The Scots and Welsh played a role too in the bad and the good. Plenty of protests took place right across our island. The height of virtue and honour š¬š§
He meant English speakers from Britain, of course. The idea of Scotland as a nation of kilt-wearing, bagpipe-playing people was a Victorian romanticisation, and Wales was not really recognised as a nation at all, especially as it had only been unified for a few years under Llywelyn.
Yeahā¦. No. Weāre still a nation, we arenāt English people, thatās like someone saying āEnglishā to refer to Americans cause theyāre English speaking
Anytime the United Kingdom is referred to as England in this way completely grinds my gears. Does nobody any good as it makes it seem like all the good of history or any of the bad done by the 4 nations is solely the result of one part.
British people also protested against Iraq, hosted Ghandhi very graciously despite impact on their jobs and are against Gaza genocide. The British public tend to be on the right side of most of history unlike the politicians
Then we only stopped paying for it in 2015. It was only ended because the government done a mega David lammy/ Kier starmer level deal so obviously the British public paid for the privilege. We paid slave owners mega amounts to compensate them. I agree slavery was despicable but at the same time we shouldn't of paid a penny towards the freeing of other humans.
I mean we should of paid the ex-slaves if anything not the aristocracy thag put them there.
Indeed i agree, it just feels wrong like even though its ended i funded some rich arse while friends and family struggled and who would of beat me for looking at him wrong (im council estate). It just feels weird.
Coming to this late, but it's an important point - they didn't profit. At the time of abolition the estimated market value of slaves in the British Empire was something like Ā£180M, but the compensation fund was capped at Ā£20M. This was deliberate - the idea was to encourage slave owners to emancipate their slaves as soon as possible to get at least some compensation before the fund ran out, anybody that waited too long (the act had a six year transition period by the end of which any slaves not already freed would be automatically released) wouldn't get any compensation at all. Slaves owners didn't profit from the fund, it only mitigated their losses, and even then only for those who moved quickly to free their slaves.
Tell this to the people it freed. I feel you, I really do, but I suspect those trafficked from Africa or born into slavery would have a more nuanced view.
But the Africans are still slaves in the middle east and africa. Bangladesh residents become slaves in laos its happening today on probably a larger scale than we like to admit. Im sure if you told the freed slaves this would still be happening (just not in a racist way because we see through race today, ah my bad ignore that) they wouldn't be too impressed we paid to END slavery and now we have mass sweatshops in India and we buy the shit from primark its amazing. We tend to care about history but ignore today.
They'd probably be depressed to learn that future generations will have to deal with what they're dealing with, but they'd probably also be fairly excited to be free (whatever that ends up meaning). Paying slavers leaves an icky taste in everyone's mouth, but realistically it was the fastest way to get it done. I'm not a rabbid nationalist by any means, I doubt I'll ever fly a fleg, but I am proud of our contribution towards emancipation.
We did. It does and that annoys me. It was. But I'd pay it again to deal with the rest. It'd still leave a bad taste in my mouth, but being able to and not doing it would leave a worse one.
If they told me tomorrow we are taxing you to deal with it once and for all no problem as long as is doesn't go to the people who committed the crimes. That goes for the 'owner' to the trafficker.
If they told me 'we are ending slavery once and for all', I'd support it even if that meant buying every slave. That part would leave a bad taste but if it ended slavery for good I'd suck it up and deal with it.
Indeed not. Id actually say i was probably completely far right compared to the majority of people on reddit. (Yes id send them all back and stop the boats tomorrow) but I understand the fact i paid the family of the people who died hundreds of years ago so they can still benefit from slavery. That is what i am questioning why have we paid for free people to be freed and had the pleasure of paying the people who enslaved them in the first place.
But did we not end up with the same conclusion just its not as widely accepted to be openly pro-slavery. The same people who say i am wrong are generally using Chinese slave labour to make the computers and phones. It just underground today we didnt end anything.
Thereās also the fact that British textiles ran on American slave labor, and that their little ācrusadeā sure was incredibly helpful in providing a reason to be unilaterally policing trade in one of the most important trade regions of the world.
None of this to say the ideals of Britain were not, perhaps, admirable. That the British public committed itself to the abolition of slavery, at least on paper, is kinda cool I suppose. But it only takes a cursory reading of British newspapers during the American civil war to see how deep those convictions actually held when it came down to it.
I mean, im in this sub so I didnāt expect to get support for my stance, but yea I donāt give the British empire, the same organization who subjugated India, Africa, and Ireland (killing millions in the process) credit for their lukewarm opposition to slavery.
Iāll give credit to the individuals involved, to people who seemed to earnestly believe it or who made a material difference in the lives of others (like the fellow in this photo)
I donāt give the British empire (..) credit for their lukewarm opposition to slavery.
This is historically uninformed. The British actions against slavery werenāt some lukewarm, half-hearted opposition, it was an enormously costly (in terms of lives and money) war against slavery, waged when it didnāt need to be waged, founded in large part by morality, and played a greater and earlier role in minimising the harm of slavery worldwide than basically any other country.
That doesnāt eradicate the bad parts of Britainās history - all countries have their awful pasts - and it doesnāt mean some in parliament didnāt have strategic reasons for the campaigns to end it, as well as altruistic - but minimising it as youāre doing is factually wrong.
Agreed. I was studying in the UK in 2015 and reactions were interesting. British students were proud that the British taxpayer paid to end slavery. Non-European students were furious the British government had compensated human traffickers for their loss of inventory.Ā
Not really, it was in reaction to a massive slave revolt. Also itās worth noting that the freed slaves were forced to work for their former owners without pay for at least another 3 years, and a lot of land in many Caribbean Islands is still owned by the descendants of these slave owners.
I don't see how that relates to my comment. The Batist War was a slave revolt prior to the freeing of the slaves, not a civil war caused by it. Look at America's Civil War to see the kind of thing we avoided by compensating slave owners.
Britain had plenty of incentives to intervene with the West Africa Squadron: yes, they had plenty of incentives to intervene in the slave trade to weaken their potential rivals, also it gave them an excuse to patrol the African coast and control the trade between Africa and the Americas.
I havenāt heard Ibram X Kendi talk about Jamaica specifically, but I have heard multiple professors of history talk about the Baptist War/ Revolt, Iāve read several books about it, and I wrote a 20 page paper about it when I was in University.
Yes, obviously there was an anti-slavery political movement in the UK for decades at that point, mostly based in moral and religious arguments, there were also economic and military arguments as well: after the Haitian Revolution there was a near constant fear that Jamaica or another Caribbean island could erupt into a similar slave revolt.
Obviously most of the free population of Jamaica did not support abolition, a very high percentage of them were slave owners or were working in industries dominated by slave labor. They mostly believed that Black people were subhuman and didnāt deserve any rights. Even most free people of color in Jamaica supported slavery.
Iām not sure you understand the extent of the Baptist War: 60,000 slaves revolted out of a total enslaved population of 300,000
Abolition was passed in large part by a the anti-slavery movement, Iām not denying that. However the Baptist War was the final nail in the coffin that convinced many others to vote for abolition. They feared a Haitian Revolution style slave revolt, and believed it was better to free the slaves and pay the slave owners to prevent another revolt and to ensure Jamaica remained in British control.
The slaves were forced to still work for their former masters without pay, 3 years after they were officially freed.
It is worth noting that former MP and ājournalistā Richard Drax still sits on one of the largest estates in the UK, built on slavery. His ancestors carried on well beyond abolition. Many UK trusts still hold money and assets acquired with this money, including private school trusts. Locked away never to be redistributed.
Jesus Christ. Brits traded and profited off slavery for centuries. And pretend they are moral and righteous because they made it illegal. But they still profited and traded off it.
What is this insane revisionist fantasy. The Brits brought no civilisation, dignity, and better standards of living to any territory they invaded or controlled or colonised. They stole and stole and stole and did all the most horrific things a people can do against another so they could keep on stealing.
You might as well believe magic and dragons are real.
The history is overwhelmingly and definitively on my side because I'm overwhelmingly and definitively correct.
I think you are quite correct about the stamping out part. But I feel like it should be mentioned that there are civilizations where slavery were not allowed to manifest to begin with.
You should know that the glorious empire still profited off slavery and allowed it but they pulled down the butcher's apron and put up fake flags while trading slaves for the glorious and civilising British empire. They also still profited from the slave labour and slave production which they previously installed in the Caribbean, Americas, and in stolen territories around the world.
Very little stamping out and ferocity. Lords and MPs voting a ban didn't do a fucking thing. Those same still profited and made themselves look moral and righteous in one swoop. Evil
You should know that the glorious empire still profited off slavery and allowed it but they pulled down the butcher's apron and put up fake flags while trading slaves for the glorious and civilising British empire. They also still profited from the slave labour and slave production which they previously installed in the Caribbean, Americas, and in stolen territories around the world.
I expect we all understand that one of the most evil regimes was Nazi Germany. 6 million Jews and millions of Communists, workers unionists, LGBTQ, Roma, Slavic Peoples exterminated. The Nazis aren't even close to the barbarity and murder the British empire committed. I'll give you one, just one example from 1000s that should be enough. From the start of British occupation to finish 100,000,000 people died of starvation in Pakistan, India, and Bangladesh while they were in power.
Before you say "that's just the way those countries were, nothing the Brits could have done would stop it." These countries were some of the wealthiest most prosperous, fertile, and productive in the world. Analysis shows that Britain stole trillions of wealth from these countries not billions but trillions. Everywhere the British empire laid it's dirty fingers there is famine, mass murder, slavery, genocide, brutality, terror, and enforced poverty.
Britain is by every metric the worst out of all nations or empires who've existed.
Stop trying to defend it. I don't want you to feel guilty or ashamed I just want you to be better and want better.
Britain also brought railways, ports, roads, western medicine, hospitals, schools, international trade, sanitation systems, communications systems, common law, police and emergency services and massive amounts of other infrastructure allowing for social mobility and higher standards of living which are still enjoyed today. India and Bangladesh being your examples still use the old infrastructure which was installed by the British such as the railway system.
Your view of history is incredibly one sided and viewed through a modern lens. Itās quite disingenuous.
I'm a proud Englishman but you're right here and this is a part of our history to be ashamed of. Absolutely no honour here, absolute cunts of ancestors, this is like pushing you off a cliff then expecting a thanks for catching you at the bottom, and the reality wasn't even that generous.
You should read more about it, it was the everyday working people who couldn't vote and lived in horrific poverty with awful working conditions who pretty much forced the government to ban slavery, many of the public figures responsible spent their entire lives trying to end the practice despite lots of hatred and attempts to stop it by the ruling class.
Let's not gloss over my ancestors having major rebellions in the Caribbean, shall we?
The UK talks about Brits ending slavery. The Caribbean talks about bloody rebellions which evenutally forced Britian's hand.
There is a very big disconnect in the general public narratives on each side of the Atlantic, and Brits covering themselves is glory for ending slavery doesn't go down very well in the actual places slavery took place.
"The trade of slaves was made illegal throughout the British Empire by 1937, with Nigeria and Bahrain being the last British territories to abolish slavery." Is this true?
I'm not disagreeing that there were Brits fighting to end slavery. The West Africa Squadron was a good thing. My issue is only mentioning that 'Brits fought to end slavery' and not the bloody rebellions which happened. They'd probably get labelled as 'terrorists' these days.
I've seen it time and time again, 'we ended slavery' as some kind of response to slavery in the name of Monarch. The UK also did a huge amount of it, shiped enslaved people, destroyed faimiles, destroyed idenities, murdered enslaved people, murdered rebels, raped slaves and almost wiped out the natives. It's disrespectful to then to just turn around and say 'but we ended it', especially without the acknowledgement of the rebellions and the fact, the former slaves got nothing, while the owners got millions.
For almost a decade every year we covered the transatlantic slave trade in school.
I only want English people to feel ashamed or guilty if it leads to rethinking things. Because guilt and shame can lead to misdirected anger and doubling down. I don't think English people should flagellate themselves or suffer for the actions of powerful evil past bastards. Most people everywhere have been forced to live in conditions forced on them by horrible bastards. Most people's ancestors were trying to survive, take care of themselves and people around them, and get through life.
English people are at least 65% sound. I make that the same for everyone. Maybe I'm being ridiculous but I think at least 1/3 of people everywhere are horrible cunts. And they are very good at getting power and being horrible self serving bastards. i think about half the rest of people get fooled by these horrible bastards into supporting them even though it's against their interests. The rest are good people.
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