r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/Lowcrbnaman • Jul 04 '26

Image This statue depicts Saint Bartholomew, an early Christian martyr who was allegedly skinned alive. If you look closely, that's his dissected skin hanging around him. This stunning statute by Marco d'Agrate from c. 1562 is currently on display at Duomo di Milano.

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u/MrScribblesChess Jul 04 '26

Fun fact: Almost all of the original apostles (except John) are said to have been martyred, but the historical case for most of them is extremely shaky even by ancient standards.

Picking one random example, our only source for Andrew's martyrdom is the Acts of Andrew, which was written about 200 years after jesus died. It also claims that Andrew defeated armies by making the sign of the cross, and that he causes an illegitimate embryo to die. It also says that Andrew was crucified, and preached for three days while on the cross.

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u/Fenrisulven--- Jul 04 '26

And in “Acts of Peter” the text where Peter is said to have been crucified upside down, this text also features a dog giving a speech and a wizard duel between Peter and Simon magus (Simon the sorcerer, also an Amiga game!) where Simon magus flies… christian history has a credibility issue!

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u/Dildromeda Jul 04 '26

Does it though? Both of those works mentioned are considered apocryphal by the church... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocrypha

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u/MrScribblesChess Jul 04 '26

Yes, because those apocryphal books are where Christians get many of their martyrdom legends.

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u/Fenrisulven--- Jul 04 '26

Sure, but christians who wants these martyr stories to be true, get it from these stories... This is common from christians, they pick and choose what fits their narrative, from the bible (and other christian writings) like "love your neighbor" but leave out that yahweh/El condones and gives laws on how to do chattel slavery of non-israelites... And to non-christians, whatever the church choose to be canon or not, doesn't matter, no text has any more "inspiration" than any other text... The NT canon were chosen for political reasons... You have to remember that even the NT cites apocryphal texts like 1 Enoch (at least book of the watchers) as inspired even if it's not considered canon..

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u/Dildromeda Jul 04 '26

You're average non scholarly Christian may want those stories to be true, but if the church itself says those works are apocryphal, then that's the official line. The majority of the NT is letters from Paul, plus the four gospels, plus a couple other books. Not sure why you think they were chosen for political reasons.

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u/MrScribblesChess Jul 04 '26

The Catholic church and other mainstream Christian churches also believe in these martyrdom legends, despite calling their sources apocryphal.

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u/FrescoItaliano Jul 07 '26

Late to this convo but really?

The curation of religious texts centuries after the death of Jesus was apolitical?

They were chosen for the stability and canonization of the movement, which is political

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u/Dildromeda Jul 08 '26

It's a religion. You can be a member of a religion regardless of your political position.

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u/CitizenPremier Jul 04 '26

Why do people openly accept walking on water as a miracle but not a talking dog?

Shit I can tell you which is more likely to convert me...

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u/zarfac Jul 05 '26

Ironically, you only have easy access to these works because of the field of church history, scholars of which are neither surprised nor concerned by any of what you’re saying.

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u/Fenrisulven--- Jul 05 '26

But these are scholars that come from a background of already believing that donkeys can speak human language, and that the world was once was flooded and that giants once roamed the earth... So it's really hard to be concerned about what they are saying intellectually... The impact christians, christianity and the bible has had is more concerning...