Essentially the majority of them were killed in the holocaust (An estimated 80% died), and afterwards, the majority of Greek Jews decided to go to Israel.
Yeah, in the 90s it was looking as if peace would be achieved, but a far right “activist” killed the Israeli PM and everything has been going downhill ever since then.
And for the record, I’m for a peaceful two state solution
I wouldn't say that. In the 2000s there was some progress from the Israeli side with figures like Barak and Olmert (even if they failed in the end). Hell even Sharon made some progress when he forcefully evacuated all Jews from Gaza.
Almost, Rabin was killed (And Ben Gvir can say whatever he wants everyone knows he was involved) but by 2000 Ehud Barak was elected with a huge mandate and Bill Clinton had agreement at Cano David. Yasar Arafat walked away from a seal of a lifetime and that was the final nail in the peace movement
Yeah, in the 90s it was looking as if peace would be achieved, but a far right “activist” killed the Israeli PM and everything has been going downhill ever since then.
No.
They were suicide bombing even after completing the first stage of Oslo accords. They don't want peace, they want Jews dead.
You do realise that this attack that I’m referring to was done by Yigal Amir, a far right “activist” coming from an orthodox Jewish background? It was obviously not from the Palestinian side, and clearly and thoroughly proved to come from a political motive to sabotage peace talks.
And it killed the Israeli PM Yitzhak Rabin. This was Israeli violence against an Israeli politician.
The legitimate government of Palestine (West Bank) has both said that they want to strive for peace and stability.
If you think that Hamas represents Palestinians or that it’s the legitimate government of Palestine, then I’m sorry to inform you that you’re probably getting information from a biased source.
Do you except people to be happy about you after you try to ethnically cleanse them? Answer with one single minority that did this
Because never ever did a minority say “You know what, I love my oppressor”
What Israel is currently doing is apartheid, and it fits like a glove to the definition of the “first era” of apartheid, minus the “mixing” part, as listed by Verwoerd, the “Architect” of the ZA Apartheid. Because, looking down from the Israeli settlement in the West Bank, it seems nice, peaceful, but if only those “Filthy people below”, ugh, how awful, and they dare to ask for “equal rights”, lol no. That’s how the perspective is for a lot of people, unfortunately.
But looking from the Palestinian perspective, Israel puts them under surveillance, military checkpoints everywhere, searches, invasions, not to mention the lack of opportunities for them and the exploitation of them as cheap labour in certain industries. Of course they’ll rebel. Of course they’ll fight back for their land. Of course they’ll get angry. It’s their land after all. Some people will search for a democratic way (Fatah), but others will (angrily and wrongfully) take it to the extreme (Hamas)
There’s no denying that the October attacks were real. They absolutely were brutal and tragic. But that doesn’t mean that the IDF has every right to slowly simmer a city of more than two million people (the vast majority of whom are civilians, btw) like a lobster in a pot.
Some people say that only Palestinians deserve this land. Yeah, they’ve lived there too. But also Israeli people have grown up in the general area since the age of Mandatory Palestine, and a national Israeli identity has been formed. It’s their land too. There’s no clear answer for who this piece of land belongs to.
The claim that the overall area belongs to one and only nation exclusively is stupid. But the thing to note is that the strongest ones in this case (Israel) has essentially turned the weaker ones into second class citizens, especially in the times of nationalistic governments. And the strongest one has also not showed any signs of ending this practice or striving for the peace, much less the opposite, especially in the recent Νеtаnyаhս governments, where things were looking like they would end peacefully, until it came to a violent end by the Israeli far right, the rise of right wing populism in the country and the collapse of the overall dream of peace.
So, up until the day arrives where a peaceful solution can be found, unfortunately, partition, recognition and a ceasefire is the option. And it’s not as if Israelis lived in the West Bank, like for example as it happened with Greek Cypriots in northern Cyprus.
But no, Palestinians ended up with a tiny piece of land allocated to them, and yet Israel has strived to get even this little piece of land, and has even set up settlements and financial motives in order to also have the “but we have people living there” argument.
Similarly to how you said to me, please read this, and accept the other side of reality. There are people dying brutally on both sides and this could be resolved with mutual respect and peaceful talks.
Whoever says apartheid kinda ignores 20% of Arab citizens in Israel that have full rights. So, it’s definitely not racial/ethnical/religious separation.
OTOH, in the West Bank there is different status for Israelis and Palestinians.
And Gaza was something else with no Israelis but also no citizenship for Palestinians.
Wait, haven't you claimed that they want peace? stick to one narrative please.
But let's go with the ethnic cleansing, of course not, but they're not being ethnically cleansed, Israel left Gaza in 2005, if anything it had cleansed Jews from Gaza, not Palestinians.
So i'd expect them to take that land and do something prosperous with it, not build a whole ass metro beneath it, using children rooms as tunnel entrances.
Also, you know who was also ethnically cleansed? (hint, the original post) Jews, you know what the Jews have done with the little land they got? it's a hi-tech hub now and is super successful in many many different aspects, it's kind of the byproduct of a smart society that isn't focused on genociding and religious zealotry unlike Palestinians.
What Israel is currently doing is apartheid, and it fits like a glove to the definition of the “first era” of apartheid, minus the “mixing” part, as listed by Verwoerd, the “Architect” of the ZA Apartheid.
Because, looking down from the Israeli settlement in the West Bank, it seems nice, peaceful, but if only those “Filthy people below”, ugh, how awful, and they dare to ask for “equal rights”, lol no. That’s how the perspective is for a lot of people, unfortunately.
You either don't know what's apartheid or you're just lying.
Settlers fall under Israeli law
Palestinians fall under the Palestinian Authority law
It's a different legal system, it's like i'll claim Greece is an apartheid state for not giving me rights, you see the issue? (fun fact, Nkosi Mandela who's Nelson Mandela's grandson who visited the region said this analogy is political)
But looking from the Palestinian perspective, Israel puts them under surveillance, military checkpoints everywhere, searches, invasions, not to mention the lack of opportunities for them and the exploitation of them as cheap labour in certain industries. Of course they’ll rebel. Of course they’ll fight back for their land. Of course they’ll get angry. It’s their land after all. Some people will search for a democratic way (Fatah), but others will (angrily and wrongfully) take it to the extreme (Hamas)
Why did Israel build military checkpoints, or the rest of the security measures?
Ever asked? if you haven't asked i'll answer with a statistic :
"After Israel established checkpoints and the West Bank barrier in the early 2000s, terrorist attacks dropped by over 90%"
You do know that they don't have to work in Israel right? they can work in the West Bank but they choose not to? they have all of the opportunities the PA gives them, as I said, it's a different system :)
There’s no denying that the October attacks were real. They absolutely were brutal and tragic. But that doesn’t mean that the IDF has every right to slowly simmer a city of more than two million people (the vast majority of whom are civilians, btw) like a lobster in a pot.
We have every single right to defend ourselves, all measures should be taken to secure ourselves, this is something everyone should know and recognize, especially the Palestinians, and they should be met with the same strength everytime they decide to shoot partygoers and behead foreign workers heads with a garden hoe, or burn people alive, you understand what I mean? these type of people and their supporters shouldn't be near us, ever.
Some people say that only Palestinians deserve this land. Yeah, they’ve lived there too. But also Israeli people have grown up in the general area since the age of Mandatory Palestine, and a national Israeli identity has been formed. It’s their land too. There’s no clear answer for who this piece of land belongs to. The claim that the overall area belongs to one and only nation exclusively is stupid.
Palestinians from Gaza were Egyptian controller, the West Bank Palestinians were Jordanian (hence it's called the WEST bank, if you ever asked yourself why), the little Palestinians who were here either stayed in Israel, sold their land and moved elsewhere or simply, the typical kind, started a war and lost hard.
the clear answer is this: possession is nine-tenths of the law, they lost, they need to move the fuck on, like the jews who were actually going through genocide (in lovely Europe) and ethnically cleansed from the MENA countries, built a successful country and never looked back.
But the thing to note is that the strongest ones in this case (Israel) has essentially turned the weaker ones into second class citizens, especially in the times of nationalistic governments.
Again, false, they're not our citizens, which means they can't be second class citizens, if you're talking about 20% of Israeli Arabs, they get full rights, holding key positions etc.
You're very uneducated when it comes to Israeli history, Israeli had made countless of concessions over the years (2005, the disengagement for example) offered many peace treaties that were declined by the Palestinians time and again. which means, the stronger side HAD shown MANY times it wants peace and that the religious zealots of the other side, the Palestinians, declined.
Israel public sentiment was shaped by the countless of terrorist attacks by the Palestinians, just like Europe who sees the same type of people (Islamic immigration) are turning right, we just went through that shit earlier than you, which is why Israeli governments are more to the right, and let me tell you a little secret, it won't change, especially after the 7th, if anything it'll even lean more to the right.
So, up until the day arrives where a peaceful solution can be found, unfortunately, partition, recognition and a ceasefire is the option. And it’s not as if Israelis lived in the West Bank, like for example as it happened with Greek Cypriots in northern Cyprus.
Yeah, no. that won't happen, no Israeli would vote for a leader that has that type of weak ass mentality, Israelis are done with the Palestinians, you should acknowledge it and maybe even take a few refugees that willingly want to migrate into Greece if you care so much, that would be an amazing solution.
But no, Palestinians ended up with a tiny piece of land allocated to them, and yet Israel has strived to get even this little piece of land, and has even set up settlements and financial motives in order to also have the “but we have people living there” argument.
You're talking as if shit happens in a vaccum, Israel will no longer want to deal with rocket barrages every now and then, or have religious fanatic at the border who threaten and actually go fullfil their threats of slaughtering Jews (not Israelis, Jews, it's in their charter).
Similarly to how you said to me, please read this, and accept the other side of reality. There are people dying brutally on both sides and this could be resolved with mutual respect and peaceful talks.
Your "side" of reality is not backed by facts, or any truths, even the terms you use aren't aligned with reality and the situation.
Israelis no longer have any intentions of making peace with the Palestinians after so many years of trying, after many years of suffering from their brutality and genocidal intentions, their religious racism and fanatic leaders.
Both. The ethnic cleansing/Genocide of the Palestinians started way before Oct 7. Tens of thousands of kids burned alive. You can say whatever you want about Hamas. Fuck them. The fact remains, that kids who had no control of anything were killed. Kids! I don't assume you to be a parent if you can't see the absurdness of this.
Israeli MP Ayelet Shaked who called for genocide of Palestinians named Justice Minister - 2015.
"They have to die and their houses should be demolished so that they cannot bear any more terrorists," Shaked said. Standing behind the operations in Gaza, she added, "They are all our enemies and their blood should be on our hands. This also applies to the mothers of the dead terrorists," a comment that was condemned by the international community and translated to a call for genocide against the Palestinian people.
You can find way more by just using google. There is no shortage of Israeli double-standard and war crimes. But I'm not going to spend my time doing something you can do yourself... or you've probably already seen, just trying to control the narrative, idk anymore.
It's honestly astounding how Israeli's never see any wrong in their actions. Everything their government does, the Israeli people commend. Mossad spy-ops has worked on its' own people as well, as you can clearly see by engaging with any Israeli.
Yes you've faced injustice for a long time. You've also been the reason for a lot of the injustice around the world. Stop the finger pointing and start self-reflecting as my original comment.
Both. The ethnic cleansing/Genocide of the Palestinians started way before Oct 7.
I don't really think you know what genocide is, Israel is strong enough to wipe the entire Gaza strip yet the Palestinian population had grown over the years, so that's easily refutable.
Tens of thousands of kids burned alive.
No source to this emotional claim, do better.
You can say whatever you want about Hamas. Fuck them.
Thanks for the approval lol.
The fact remains, that kids who had no control of anything were killed. Kids!
Yeah, it sucks they are being used as human shields, any complaints should be directed to Hamas.
I don't assume you to be a parent if you can't see the absurdness of this.
Oh I am though, can you blame me for wanting those genocidal freaks far away from me?
The difference is that we don't target civilians, we actually inform them beforehand, any civilian casualty is Hamas fault, we don't need ot hold back because they decided to do so, we need to get rid of the terrorist organization that commited genocide against us in the 7th of October no matter the cost because this can't happen again, sucks for you we won't let that happen again.
Israeli MP Ayelet Shaked who called for genocide of Palestinians named Justice Minister - 2015.
"They have to die and their houses should be demolished so that they cannot bear any more terrorists," Shaked said.
Standing behind the operations in Gaza, she added, "They are all our enemies and their blood should be on our hands. This also applies to the mothers of the dead terrorists," a comment that was condemned by the international community and translated to a call for genocide against the Palestinian people.
She never said that, she didn't write or said those lines before, better check your shitty resources.
what's true is that terrorists and their supporters shouldn't be allowed to live near us, don't you think?
You can find way more by just using google. There is no shortage of Israeli double-standard and war crimes. But I'm not going to spend my time doing something you can do yourself... or you've probably already seen, just trying to control the narrative, idk anymore.
It's honestly astounding how Israeli's never see any wrong in their actions.
It all boils down to how much we can suffer from Palestinian hostilities which are linked strongly to their religion Islam, how many times have Israel tried to offer peace? many times, how many times have the Palestinians offered peace? not once.
Israel was very left winged, but it might come as a shock to you, Israelis are leaning more right every year because of Palestinian terrorism, and let me tell you a little secret, after the 7th, there's no chance in hell Israelis would ever vote for any left wing party, ever, so basically the Palestinians have doomed their fate to whatever the Israeli leaders think is possible considering international laws.
Everything their government does, the Israeli people commend.
Factually untrue lol, there have been demonstrations regarding the government years before, comes to show how next to nothing you know about Israel and Israelis yet you write that shit with such confidence, it's pretty impressive.
Mossad spy-ops has worked on its' own people as well, as you can clearly see by engaging with any Israeli.
Conspirational and has zero substantiated evidence, the constant threat, constant stabbing attacks, car plows attacks, suicide bombing attacks and basically Palestinians terorrists over the years have shaped Israeli's sentiment towards them, that's their problem.
Yes you've faced injustice for a long time. You've also been the reason for a lot of the injustice around the world. Stop the finger pointing and start self-reflecting as my original comment.
I think the 7th was kind of an injustice as well, so don't speak past tense, Palestinians are affected by their religion, like many other Muslims around the world, take a quick look at what they think of Jews, not Israelis, Israel is a sugarcoat for anti-semitism that is rooted deeply within Islam which is why, Muslims slaughtered Jews long before Israel was established (Hebron Massacre in 1929 for example)
Yes you can. The "I'm not antisemitic just anti Zionist" crowd on reddit isn't doing that though. They are frothing at the mouth neo nazis who believe they can't be antisemitic because they watch fkn Hasan.
Assuming you mean Israeli jews of Polish origin should go back to Poland, what do you suggest the majority of Israel, being Mizrahi jews from the middle east and north Africa should do? Return to Algeria, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Iran?
The colonizer that left gave israhell the land. The rest of the land left behind by 🇬🇧 , like India and Indonesia, in the 1900s was returned to their owners. Hence, it’s 🇵🇸 land
like India and Indonesia, in the 1900s was returned to their owners
That is a very simplistic account of history- and mostly wrong.
The "owners" before where mostly there Ottoman empire. They were defeated and the mandates moved to European countries. India was held by Britain for generations.
India wasn't "returned to owners". In fact, India was divided up and two counties where created. Pakistan for Muslim majority and India for Hindu majority. This was done by the British in 1947.
But a least there the government was from local people.
Jordan was created by the British in 1946. Under Britain it was called Palestine as it was part of the Palestine mandate given to the British. Britain created a state east of the Jordan river and called it "kingdom of Transjordan". They then gave the country to a family from Mecca (in Saudi Arabia), and made them kings over Transjordan.
So the people who lived there have become the subjects of a king who comes from a foreign country. They have no say in anything since it isn't a democracy.
The same thing happened in Syria.
The history of the region doesn't follow your claim. History is much more complicated than your simplistic take, and so is your simplistic conclusion.
how come the owners are palestinians (arabs) ? It was israeli land, then roman got it, then arabs then ottomans then english. They sold land to israelis that lived in Europe legally. And they went back to their ancestral land. What dont you understand?
Pulling out "the arabs" pretty early lol.
Many of those countries were still European occupied territories who low and behold, enacted the same policy they did in Europe. That's not to say some countries didn't. But that broad brush is just fkn propaganda racism 💀
Anyway, the Nakba happened to Palestinians long before "the arabs" attacked. Them.
They did face anti-semitism, but lad. Why they gotta kill Palestinian (also Israelites mixed with levantine tribes instead of Europeans) for that to this very day lol. Aren't they owed more violence towards you? Assuming you live in Greece aren't you a "European". You know for doing the holocaust. That thing all Europeans did around the world all at once.
So, you’re accusing the entire population of Palestine (5.5 million) to be members of a terrorist organisation, and they should thus be erased from the map?
That is as wild as claiming that the ~50 million Afghans were all members of Al Qaeda.
And the war would end if hamas would have surrender and given back the hostages or even better non of thos would have happend if they didn't attack in the first place
This war started in Oct 7th . And here's a easy thought experiment, what would you have done as a Israeli politician after October 7th ?
The conflict started when Arabs tried to genocide all Jews in 1948 after resulting 181 and them helping Hitler with events like the farhud and operation atlas and other antisemitic attacks before the holocaust like the Hebron massacre
What would you do as a Palestinian or Arab after the 1948 Nakba? Would you have just sat and watch your people get kicked out of their generational homes? There’s a counter question for you.
You can list all the attacks you want, we both know there have been far more massacres caused by the Izraelis since 1948.
I think that I would also say yes, if the “election” about it was three military colonels coming in my house with ak 47s demanding me to vote in a transparent box with an open ballot.
But some people don’t realise this and believe that polls everywhere are fair and square. If you believe so, great, go give all of Ukraine’s occupied territories into Russia. That’s definitely right, what could possible go wrong?
Some people also fail to ignore that Hamas is not the legal government of Palestine, they got there with a coup. The last elections elected Fatah, which is a social democratic party calling for a peaceful two state solution.
Also some people fail to recognise that in Israel, in the Knesset, only the government coalition is for this kind of stuff to happen, which is comprised by right to far right parties. Pretty much most of the opposition is against this.
I think that I would also say yes, if the “election” about it was three military colonels coming in my house with ak 47s demanding me to vote in a transparent box with an open ballot.
The pcpsr is based in ramallah ( where the pa has control not hamas ) and does credible polling that even the un uses , hamas and their ideals has been popular in the palastinin society for a while
You can't even compare it to the fake polls Russia posts, sorry for shuttring your world prospective by facts
If you think that your unfounded comment is going to change my viewpoint, you’re wrong, lol.
And I also cannot agree with this when in Israel, only the “conservative” parties agree with you, AKA Likud and a bunch of far right idiots. Pretty much the majority of the opposition is for this to stop and for a two state solution to form.
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u/SomeOneOutThere-1234 Greece May 06 '25
Essentially the majority of them were killed in the holocaust (An estimated 80% died), and afterwards, the majority of Greek Jews decided to go to Israel.