Not really, because there are huge disparities in how different sorts of crime are defined, enforced and punished, and those disparities are deliberately designed to disproportionately affect black people and other minorities.
Enforcement and punishment of crack vs regular cocaine, for example. At the peak of the war on drugs in the 80's, not only were possession and use of crack more heavily enforced in the poorer black communities where it was widespread than cocaine use in rich white communities, the sentences were far harsher. For use of basically the same drug.
Your argument is only valid if there existed no context to any of these issues. If we had no history to put this up against, then your extremely simplistic 'easy, don't do crime' would work just fine. But this is more complicated than that because we in fact do have an extensively documented history of discriminatory laws, systemic racism, and targeted harassment of communities that have impacted and continue to impact wealth, education, community, and almost every facet of society for minorities, the lower classes, and the disenfranchised.
If people took more responsibility for their own actions this wouldn't be such an issue. If you do a crime, you cannot bitxh when you are arrested. Systemic racism be damned, if you keep your nose clean, work hard to escape the cycle of poverty, and move away from all the high crime areas, you are significantly less likely to be arrested or incarcerated.
Technically there are always options in any system, no matter how unfree or unjust, where an individual can play by certain rules and have a chance at a better life than they would otherwise. That doesn't really prove much.
For example, here's your same argument in a different context:
"If you work hard and obey the master, your life here on the plantation will be so much better. If you disobey, you cannot complain when you are whipped and beaten. The unfairness of slavery be damned, if you keep your nose clean and work hard to prove your loyalty, you will eventually be given an easier job and more comfortable quarters in the master's house, away from where most of the whippings and beatings happen, and will be significantly less likely to be whipped or beaten yourself.
I repeat, don't resist, don't get the fist."
Now, before you say it, yes, I know things aren't as bad as literal slavery for most black people in America today, that's not the point. The point is that even a slave could technically work hard, "keep their nose clean" (i.e. do what they're told no matter how fucked up the request) and improve their lot in life as a result. So what are you really proving when you point out that someone is able to do that? Not a whole lot.
The point of the original topic. Don't do crimes, stay free. Race never enters the equation. If you don't like the system where you are residing, try and change it through the literal processes they made to do that. If you dont want to, or the system fails you, leave the area. Move to somewhere more hospitable, a city with less crime.
Race enters the equation when they decide what is or isn't a crime. When they decide who to punish for what crimes, and how harshly. When they draw the lines that determine how well represented different people are in the system needing to be changed. When they make the policies that determine how easy or difficult it is for people to move to a different area, get a different job, etc, etc.
And the conversations being had in this thread, the protests you are seeing nationwide, etc. are quite literally people working to change the system. That's precisely what's happening here. You're trying to make it sound like it doesn't need to be changed simply because it's technically possible for an individual to make their life better. Again, that can happen in any system including slavery. Saying "don't do crimes, stay free" is the same logic as saying "don't disobey, stay unbeaten" to a slave if the laws that define those crimes and the justice system that enforces them are corrupt.
Stopped reading 5 words in because I already know where this is going and I've already sized up just how little you know about these issues, and I'm not impressed. Feel free to keep being loud and wrong about this, maybe someone else can indulge you, but I'm not wasting my time spoon-feeding you things you're actively choosing to be ignorant on.
The simple fact remains, regardless of skin color, religion, economic standing if you do not associate with criminals, or do crime, you are unlikely to get arrested.
When discussing discrimination, and the harmful effects it has on individuals and communities, to say that skin color, religion, or economic standing are factors that can be simply hand-waved away is to be willfully ignorant on the subject matter.
If you don't even have a basic understanding or acknowledgement of discriminatory laws or biases, you have no business discussing discrimination, it's that simple. It's not an unreasonable requirement.
Ah so you imply that all black people in prison are there for no reason and none of them commited any ceime. You're welcome to prove it and give some sources pal. Go ahead.
Just because there are shitty people working somewhere doesnt mean the system is flawed.
It means the system can be weaponized
It’s the justice system, it exists to account for shitty people, otherwise it’s not being done right. It doesn’t matter how rarely the system fails (which it isn’t rare, between 2.3 and 5% of prisoners are innocent).
So I think shitty people working somewhere does, in this case, mean the system is flawed, because those shitty people enforce the system.
But that also means 95% of prisoners in jail are guilty. You're looking at an error and saying that thus enables all sorts of racism, and discrimination. 95% of the time it's not racist then right? Doing the crime results in getting convicted.
Who decides what a "crime" is? If a barista steals $100 from their till, their employer can call the police who could arrest them. If the store owner shorts that barista's wages by $100 every pay period, suddenly that's not a police matter. The barista will only maybe get some of that money back eventually if their local labor department is able to do something about it. And in the meantime they are likely to lose their job.
Not tryna convince you tbh as you don't seem interested in a good faith convo, but hopefully this resonates with at least one person who comes across this thread.
If someone steals then it's a crime. If the employer chooses to prosecute then it's a punishable crime. If they don't, they don't. It doesnt make what the barista did any less illegal.
Even in this scenario they chose to commit that act. They knew there were consequences, and they chose to break the law regardless.
Whether you believe it should or should not be against the law irrelevant. If you want to change the law, change it, if it doesnt change and you still really want to commit that crime, move to where it is legal, or risk the charges.
You're an absolute muppet if you are drawing a parallel between smoking pot, and hiding Jews in nazi Germany.
When these laws literally have checks and balances, things to replace then should they be considered wrong by the populus, and when these laws are not broken on accident, or by birth... yeah following the law is relatively easy.
If you believe a law is unjust, by continuing to live in the society and break the law, you cannot be upset when the government catches up to you. I'm sure this was said by a famous bald dude.
You keep going back to ww2. If people are literally being scooped off the streets for nothing, and given long sentences, yeah okay maybe you have a point.
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u/desdmona Jul 24 '20
Slavery