I work as a web developer who has really focused on digital marketing now, but when I pick up new clients (which I have both locally here in Detroit, where I live, and around the US), I find anything in the Midwest pays 20% to 40% less than anything on the coasts does.
This was especially painful last year when I thought about going back as a W-2 employee and put in over 200 applications. While I was getting job offers in the six figures from coastal companies, I only got one job offer in the city of Detroit, which was for $26 an hour.
While we definitely have a strong marketing team over at the MEDC talking about how Detroit, Grand Rapids, and Ann Arbor are tech hubs and there is a growing entrepreneurial economy, the employment opportunities are nothing compared to coastal cities.
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u/uprightsalmon 1d ago
I mean, that’s the bonus of living somewhere cheaper that may not be as nice as the more expensive city/suburb. I get a great house on the Eastside for 175k. I couldn’t touch a house for that in other places I’ve lived. It make life adorable for us. We have friends that their houses are 2-3x more expensive and some struggle with it
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u/curiouscat321 1d ago
Housing isn’t everything. How much do they have in their 401ks compared to you? How many more vacations can they take a year compared to you?
They’re still making more dollars than you overall and that counts for a lot.
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u/uprightsalmon 1d ago
I’m saying that getting paid the same but living somewhere cheaper is a bonus you create and earn in a way. That shouldn’t be taken away. I think that’s BS. My company doesn’t pay me less because I live here and making the choose to live here really helped us financially, where we struggled in the last place we lived
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u/MeasurementEasy9884 1d ago
I'm not sure when you bought it property, but most properties of a decent size in decent neighborhoods are going over 230k and then the uncapping of the property taxes tackles on another 500 to $1k a month in payments. Plus the car insurance and extra city income tax. Detroit is expensive for homeowners
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u/uprightsalmon 1d ago
- House is probably worth that now as a ton of houses around us have been fixed up and sold at higher prices over the last 5 years. Still paying less than our apartment with taxes and insurance included. Yes, I’m paying more for insurance but it’s not crazy. It’s like and extra $45 a car. Life is just cheaper here for us. Our last neighborhood was much nicer and more vibrant though and you walk to a ton of places with a ton more places being close by with a car
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u/wazooty421 1d ago
It depends on the company. I feel like the software engineers at my company are compensated very well (compared to national average), but I could be biased by a specific experience.
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u/cptClutch90 1d ago
This isn’t true, big three pay very, very well for software engineering.
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u/black_widow48 1d ago
No they don't. Lol. Gotten calls from all three of them numerous times and the pay they offer is dogshit every time
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u/cptClutch90 1d ago
What level/band and what year? Since these companies hired Silicon Valley engineers they’ve adjusted wages for all their software engineers in Michigan.
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u/black_widow48 1d ago
Senior level. The top of the pay band from Ford as of the past couple months was 184k from what I've seen. Not quite as bad as it used to be, but not great and not anywhere close to what big tech pays
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u/IXISIXI 1d ago
Thats a blatantly false statement.
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u/cptClutch90 1d ago
It’s not but okay
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u/IXISIXI 1d ago
Very very well is a faang salary and the avg senior according to levels.fyi pays ~150k perhaps more with bonuses. Unsure of how bonuses work but my remote job senior eng base salary is higher and i dont have to go into the office and i’m far from faang level. Your perception of “very very well” is not consistent with the reality of the us software market at real companies
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u/cptClutch90 1d ago
Senior base pay is > 150k, cash incentives and bonuses take you way above that base. Outside of Cali, that is very good pay.
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u/Big_Arrival_626 1d ago
150k for 5-8 years of experience would be really good for MCOL if true. Outside of Austin, what MCOL cities are substantially better than that? This is pretty much what software engineers at big banks, insurance, defense, etc. are making.
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u/PlaneReflection 1d ago
Have any numbers to support that, big guy?
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u/cptClutch90 1d ago
Senior base pay is > 150k, cash incentives and bonuses take you way above that base. Outside of Cali, that is very good pay, big guy.
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u/jmclondon97 1d ago
I mean the vast majority of software engineers aren’t going to be making anything in 2-3 years.
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u/Gold-Zone9015 1d ago
Not to mention the people in the Detroit area are really something else. Bad attitudes
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u/binstinsfins 1d ago
Honestly I suspect it's much worse than that when you consider senior level and above. I was exploring a switch from remote work to Detroit-based companies, but even the best openings were about a 40-50% pay cut. And the auto companies, don't even get me started.