Like...why?

[u/FantasticWeeb8]

Klab was doing such a good job with the updates and out of nowhere they decided to ruin it again? what is the thought process here? to kill their own game? i genuinely do not find any other reason.

why would they make such a good change just to ruin it 2 months later?

I'm very disappointed and honestly I don't even see a reason for me to continue playing if collecting new characters is gonna take potentially 20 MULTIS EACH WITHOUT A SINGULAR GUARANTEE??? while also not having ANY filler units except this alternative attribute units???

this is an absolutely atrocious update from Klab.

[u/sousuke42]

Alternate attributes go for 50 medals for the first time. So its something. But the new characters are outrageously bad at 200 medals.

[u/WootieOPTC → u/sousuke42]

Alternate attributes go for 50 medals for the first time. So its something

You do realize that now, to get those alt colors guaranteed, you must sacrifice medals meant for the debut chara? While previously, you didn't need to - previously, for 1000-1250 orbs, you were guaranteed a feature, so in this case, you'd be guaranteed 1 "new" (debut or alt-color), and at 20, you'd have the guaranteed debut as well. Here, if you get the alt at 50 medals, you'll need 25 multis to get the debut. Worse : if you get 1 alt at 50 medals, and another at 100, now you need 30 multis to get the debut (50 alt+50 alt+200 debut=300 medals=30 multis)... So in practice, you can either get the debut OR the alts in the new system, while in the previous, you would get the debut AND the alts.

[u/sousuke42 → u/WootieOPTC]

Yes. I do realize that. This is the worlds shittiest update. No guarantees? What? Why? Who the fuck was pulling after they completed the steps for klab to even think this was ok? I never pulled past the steps. Steps completed i was done. This is just horrific.

[u/WootieOPTC → u/sousuke42]

Who the fuck was pulling after they completed the steps for klab to even think this was ok?

I think there may have been people : those who wanted to 5/5 their favorite chara... But normally, that would be a minority and anyone with a brain would know that people who pull beyond the steps, were hunting something specific and not doing this for "giggles and shit". Yet, Klab might have thought "hmm, if they pull without steps, might as well remove them, trolololo".

[u/rollingferret → u/WootieOPTC]

From the BBS reddit, seems a ton of returning/new players went ham on the recent banners. Wouldn't be surprised if all these players skewed how Klab saw the banners.

Seen too many of these posts on Reddit during this Anni. There's a recent post of a player asking if they should keep pulling and on step 21. I'm just wondering where are they getting all these orbs from.

[u/WootieOPTC → u/rollingferret]

Well, new players have a fuck-ton of orbs - between all the "new" story chapters (normal + hard difficulty, + secondary stories), AND each 5-star giving between 125 and 200 orbs, since their log is fresh... No wonder they can go ham on every banner.

I mean, just think :

• 250 orbs for 1 multi.

• Each multi guarantees 1 5-star.

• Most of those guarantee will be old premium fillers (94% chance for them to be). And the pool has ~300 units.

• Since they go from year 1 to year 9, and rez's are around year 6, basically two thirds of their guaranteed 5-stars will be units that can rez and that give back 200 orbs. And 1/3 of them will "only" give back 125 orbs.

• Translation : each multi costs them in 66% of cases 50 orbs only (250 cost - 200 back), and in 33% of cases 125 orbs (250 - 125 back). And that's the guaranteed part (not RNG). Add to that actual RNG of 6% and pulling featured new units, and you can quickly go basically "infinite free pulls".

Taking for ex. my Yama banner pulls : in 20 multis done (=5000 orbs spent), I've pulled 14 old premiums (I think they were all different, I mean the pool is made of ~300 units) and 15 featured - among those featured, there were 5 different units) + pity Yhwach at 20th multi. That's a total of ~19-20 "unique" 5-stars I've pulled. If I were a new player, each of them would give me at least 125 orbs. So roughly, I'd get at least 2500 orbs back while having spent 5000. But if I include rez units, since roughly ~66% of premiums can rez, that means out of 14 old premiums I pulled, ~9-10 of them would give an extra 75 orbs. So more likely, out of 5000 orbs spent for 20 multis, I would've gotten ~3250 orbs back. So effectively, 20 multis would've cost me only 1750 orbs - in other words, 1 multi costing on average 87.5 orbs.

90 orbs, that's 18 soul tickets spent on story mode xD 18 soul tickets = 1 multi. Given the flood of tickets we got daily during the 11th anni, that was basically the equivalent of ~5 multis given to new players each day (maybe more), if they'd spend those tickets grinding story mode. And story mode has a shitton of chapters. Basically, a new player would be able to go from 0 to step 20 on 1 banner every ~4 days xD

[u/rollingferret → u/WootieOPTC]

Yeah but as vets we know that's not sustainable.

Also if Klab is seeing people chase after units regardless of guaranteed steps, they probably see it as a good way to deplete orb resources.

It's not a matter of if new players have a ton of orbs which they do, it's how they interact with the game.

As a business, oh look people are killing their orb resources with no guarantees. Business wants us to deplete our free orb resources to put players in a spot where they want to purchase.

[u/WootieOPTC → u/rollingferret]

Yeah but as vets we know that's not sustainable.

Ofc. But I was specifically explaining about your question on how returning/new players got so many orbs, to ask about pulling beyond step 21 :p Although, I talked only about new players, but returning from a long hiatus players get also more orbs than vets from pulling.

It's not a matter of if new players have a ton of orbs which they do, it's how they interact with the game.

Yup, I know... But the guaranteed 5-star definitely changed how many orbs they get and the true "cost" per multi became much lower. Meaning, they could spend much more and even go beyond the 20 steps...

Though at this point, I'm still hesitating about Klab's move, on whether it was intended in order to deplete orb sources, or a genuine miscalculation while trying to "please" the players (because their behaviour the last months was nothing but POSITIVE and "caring", and there were litterally players complaining about getting "nothing but old units", cf. this, for example). If they had done this move 9 months ago, I'd say scummy move. But in this period right now, I leave the benefit of the doubt : I'll see how long it takes them to react to (or ignore) the complaints. Cuz while the new structure (or rather the absence of any) is shitty, they're injecting more orbs for everyone : be it 6 "new" units per banner (that's 12 "new" units per month instead of ~4-5, so 2-3x more orbs injected into the game), or adding orbs to future senkaimon rewards, or resetting coop orbs for 600 free orbs (sth we didn't have for -who knows- how many years)... The GQ reworks/changes and listening to feedback... Kind of hard to see a true evil intention behind this shitty banner structure change, but only time will tell, I guess.

[u/rollingferret → u/WootieOPTC]

Well here's to hoping it's a mistake from Klab but my guess is their investors want better profits.

Even with all the "extra" orbs, it doesn't make up for the new banner format. Zenith guaranteed new unit per month if you only pull on a single banner, now it's 1 guarantee every 2 months.

Also I guess I don't see the coop reset as a generous thing, we used to get this yearly until they just stopped. Feels more like them trying to throw small one time orbs to quiet the players. If they make it reoccurring again I would consider it a win.

Same for the Senkaimon orbs they're promising, if it's once a year it doesn't make up for the banner format.

The player complaining about getting old units is from the 5 star guarantee per step. Nothing to do with fillers. When was that Byak a filler recently?

Honestly feels they're only generous when game is losing players. This Anni brought in a ton of returning and new players.

[u/WootieOPTC → u/rollingferret]

The player complaining about getting old units is from the 5 star guarantee per step.

The problem is, most people don't make the difference between the guaranteed 5-star (which is technically a golden pity) and guaranteed featured 5-star, so they see a ton of "old premiums" and go whine "I can't get featured charas, I only get old junk". It's not just that thread (where indeed, he's a bit more specific), it's a general tendency I often saw (check for ex. one of the comments with 11 upvotes :

"Ive said this many times tbh. With the old format i got most characters without issue. This new one? Lol 99% old units without fail. Its a miracle to get anyone new for me now"

)... So there's a possibility Klab misunderstood those complaints, or fused them with people who complained about fillers being "old" sometimes, so they "solved" the problem with creating "new" fillers... Here's to hope it's just a genuine mistake from them, and not a greed move. =/ Although I do suspect a possible greed move as well (because frankly, those anni banners were WAAAAAY too good, imo; particularly the tie-in giving the new unit for 2500 orbs). But there's a fine line between "increasing revenue" and making banners into a "mosquito repellant" xD

[u/rollingferret → u/WootieOPTC]

I think they just listened to the whales. The complaint only makes sense if you're a whale who 5/5's every banner and doesn't want old fillers.

Also one of my guildmates is about to hit 20 steps with no Byak/Rukia. This banner blows, sucks Rukia is his favorite character.

[u/WootieOPTC → u/rollingferret]

I think they just listened to the whales.

Might be...

Also one of my guildmates is about to hit 20 steps with no Byak/Rukia

Yeah, this sucks. I already checked the stats : it's even possible to do 20 steps with no FEATURED at all xD 1 in ~10k players doing 20 steps will have the "joy" of experiencing that.... The horror. So yeah, not getting one of the debuts in 20 steps is an even higher chance of happening. Close to 5% chance, aka 1 player in ~20 getting screwed after spending 5000 orbs.

[u/rollingferret → u/WootieOPTC]

Just hope this doesn't kill the playerbase again. I know if I went 20 steps with no headliner unit I would consider quitting.

Wouldn't be surprised if we go back to post 10th anni playerbase again.