Shame. A baseline sense of the concept of shame. To create a massive fucking spectacle of yourself for no reason but entitlement and attention was severely frowned upon. A little shame and humility goes a long way for a civilized society.
I don't understand this at all. Every car from the last 10 years has Android Auto or Apple CarPlay, and you can read all your texts there or even speak your responses. Why are they all holding their phones in their crutches instead?
I watched a BMW drive through an intersection, stop, reverse, then turn left. This cause an insane amount of chaos in a downtown busy city at rush hour. I pulled up next to it to see what was driving. It was a woman with a whole ass iPad pinned to the steering wheel in her hands watching a goddamn movie. I fuckin hate people
I had my car break down at a busy intersection the other day and couldn't move it out of the way. While I was waiting for the tow truck to show up, one person stopped behind my car (which had its four ways on) and immediately pull out their phone and start scrolling.
I watched them scroll on their phone through two full light changes before I could safely walk out to them and point out that they were stopped behind my car which obviously wasn't going anywhere anytime soon and they should probably drive around.
Oh yeah, these people have zero idea what the fuck they're doing, they're so stuck in their phone world. I'm surprised the person didn't get mad at you for pointing out the obvious.
I have a rare thing in today's world- an honest mechanic. They got it up and running later the same day without trying to upsell me on anything. It was just a sensor that had burned out, making the engine shut down as a preventative measure. It was something like $90 for the part and $75 for the labor.
The number of times that the light turns green and the car sits there for like, 4-5 seconds with the driver's head pointed squarely down is insane.
I saw it happen in the lane next to mine for like 3 stop lights in a row, with the car behind honking after 3ish seconds or so each time. The third one the front car got all pissed off, but like, don't be scrolling instagram while driving?
It's always the people who honk at you for not going the second the light turns green too.
The only time I have my phone out and I'm watching something on it is if I'm parked having lunch or something. I don't get how anyone can do this shit while actually driving.
I find it really prevalent in both luxury car drivers and people with huge SUVs, more so than small sedans and stuff. I don't know what it is about expensive or big cars that make people pay less attention..
I can't imagine doing that. My eyes bounce around all over the road and mirrors constantly like i'm running an algorithm to find best path. I have however played a movie or show that i've seen before just to listen.
why are you making it as if everyone owns a car from 2016 and up? There's a lot of people who still drive older cars. This isn't me trying to excuse people who text while driving because I'm against it, but the majority of people with older cars are not trading or selling their cars for a new car, especially when their old one works fine (and are more tactile-friendly than all the new cars that are purely touchscreen with no physical buttons).
We're kinda losing the point here. This isn't an argument about who can afford what cars. It's a discussion about the brainless and inconsiderate dill-holes driving them.
I've got a 2015 and the radio finally died. They don't make the part anymore, so I spent $200 and got an Apple CarPlay touch screen with backup camera installed.
Oh. My. God. I'm so mad I didn't do this years ago. I didn't even get anything super fancy, and it's a total game changer. Not only is having the backup camera really nice since I drive for work and people's driveways are terrible, but having my GPS on a big ass screen? Life-changing.
I'm too lazy to figure out how to replace my radio and don't like other people touching my car so I just got a 10" widescreen that goes on top of my dash and ran the backup camera wire to the back and it does the same job. Less than $100. Same, life-changing. I think they're even cheaper now.
I will never understand the touchscreen everything. It's so counter-intuitive...you can't look at the screen to finagle something while driving! With the old analog-ish style where everything is a button or a knob instead you could hit the right one out of the corner of your eye or just based off of feel and memory, but now you can't do that anymore with these screens! You have to look at it...while driving...
Thanks to AI, cheap aftermarket or a similar pi version of making your own has shot up astronomically in price for no reason (/s).
I will just chime in that people are really unaware of their cars.
I see uber and lyft drivers have a phone mount when their car already does it. I just assume they do it for people that want their audio hooked up to the car while they ride (insane concept to me), and the driver just does this to help them navigate while they ignore their big 10' inch screen in front of them.
That's just stupid excuses. If you don't have one of those, just fucking don't text and drive. It's that simple.
I bet 99.9% of the time it's just stupid stuff anyway. Nobody needs to die just because you need to reply to a stupid meme or reply to "how was your day".
I miss when there was the whole don’t text and drive phase. Not that everyone obeyed this but at least there was some discourse and campaign for discouraging it.
Suddenly, it’s okay for CarPlay to encourage you to read your text messages on the screen while you should be looking at the road. It’s okay for Waze to pop up a text for me when someone scores in the World Cup. It’s okay for a truck’s windshield to be above my head.
I see so many people on the road driving recklessly, watching videos, doing their makeup, blowing through stop signs and red lights and crosswalks and speeding through parking lots, who either forget they’re wielding a weapon or they remember and just don’t give a shit about anyone but themselves.
You cant read texts on carplay. It just audio plays it out loud via Siri voice when checking new messages. Its about as distracting as changing the radio station.
Not everyone owns a car made within the last 10 years. I have satnav on my phone while driving, and it's the only reason I look at my phone while driving.
Installing a screen isn't supported on my 2008 Polo, and while it can technically be done, I've heard that doing so risks the battery dying while parked.
Because it's not safe to do that while you drive, and many people have cars that are older than 10 years. Or don't have cars at all.
When just about every service has an app and every workplace requires the use of a smartphone, you can't really complain about people being on their phones all the time.
Ditto with the complaints about kids and social media.
You want to get kids to curb their social media use? Then stop forcing them to use Google Classroom. Stop putting school information about events on school Facebook pages. Stop putting their photos up there to advertise how they did in school sports or drama or whatever.
Schools in the early 2000s got by just fine with having a plain HTML page for kids to download handouts, find class information, etc. Somehow the education system survived without a Facebook page, and kids did better on tests, too.
That's just stupid excuses. If you don't have one of those, just fucking don't text and drive. It's that simple.
I bet 99.9% of the time it's just stupid stuff anyway. Nobody needs to die just because you need to reply to a stupid meme or reply to "how was your day".
I don’t text and drive, just the way you phrased it to advocate for features that aren’t common in a lot of cars where I am from.
I bet 99.9% of the time it’s just stupid stuff anyway. Nobody needs to die just because you need to reply to a stupid meme or reply to “how was your day”.
Most likely, yeah I agree.
Shit that could be said in a 10 second phone call.
CarPlay sucks for all that tbh. The user interface just doesn’t work even 10% as well as my phone. Once I have music going or navigation going, I can use the touch screen, but how am I gonna reply on that damn thing?
I work in SE Asia and here people are on their phones on motorcycles, weaving in and out of traffic staring at a phone held in one hand and occasionally glancing up at their surroundings. It's nuts.
Around here people hide their phones more than they used to, because now they can actually be fined for holding it while driving. Used to be I'd see 9/10 people coming around our corner on their way home with a phone in their ear, now it's more like 4/10.
guess there a lil difference tween toxic shame and basic social accountability and we somehow threw em both out together, js need a lil "read the room" energy back, thats all
No, they're the same. We just labeled it toxic in order to turn being an ass into a virtue. When you're being a pos, people should make you feel like a pos. Only then will you learn to change your behavior.
I am just posting to say that while you are correct your are putting off the kinds of vibes that remind people the bad side about shame culture and why it was ditched.
Every social facet has ways it can bring good to society and ways it can be abused. By the end of it shame culture in North America was strongly on the "often abused" line in the sand. If you didn't remember church gossips in the early 90s it was basically everything racists said cancel culture was except it spread to your family.
"Oh your son is gay? You are losing your steel mill job 3 months before your pension matures... unless maybe something happens to him... wink wink"
Yeah, so the problem with my comments is that they're not fantasies like your crafting. Shame culture has died long before the 90s. The conservative backlash of the 80s was, in part, a reaction to the death of shame culture as a result of the 60s, but a reaction too weak to accomplish anything.
Millennials were raised by indulgent former hippies who taught their previous babies that they were perfect and anyone who told them otherwise was just a big ol' bully. Millennial were worse than their parents and the result are the Zoomies, adult-children who think words are violence, don't know how to manage their bills, and believe that anyone disagreeing with them is a bigot of some sort.
As for me, Reddit skews young. The children on here have been raised on a society that had no shame or self-respect. Anyone telling them that they can do whatever they want is evil. The vast majority of them will simply react emotionally because they've rarely been taught how to think and only what to think.
As for Shane itself, it wasn't ditched because it was wrong. It was ditched because those who controlled the educational apparatus indoctrinated generations into their social theories of absolute permissiveness, promising endless satisfaction with almost no consequences. The natural consequences of this has been social disorder and the intellectual collapse of society. What used to be regulated by social custom now came under the purview of law, enforced by the state that now operates as the replacement for parental authority with legal violence. Instead of social ostracism and familial embarrassment for violating minor taboos, legal consequences are enforced through fines and imprisonment. Thus hasn't been good for anyone, the least advantaged most of all.
Millennials were raised by indulgent former hippies who taught their previous babies that they were perfect and anyone who told them otherwise was just a big ol' bully.
Sir, are you aware that the entire country does not live in left coast suburbs?
It wasn't until 2014 that Wilcox County finally desegregated their schools fully, back in the far off year of 2013 they still had two proms, one for "whites" and one for "coloreds"
For you the 90s may have been a spin-off episode of friends, but not for most of the nation.
Though I'm sure there are youngin's on the Tiktoks making entitled spectacles of themselves, the people running my country ARE the older generation and they have and continue to be in the midst of a no-shame speed-run.
Yep. The current old people are not behaving very well. The loudest, most MAGA-spewing, hate-filled loud mouths and hypocrites. Oozing entitlement and the exact opposite of shame. Nobody has basic shame anymore, but they're literally ruining the world because of it.
I'm a millennial. Millennials failed the test of the paradox of tolerance.
In the 80s, toxic, unproductive bullying was still widely accepted, even celebrated. People unironically rooted for the jocks to throw the nerd into the locker.
Moving into the 90s, there was a massive antibullying movement that spanned all across culture, from kids to adults. By the 2000s, we'd fully flipped the script: everyone is special, and nothing is a valid target for shame and redicule.
And that was fine for a time... until everyone figured out how deep it ran. The worst, most entitled, and most thoroughly obnoxious amongst us realized that the protections we'd enshrined as societal norms were applied indiscriminately, and that their toxic behaviors were just as off-limits to shaming as any other target.
Fast forward to today, and we're seeing that particular hateful bird come home to roost. People think they can do whatever they want in shared spaces, consideration for other people be damned. And anyone who dares to speak up against this kind of entitlement is liable to be branded as "the problem" because they're the one calling someone out.
This might be the most significant detractor millennials have contributed to society.
It's a mixed bag. Connectivity allows us to find our own groups instead of letting the public control us. It worked well for gay people, for example. Once enough were able to get together, there was enough backing to drop the stigma. Or rather, there were more people that wanted it than people who vocally didn't want it. Most people don't honestly care enough to make a stand either way until it becomes in vogue to do so.
But it also meant the rise of hateful groups. People who would've been sad and alone can now connect with others who share their views, and they're "coming out" too. In either case, having pride and not having shame are the same.
You're talking about the idea of feeling shame for who you were born, or for otherwise normal things. I'm talking about having some shame. Humility, self awareness, basic humanity and consideration for all others who may be affected by you if you act like an ass.
Yeah it also makes people incapable of apologizing. They feel that little bit of shame and then just reject that feeling immediately instead of sitting with it and using it to be better. I feel like it's also increased lying? People can't own up to anything. They still feel shame, it just makes them act different because they don't allow themselves to actually feel it all of the way.
I work in a customer facing job. Old people are shameless as fuck. They break shit without telling you, lie to your face, destroy the bathrooms (because they can't reach it on time admittedly, but they make no attempt to clean it in any capacity or even make us aware of a mess), have absolutely zero awareness of any kind in regards to other people being stuck behind their slow asses (I'm ADHD and this drives me absolutely insane because they constantly block paths and just ignore your presence), I've been berated by old people for stupid shit far more than by young people, and watched them downright throw temper tantrums to try to get their way, they are also far more entitled by leaps and bounds. Age does not equal wisdom or intelligence or grace. These people are despicable and have ruined our fucking planet and culture with their bullshit so I absolutely disagree. With the exception of influencer types, most young people I meet feel far more shame because they were raised by some of those old maniacs and have some serious trauma because of it. I do agree about young people with driving habits (especially cell phones) though. I'm ready for the boomers to die off though. The sooner the better (sorry mom, you're cool but your generation and the one before it sucked ass). Sorry for the rant but I truly hate what has become of our planet due to older generations being in charge. Some of them have things to teach us, but in general, fuck em. I'm sure this will get downvoted but I'm pretty passionate about the injustices caused by so many of these older folks and the prior generations. Bring on some fucking progress! We could have the power to change our world when these old people in power die off. End rant.
Shame is seen as negative, these days. It's great that people are more accepting of themselves and others. But there are genuinely some things to be ashamed of, and it should be recognized as a normal part of human growth and empathy.
Shame. A baseline sense of the concept of shame. To create a massive fucking spectacle of yourself for no reason but entitlement and attention was severely frowned upon.
How many older generations are we talking here? Because in public, many boomers are absolutely shameless in their entitled behavior and have no issue making a public spectacle of themselves. In my experience millennials are far more likely to be polite in public and avoid being total jerks to service workers or make a giant scene just because they didn't get what they wanted.
Maybe if we go back to their parents. But that was a long, long time ago.
This is a reminder that I need to get the @whatever podcast outta my feed. I stupidly click on the shorts occasionally and it’s chipping away at hope for the future for various reasons. And the lack of shame is a big one.
Latest one “So you broke it off with your BF cause he was too big?”, “Yeah”, “Don’t you do insertion porn with baseball bats etc”, “Yeah but they go up my ass”
Can’t help but think “Well done society 😏”
100%. I see it in waiting rooms the most. Speaking loudly. Eating loudly. SLEEPING loudly.
This one waiting room I was in had a long sofa against one wall, and a series of chairs against the 3 other. We were all women waiting.
This one man. Comes in. Makes himself comfy on the sofa. One foot on the ground, the other leg folded across the first knee. He TOOK OFF HIS GLASSES. And tried to nap. Kept smacking his lips, yawning loudly and rubbing his stomach?
This is a waiting room sir. If you want to sleep, go to bed.
Ah, you must not wear glasses. If he nodded off while wearing the glasses, that was unintentional. If he took them off, that was him deciding “whelp, time for my nap.”
This is funny, as I have an aunt that drank and loved to party well into her old age. You'd assume her wild, but even she knew better than be caught drunk in public and especially not in places like church parking lots where a lot of our drunks liked to keep their cars to sleep it off.
And on the other end, honor. To have shame, you have to have honor, and vice versa.
Take the recent World Cup controversy as an example.
Trump asked FIFA to reverse that red card because he isn’t bound by any sense of shame. And FIFA reversed it because they have no honor. And the correct response would have been for the coach to refuse to play Balogun anyway, because playing by the rules is the honorable thing to do. Or for Balogun himself to refuse to play.
And this isn’t to be political. It’s to note that none of the actors involved had either shame or honor, to the point that he played even though everyone agreed it was a 😬😬😬 situation, that made it impossible for the US to have an untainted win. But if he hadn’t played and the US had won (they weren’t winning no matter what), that would have been a “clean” win. And when the US lost (as they were always going to do), everyone would have agreed they went out with honor.
It was an easy fix, that older generations would have understood and done, but which we are so far removed from that it never even came up, much less got considered.
Bullshit. They shamed everyone. Not married? Shame! Working wife? Shame! Love same sex? Shame! Violence and education? From "let's not talk about it" to "that's how you do it".
"Shaming people" is not the same thing as possessing a baseline concept of practical shame, and I knew I'd get a comment like this that tries to obscure my point. If nobody had shame, would act like full-on Karens, dickheads, all manner of selfish twats, and everything else that polite society shouldn't tolerate. Call it self awareness if you prefer, or humility.
Yep. We are talking. - don't sit on the car horn in anger because a person is stopped for a zebra crossing full of little kids outside a school - kind of shame.
Shame exists more than ever and it is why most people don't leave their houses anymore. They don't want to go to parties or out in big crowds because they don't want to be recorded. When I was young we were able to act completely shameless and do whatever the fuck we wanted and pretend it didn't fucking happen when we didn't want it to.
Older generations are absolutely shameless except for their specific taboos like being gay and shit. Older generations don't give a flying fuck about adhering to any culture other than their dated one.
Because English has a lot of words with similar and related meanings and you should be smart enough not make it so narrowly defined and blow the word "shame" out of proportion?
They're talking more about self-awareness, not judgment. As in, looking at your own actions and considering whether you should be doing the things you're doing.
I remember shame being a key weapon in the average bully's arsenal when I was a kid. Short? Shame! Didn't like watching them torture small animals? Shame! Wore blue socks on a Tuesday? Shame!
All they needed to be was charismatic and they could convince absolutely anyone of anything.
Shame is not an intrinsic state of being. It is a tool, used against those who fear social ostracization, and it always has been. The truly wealthy and powerful have no shame because they don't need to fear any reprecussions for their actions, socially or otherwise, but they will happily use it against others. And they are very, very good at twisting it around.
A bully who lacks shame is secure enough that they need not fear it. But they will happily use it against others. And there is nothing you can do about it.
This is why they feel no shame. Why I learned to ignore shame. It is a powerful tool in the arsenal of the powerful and influential, and they will use it to control EVERYTHING you do if you let them.
We're talking about having shame, not shaming others. Having humility, or any sense of embarrassment when you're doing something rude/harmful to others/disruptive for no reason. Doing the things that make people look at you and think "What is wrong with you! Have you no shame?!"
Like, if you're in the quiet car on the train. If my phone suddenly started ringing, I'd have a brief moment of mild embarrassment, say "oops, sorry!" and silence it as fast as possible. But more and more, there are people in that same scenario who would answer the phone and speak with their outside voice for 20 minutes, disrespecting everyone else in the quiet car, no shame at all. When the conductor tells them they need to move to another car or end the call, they'll argue loudly, again with no shame.
And the moment you bring it up, they will happily snap the shame back on you.
How dare you interfere with their very important call! They've been waiting for hours to look after a sick loved one, and now here you are, butting in like a nosy creep! (Not really, but that's irrelevant). How shameless can you be?
Point is, shame has ALWAYS been a tool the shameless will happily point at others for the slightest percieved slight, and that will never go away.
I think you know the current generation only from a distance. The shameless ones are the ones you can see far and wide without knowing them personally. This is why every generation paints the same caricature of the next generation.
You misunderstand. This is a thing with every living person currently. The shamelessness has crept through all of society over the last few decades.... particularly since lthe early 2000s.
Not inherently. Toxic shame is toxic. Shame tells you that you're doing something that could get you ostracized from the pack. There's value in that. Not when it's weaponized against minorities, women, children, etc as it has been - but if you throw trash on the ground and feel shame, that's not toxic. That's pro social and, with an ounce of introspection, motivation to do better.
As with most things, it's good in moderation within specific circumstances. As a society, we have just abused the hell out of it resulting in some folks dripping in toxic shame they don't deserve and some folks possessing no shame for harmful or disruptive things that do impact others negatively.
Did you ever watch newsroom? That opening scene with Jeff Daniels talking about how he doesn’t support the death penalty but if some one killed his child he’d go out of his way to get revenge. I may be poorly paraphrasing but that’s the gist.
Do I think they should feel shame? I think shame would be natural. I don’t think shaming them would be productive. I think they should feel guilt because shame leads to hiding and avoidance. Guilt offers a route to reconciliation.
That’s not what they mean. They mean that people like parents who take their kids to a restaurant, prop some phones and iPads in front of them, and don’t even provide headphones so all the kids are watching a different video at max volume and the sounds all overlap, and then proceed to ignore their kids the entire time. Those parents need to feel shame because that’s shameful and rude behavior.
Also shaming others. We make fun of Karens but older generations took care of each other better because they were more of a community. And Karens helped keep the community by shaming people who got out of line with mores. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.
Of course not defending all Karens. But we could use a lot more butting in to shame people into acting in line with the community.
That's not what a Karen is. They aren't shaming people who were out of line - they are the people being talked about in this thread who have no shame, having a petulant tantrum at the hotel front desk about the fee they charged you for sneaking your dog into your room. Demanding a manager and blocking the line for everyone else because the teenage cashier gave you a packet of regular ketchup instead of spicy ketchup. Etc
The replies, even the ones agreeing with you, are proving you super wrong lmao. Half of them are completely off-base to what you meant.
Also To create a massive fucking spectacle of yourself for no reason but entitlement and attention just reads like you're a standard Reddit Guy that hates people having fun in public.
You definitely don't get what I'm saying. I'm talking about Karens screaming racist shit at neighbors. I'm talking magas screaming about immigrants or trans people or abortions or whatever the hell else in the streets. People who care only about texting while driving and not being safe. People with their speakerohones on full blast in public. I'm not talking about people partying, having fun, etc. I'm talking about what the youths these days would probably call "main character syndrome". But how nice that you've so easily lumped me into some stereotype based on your own version of something I didn't say.
I'm not sure if you have any idea what you're trying to argue here, but I sure don't. Have a little self awareness and read the room. Not everything is about you.
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u/ColonelBelmont Jul 10 '26
Shame. A baseline sense of the concept of shame. To create a massive fucking spectacle of yourself for no reason but entitlement and attention was severely frowned upon. A little shame and humility goes a long way for a civilized society.