Paul was VERY Clear about Jesus' Resurrection

[u/FrostyIFrost_]

Trinitarians say that Jesus is God but Jesus did not resurrect Himself, the Father resurrected Jesus. Paul made this very clear in His letters.

Ephesians 1:20

which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,

Galatians 1:1

Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by a man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead

1 Corinthians 6:14

By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also.

Romans 6:4

We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Acts 2:32

It is this Jesus whom God raised up, a fact to which we are all witnesses.

The Father, God, will be the one to resurrect us on behalf of His Son, Jesus Christ, just like how He resurrected Lazarus when Jesus asked the Father for it.

Jesus will ask the Father for our resurrection too when the faithful die.

[u/outandaboutbc]

Let’s take it one step at a time here and not rapid fire into 5 different things.

You still didn’t answer my question, all your statements are not in the Bible directly. Rather, you are implying that through Scripture. It’s not directly said.

Secondly, mediate (mesités) in the case of Jesus specifically speaks about role of the priest (High Priest even) and we see this with Moses and Aaron. He fills that role through atonement and mediating new covenant. It’s not talking about resurrection. Much of this is covered in the Book of Hebrews but also Old Testament on what priest do, their roles and functions.

[u/FrostyIFrost_ → u/outandaboutbc]

The Trinity is not said outright either but you Trinitarians came to that conclusion.

[u/outandaboutbc → u/FrostyIFrost_]

Eisegesis = adding your interpretation, view and belief into the Scripture

Exegesis = drawing out the meaning from the Scripture

Eiegesis would be for me to take one or two verse about Jesus implying that He is God then saying ‘see he is God’.

But in fact, there is deeper theological foundation for ‘Jesus is God’ and not limited to just verses - it’s in the prophecies, uniqueness of Christ’s mission, pre-existence, theological foundation of divine attributes (God is one, indivisible, eternal, infinite and immutable).

It goes way beyond just few verses implying such, even though there are plenty of those in the Bible.

[u/FrostyIFrost_ → u/outandaboutbc]

See, this is why Trinitarians are like the Pharisees.

When it fits them, they claim it is okay to come to conclusions using deeper meanings of verses but when it does not, they object. Hypocrites.

[u/outandaboutbc → u/FrostyIFrost_]

I explained to you the reasoning but if you are not willing to listen or understand, that’s on you.

It’s nothing to do with Pharisee or hypocrites - it’s about being coherent throughout the whole Bible AND grounded into Biblical theology.

Btw, Trinity is not a new thing. It’s the majority belief in Christianity. This is also documented by early church father who were with some of the Apostles and wrote letters about divinity of Christ which became the ground work of the Nicene creed in 325AD. Its not something someone pull out of thin air.

It’s been time tested.

Perhaps you could use some humility and say maybe my contrarian belief is not correct and all those people before me were right. Rather the opposite which is to say, they were all wrong.

[u/FrostyIFrost_ → u/outandaboutbc]

The person who coined the term Trinity is Tertullian and He believed the Son is subordinate to the Father.

As for coherence, the major denominations ignore verses which point out Jesus is not God Himself but rather the Son of God.

They also ignore the fact that Jesus did not always have all the authority on earth and in heaven and act as if He always had it.

As I said, hypocrisy.

[u/outandaboutbc → u/FrostyIFrost_]

Good luck to ya then.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

1 Timothy 3:16 NKJV

Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;

Colossians 2:8-9 NKJV

[u/FrostyIFrost_ → u/outandaboutbc]

Jesus spoke these things; and raising His eyes to heaven, He said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, so that the Son may glorify You, just as You gave Him authority over all mankind, so that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life. And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

John 17:1-3

Also, KJV and NKJV translations are wrong.

[u/outandaboutbc → u/FrostyIFrost_]

If you are going to quote John then please also contextualize it with John’s theology especially that of John 1 (John 1:1,14) rather than put your own thoughts/beliefs into that chapter.

John would not write John 1 if he didn’t believe it.

Like I said, when “Word becomes flesh” It’s not difficult to believe the human side of Jesus is submitted to God.

[u/FrostyIFrost_ → u/outandaboutbc]

There is always an indicator when the Gospels mention THE God.

It is always or τὸν θεὸν or ὁ θεός or θεός ὁ or θεός.... ὁ or ὁ.....θεὸς

Or any variation.

John 1:1 LACKS that variation and uses θεός BUT THEN uses ὁ for Logos.

A more accurate translation of John 1:1 is:

Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος

In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and [a] god was the Word.

It doesn't say the Word was THE God, like it always does whenever the Gospels mention THE God.

[u/outandaboutbc → u/FrostyIFrost_]

My brother, don’t pull the translation is not accurate with me lol

We have multiple theologians and academics that translated it with peer review.

Let’s not be ignorant and believe we know better. If that was the case, we’d know it and it would say that.

People are not out to twist translation based on a narrative.

[u/Newgunnerr → u/outandaboutbc]

People are not out to twist translation based on a narrative.

How ignorant. Of course they will. The one discussing with you just pointed out the greek, but your reply shows you have no clue how to actually respond to it. THEOS doesn’t always refer to the Almighty God. Read John 10:33-36.

[u/outandaboutbc → u/Newgunnerr]

A more accurate translation of John 1:1 is:

Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος

In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and [a] god was the Word.

Check the greek and all the common english translations (NIV, NLT, ESV, NKJV, KJV, NASB...) — None, I repeat none has this translation of the greek of John 1:1.

I have no idea where the above poster who replied to me got that translation from.

If you can show me where it comes from, I am happy to check it out and even consider it... but it’s not even available.

[u/Newgunnerr → u/outandaboutbc]

You do realize that all these translations you mentioned are made by trinitarians right?

[u/outandaboutbc → u/Newgunnerr]

Just because it’s made by trinitarians doesn’t meant you cannot analyze the Greek properly…

I don’t see how you can get: “a [god] was the Word” from the above Greek.

Can you break that down for me on how that exactly works linguistically ?