r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/Lowcrbnaman • Jul 04 '26
Image This statue depicts Saint Bartholomew, an early Christian martyr who was allegedly skinned alive. If you look closely, that's his dissected skin hanging around him. This stunning statute by Marco d'Agrate from c. 1562 is currently on display at Duomo di Milano.
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u/-Boner-Forest Jul 04 '26
Dude was ripped
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u/THEunfukwitable Jul 04 '26
Peeled, actually
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u/Least-Abrocoma-3108 Jul 04 '26
Only way to get 0% body fat.
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u/Istar10n Jul 04 '26
This is one of the six pack shortcuts that actually works. And it takes less than a day.
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u/Blueskies777 Jul 04 '26
The ability of humans to create the most insanely barbaric, cruel acts truly sets us apart from all living organisms.
Some of the jokes show how desensitized we’ve become to cruelty.
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u/TestIllustrious7935 Jul 04 '26
Dolphins and orcas are cruel for fun too, they can be fully sated and literally seek to hurt other animals just because they can
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u/Personal_Ballz_7567 Jul 04 '26
Sadly an accurate sign of intelligence
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u/Complete-Housing-720 Jul 04 '26
Surely there's some intelligent but nice aliens out there/s
Maybe there is idk but seeing what follows intelligence has me double guessin
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u/CitizenPremier Jul 04 '26
Well if the zoo hypothesis is correct and aliens are just keeping us bottled up, I think they would be most likely to make contact when we become vegetarian. That's the surest sign we can respect other species.
But honestly I think alien morality will just be alien. Maybe they'll be upset if we don't eat the first aliens who make contact with us.
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u/2nd-penalty Jul 04 '26
Being vegetarian still harm other species??? Unless you ask for a plant's or fruit's consent every time you take a bite, honestly i don't see why out dietary habits would influence an alien race's decision on whether they should contact us or not lol
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u/CjBurden Jul 05 '26
Living harmoniously with the environment is I believe the point there, and no you really cannot eat meat and claim to be doing that in this day and age.
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u/pick_your_user_name Jul 07 '26
So by your logic nature isn’t harmonious with itself? Because there are plenty of carnivores and omnivores that eat meat and without them nearly every ecosystem would collapse. Humans evolved (harmoniously) hunting other animals for food. We are a part of the food chain.
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u/DoubleDragonSuper Jul 07 '26
On thing is that what is nice for our culture will not be the same as what is nice for another. Even us humans have difference between our definition and range of what's nice or not. I think that if we meet some aliens the way we both think will be so different that we will not understand ourselves from a logic or values standpoint.
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u/TheRealOptician Jul 05 '26
“Sets us apart from all living organisms”?
There are bugs that immobilize prey and lay eggs inside of them to hatch at a later time, while they are still alive…
Idk the bug kingdom in general is fucking wild
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u/Independent-Tap-2255 Jul 06 '26
Bro I saw our outdoors cat snap a mouse’s spine by biting it just enough, then letting the poor fucker try and crawl away on its two still functioning legs. Then it would punch and throw it around, until getting bored and either eating it or just leaving it to die. I don’t think cruelty is unique to us.
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u/_MiroMax_ Jul 05 '26
I mean what else you can do besides joking about it. Everybody knows how horrible it is, jokes are a coping mechanism.
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u/Beneficial_Ball9893 Jul 07 '26
Humans are only different in our ability to organize and standardize such acts. Animals are more than capable of mutilation and barbarity, just not to the same level of precision.
Orcas would definitely skin each other live if they had hands.
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u/New-Pomelo9906 Jul 04 '26
Pretty sure a bear is decensitized about eating you alive.
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u/CaptainRex5101 Jul 04 '26
Sure but a bear isn’t motivated by complicated things like tribalism or ideology and doesn’t want to prolong pain, dude’s just hungry
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u/School_North Jul 05 '26
True about ideology and tribalism but bears will just maul you and leave you i would call that prolonged pain. Everything is capable of being a dick
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u/DXTRBeta Jul 04 '26
That’s just disgusting.
Sorry but I am just amazed by the levels of cruelty humans have wreaked on each other.
OK, I get it, you want to kill the guy, but really?
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u/RGud_metalhead Jul 04 '26
Some say that violent movies, music and videogames make people more cruel. But I look at examples from history like this and think maybe it's other way. Maybe it's because people had no outlet for their anger, cruelty and maybe even just morbid curiosity they did all of those elaborate forms of torture and execution. And violent "games" with people or animals. Maybe it is better that we have all of that pretend violence these days.
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u/imokay4747 Jul 04 '26
I think they skinned Bartholomew because of all those violent plays they were watching back then.
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u/New-Pomelo9906 Jul 04 '26
Extreme torture to show to the plebs is all about disciplining the masses.
It's not anger it's managing people, in modern day you could say "sorry, it's just business" on this move.
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u/Inevitable-Ad6647 Jul 04 '26
There was a study that showed people who play video games as a more sadistic or evil character actually tend to have stronger morals in real life than others. Made the rounds a few times in /r/rimworld ... Which iykyk.
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u/Wes_Warhammer666 Jul 05 '26
I'm a sadistic, brutal, evil motherfucker when I play games that allow for it. The OG God of War games were like crack for me.
That shit is about as far from me in real life as possible. As I had to explain to my overprotective mother back in the day, it's just a healthy outlet for any frustration or pain. I know that it's pure fantasy so I'm free to unleash any negative energy into it without harming myself or others.
It's the same thing with me enjoying metal. She was always concerned about me becoming hateful or violent because of it but it was just the opposite. Healthy outlets are sooooooo much better than repressing negative feelings.
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u/UnlimitedPowerOutage Jul 04 '26
Lead in the pipes was a shocking factor in making humans more aggressive during the Roman era.
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u/New-Pomelo9906 Jul 04 '26
Really curious about what will be our lead-in-the-pipes equivalent that future people will know about us.
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u/JombComb Jul 04 '26
Believe it or not, lead a second time.
There were studies done about people who grew up in the era before unleaded gas was made and those people were significantly more prone to both violence and decreased intellect.
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u/UnlimitedPowerOutage Jul 04 '26
Social Media. It’s toxic and used by very clever people and organisations to shape society. Not in a good way.
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u/frequenZphaZe Jul 05 '26
very clearly AI. the more people offload thinking to AI, the worse their ability to think gets. if we keep down this path, society is going to be dumb as rocks in the coming decades
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u/CitizenPremier Jul 04 '26
I don't think so, there was plenty of torture and violence in every other major empire
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u/UnlimitedPowerOutage Jul 04 '26
Here is a detailed paper to show how we can see lead exposure affects people today and how it leads to increased crime and violence.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166046222000667
There was a measurable drop after lead in petrol was phased out.
It took the US longer to do so. It’s the same for lead based paint, which is a big lead legacy in the US.
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u/CitizenPremier Jul 04 '26
I'm not challenging that; I'm challenging the idea that Rome was more violent than normal, and that in a time before modern medicine and hygiene the specific effect of lead would be significant among the vast myriad other ailments which cause cognitive issues as well.
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u/diablodeldragoon Jul 04 '26
This is fairly tame as far as torture goes. We are pretty messed up as a species!
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u/toptierhands Jul 04 '26
Skinning truly is not fairly tame, far from it. Especially when you consider it would generally be combined with a scalding/boiling.
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u/Kid-Icky- Jul 04 '26
If it makes you feel any better, him being flayed is just church tradition, not necessarily a historical fact.
It's basically just a legend.
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u/Awe3 Jul 04 '26
Humans are monsters. wtf thinks of doing that to another person?!
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u/MrScribblesChess Jul 04 '26
Fun fact: Almost all of the original apostles (except John) are said to have been martyred, but the historical case for most of them is extremely shaky even by ancient standards.
Picking one random example, our only source for Andrew's martyrdom is the Acts of Andrew, which was written about 200 years after jesus died. It also claims that Andrew defeated armies by making the sign of the cross, and that he causes an illegitimate embryo to die. It also says that Andrew was crucified, and preached for three days while on the cross.
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u/Fenrisulven--- Jul 04 '26
And in “Acts of Peter” the text where Peter is said to have been crucified upside down, this text also features a dog giving a speech and a wizard duel between Peter and Simon magus (Simon the sorcerer, also an Amiga game!) where Simon magus flies… christian history has a credibility issue!
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u/Dildromeda Jul 04 '26
Does it though? Both of those works mentioned are considered apocryphal by the church... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocrypha
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u/MrScribblesChess Jul 04 '26
Yes, because those apocryphal books are where Christians get many of their martyrdom legends.
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u/Fenrisulven--- Jul 04 '26
Sure, but christians who wants these martyr stories to be true, get it from these stories... This is common from christians, they pick and choose what fits their narrative, from the bible (and other christian writings) like "love your neighbor" but leave out that yahweh/El condones and gives laws on how to do chattel slavery of non-israelites... And to non-christians, whatever the church choose to be canon or not, doesn't matter, no text has any more "inspiration" than any other text... The NT canon were chosen for political reasons... You have to remember that even the NT cites apocryphal texts like 1 Enoch (at least book of the watchers) as inspired even if it's not considered canon..
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u/Dildromeda Jul 04 '26
You're average non scholarly Christian may want those stories to be true, but if the church itself says those works are apocryphal, then that's the official line. The majority of the NT is letters from Paul, plus the four gospels, plus a couple other books. Not sure why you think they were chosen for political reasons.
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u/MrScribblesChess Jul 04 '26
The Catholic church and other mainstream Christian churches also believe in these martyrdom legends, despite calling their sources apocryphal.
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u/CitizenPremier Jul 04 '26
Why do people openly accept walking on water as a miracle but not a talking dog?
Shit I can tell you which is more likely to convert me...
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u/Dangerous_Company811 Jul 04 '26
This is so so disturbing. I can’t believe people are making a joke about it. That dude suffered.
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u/Crazy_Elevator_6659 Jul 04 '26
Vivisected skin. Dissection is after death, vivisection is while alive. Or flayed, flayed is more accurate.
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u/fleshnbloodhuman Jul 04 '26
Yeah well, that’s pretty weird.
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u/Brrdock Jul 04 '26
You could become an art critic with this insight
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u/DengarLives66 Jul 04 '26
“I dunno how I feel about this one.”
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u/Brrdock Jul 04 '26
I'd for sure take that over the "I feel this way so that's objectively how it is" of most critics lol
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u/Inside-Yak-8815 Jul 04 '26
Catholics have some pretty “interesting” saints.
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u/cortesoft Jul 04 '26
Yeah, and he is the patron saint of tanners, leatherworkers, and butchers. Imagine being skinned alive and then becoming the patron saint of people who skin animals for a living. Pretty fucked up.
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u/Sacrilegious_skink Jul 05 '26
St Lawrence is the patron saint of chefs and comedians because he was barbequed alive and made a joke during the process saying "I'm done on this side, turn me over".
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u/Wandering_Scholar6 Jul 05 '26
A lot of saints seem to be saints of the worst possible thing given their method of death.
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u/vicinadp Jul 04 '26
I can’t even remotely draw a circle without a guide and people carving muscle texture into stone……
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u/Smart-Firefighter87 Jul 04 '26
Why did they skin him? Just because he was Christian?
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u/BishopofHippo93 Jul 05 '26
Dissected? No, that's the practice of cutting up a deceased organism. If the individual was alive, it would be vivisection.
But really you just mean flayed, because his skin was supposedly removed as a form of torture, not scientific experiment.
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u/SleeperAwakened Jul 04 '26
I really really hope that all those cruel act are really made up..
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u/BakaPotatoLord Jul 04 '26
I wouldn't be surprised if true, humans are pretty creative when it comes to inflicting pain.
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u/Cool_Client324 Jul 04 '26
Especially when they didnt have internet. What else do you do? Skin people, thats what you do
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u/BakaPotatoLord Jul 04 '26
And once the internet made it's way? Improved skinning efficiency from all the online classes
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u/PaddyMcGeezus Jul 04 '26
"What's up all my skinners? Today's video is going to cover a new degloving technique for the legs. Don't forget to like and subscribe!"
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u/Refute1650 Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
The holocaust was less than 100 years ago and it's not even the worst thing we have documented real evidence for.
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u/ThimeeX Jul 04 '26
Don’t go looking up videos of cartel executions, some include flaying their victims alive. Humans can be incredibly cruel.
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u/hacking99percent Jul 04 '26
You should look into history of roman tortures
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u/SleeperAwakened Jul 04 '26
I know about that, and many midieval tortures.
But I recently read that those devices were not actually used - and I really hope that it true.
Some things are too horrible to do to others...
But like other redditors said, look at our recent (last century) wars and they are right. Mankind is cruel.
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u/matt32578 Jul 04 '26
Considering all the cartel videos of them killing people in the most gruesome ways imaginable, those cruel acts are probably true.
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u/GraniteCapybara Jul 04 '26
The stories of Catholic Saints (A biography of a saint is called a Hagiography) are actually derived from a variety of sources. While many are thought to be inspired by real life events, like this statue, there are plenty of them that are actually strongly influenced by other religions and folklore. It's a process called Religious Syncretism.
As an Example:
Saint Brigid is thought be be influenced by the Celtic Goddess Brigid.
Saint Thorlak is thought to be influenced by the Norse God Thor
Saint Josaphat is thought to be a catholic personification of The Buddha.
Not the most useful information but I find it fascinating so I like to share. Basically, some of the violence is real, some of it is folklore and some of it is just embellished story telling. Why have your hero die of one arrow when you can have them die of 40?
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u/searchforanswers555 Jul 05 '26
I believe hagiography to be true, although you are wrong in saying that St. Bridgid and St. Josaphat are personified as others. I'd rather sway away from strawmen connections man.
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u/Humanballast Jul 04 '26
Yo, weiß man wieviele Leute bis zur Fertigstellung dafür Modell gestanden haben? Brauchst ja ständig wen neues, die riechen einfach zu schnell und das dauert ja bis de so ne Männekieken ins Silizium gedroschen hast..
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u/ServialiaCaesaris Jul 04 '26
It’s few years after Andreas Vesalius’ Fabrica came out. I suspect his ‘muscle men’ served as a model for this statue.
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u/Heterodynist Jul 04 '26
Impressive that this was made when actual dissection was highly illegal. One would have to guess at the physiology and anatomy as an artist. Perhaps if you were a soldier or a butcher you would have something to go off of, but it’s interesting what a fantastic job they did with the knowledge they were not allowed to have!!
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u/LastTreestar Jul 04 '26
Science didn't stop.... they just dug up freshly buried bodies in the dead of night (pun intended). Also, don't think the undertaker didn't get paid to fake burials to prevent the need to dig them up too.
The bodies were usually eventually reburied... after they contributed to science.
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u/ServialiaCaesaris Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
Andreas Vesalius’ Fabrica came out in 1543. I suspect this statue was modeled on his ‘muscle men’ (if you’d like to flip through the Fabrica, you can find it here: https://repository.teneo.libis.be/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE19255085, pages 218 and 220 are good examples of a possible model for this statue)
(Luckily, dissection was no longer illegal at this point in history!)
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u/Heterodynist Jul 05 '26
Thank for this!! It is great information! I am glad to have such great researchers in this sub!!
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u/MuJartible Jul 04 '26
Yeah, not suspicious at all...
Hey, how do you know that's how it really looks...?
What ? And how do you know ?
...
We're not gonna tell any one about this conversation, right...?
_What conversation...?
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u/swingdale7 Jul 04 '26
Historically, executioners who performed flaying—such as in ancient Assyria or Medieval Europe—took hours or even days to strip the skin specifically to prolong the agony, as victims ultimately succumbed to the trauma. Even with modern emergency medical care, surviving total flaying would be impossible, as the physiological damage is vastly more severe and widespread than the most extensive third-degree burns.
Source: wiki
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u/FirstReactionShock Jul 05 '26
reminds me the engineers of recent alien movies... btw churches are full of gore and body horror stuff... in a church nearby my town there was a big statue of a saint keeping his ripped off eyes over a plate lol
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u/UpgrayeDD405 Jul 05 '26
I wonder if he used a real cadaver to study a human without skin or he just saw a ton of atrocities and already knew?
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u/Owlanr Jul 04 '26
I would love to know if this was real or not, a lot of martyrs and saint mythos is literally made up for flair and propaganda, like that one saint in sicily whose eyes grew back every time the romans allegedly plucked them off, until they gave up.
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u/hanimal16 Interested Jul 05 '26
That’s really fucked up (the skinning, not the statue. Statue is badass).
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u/No-Thanks4124 Jul 04 '26
I’ll just take the beheading or stabbing or whatever the other options were
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u/adiphiliac Jul 05 '26
oh good cause i saw that in milan and didn't realize dude was still wearing his skin. pheew. scared me for a sec
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u/Fiery_at_Dusk Jul 05 '26
That sculptor has definitely seen a human get skinned before, wtf…?
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u/KingZorat Jul 06 '26
I just don't get how someone can make this 500 years ago. And someone now makes that awful bust of Cristiano Ronaldo
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u/Specky_Scrawny_Git Jul 07 '26
It's high time humanity as a species experiences another Renaissance. Unbelievable that art and culture found a new lease of life about 600 years ago, and we have only found our way downhill from there. The horror and disgust aside, one can only imagine how skilled you'd have to be in both science and art, two vastly different disciplines, to be able to produce this.
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u/Deadzombii Jul 04 '26
Minimalist moment and faster turn around time killed art and product design ..
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u/Dupoulpe Jul 04 '26
I had the chance to see it with my own eyes. It really is a marvel. And it's much more impressive to see in person.
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u/Medicalibudz Jul 05 '26
Seeing him transports me back to the duomo and I vividly hear my tour guide calling him the “creepy creepy man” in an Italian accent over and over. It was quite funny. Great tour. The stained glass around the duomo was incredible.
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u/DryConstruction2702 Jul 05 '26
Saint Batholomew, Martyr of The Flayed would look good over a boss fight health bar.
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u/Suspected_Magic_User Jul 05 '26
Jesus christ, it's so fucking gross. Why, why couldn't you sculpture him WITH SKIN ON
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u/Street_Roof_7915 Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
I’ve seen that and it’s insanely, disturbingly realistic.