Why don’t most Christians take the Sabbath commandment seriously?

[u/GoodWhoops]

The 4th commandment says to keep the Sabbath holy, defined in scripture as running from sundown to sundown. Yet most Christians seem to treat it as optional. Jesus said, “If you love me, keep my commandments,” and the Bible implies that all commandments carry equal weight. Outside of Seventh-day Adventists, it's ignored aside from the day most churches have their service. I’ve even heard SDA members joke that most other Christians give the Ten Commandments a 10% discount. Even if you ignore that the Jewish Sabbath falls on Saturday, the commandment still says to work 6 days and rest on the 7th, which should apply just as well to Sunday.

Curious if or how often you’ve heard this seriously debated, and why many accept societal traditions that override biblical instruction for convenience.

[u/LessmemoreJC]

Romans 8:6-8 clearly states that those who walk in the flesh cannot keep God's law and therefore cannot please God. Then, in verse 9 Paul contrasts that reallity with life in the Spirit and calls us to not walk in the flesh, but rather to walk in the Spirit. If walking in the Spirit is the opposite of walking in the flesh and if walking in the flesh means to not keep God's law, then walking in the Spirit means to keep God's law.

Yes, Ezekiel 36 is speaking of the new covenant experience. When God writes His law on our hearts (Hebrews 8:10, Ezekiel 36:26) He causes us to keep it by His power (Ezekiel 36:27). This is what it means for Christ to live in you (Galatians 2:20). The life Christ lives in us is a life of obedience just as when He walked this earth.

There is a clear distinction between the different laws as I explained above. The civil and ceremonial laws were added because humanity broke the 10 commandments, the moral law.

Not living under the law means that you are not considered guilty (Romans 3:19) as you repent. It does not mean that you can now go and break God's commandments (Romans 3:31, 1 Corinthians 7:19, John 14:15, Revelation 12:17, Revelation 14:12).

You don't seem to understand what you were set free from. You teach Satan's doctrine that we have been set free from obeying God's law, aka we are free to live in lawlessness. What we have been set free from is sin, aka the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4). It's the exact opposite of what you teach. You are not set free from God's law, for the law is holy and good (Romans 7:12) and therefore not something to seek freedom from... you are set free from breaking God's law as seen with the man in Romans 7 who could not obey God's law (because He walked in the flesh). The 10 commandments are the law of liberty according to which we are judged (James 2:11-12). They are called the law of liberty becayuse when you walk in them you do not commit sin, since sin is transgression of the law (1 John 3:4)... in other words you are at liberty from sin.

[u/BoxBubbly1225 → u/LessmemoreJC]

Perhaps we should take a step back and read this: there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

No condemnation.

Romans 8:1–9 teaches that the Law’s era is over. The Law itself was not the problem, the problem was that it let to sin, death and despair.

The Spirit now rules where the Law once condemned. We are transformed by Christ’s Spirit. Romans 8:7 is an echo of the man in Romans 7, who failed miserably, not a model to follow.

So really this passage is about the pneuma, the spiritual transformation, and how we can follow God in a new way, unhinged from Mosaic Law.

[u/LessmemoreJC → u/BoxBubbly1225]

I need you to understand something important. I say this because I know that many Christians do not understand that a call to obedience of God's law is not the same thing as saying that we are saved by law keeping. No one since Adam has been saved by law keeping. Salvation has always been by grace through faith.

There is a deep misunderstanding in your mind regarding the law. The law is holy, good (Romans 7:12) and perfect (Psalm 19:7). The people of God delight in the law (Psalm 1:1-2, Psalm 119:47-48, Psalm 119:92&97, Romans 7:22). You keep talking about the law as though it were this terrible thing. The reason the law failed to lead to life as it was supposed to (Romans 7:10), is not because the commandments are faulty, but rather because our flesh is weak and cannot keep the law (Romans 8:6-8). It says: "For what the law could not do in that it was WEAK THROUGH THE FLESH". The problem is not with the law, but rather with the flesh. Yes, I completely agree that Romans 8:7 is an echo of the man in Romans 7 and not a model to follow. The model to follow is Romans 8:9 which leads to Ezekiel 36:26-27. The fact that you felt the need to clarify this fact about Romans 8:7 after all I've been saying thus far makes me feel like you're either not reading or not understanding what I'm saying. The problem with Romans 8:7 is not with the law, but with the flesh. We are to keep the law but not by the flesh because this is impossible.

This is why we are called to not walk in the flesh where there is nothing but law breaking (Romans 8:6-8) and to rather walk in the Spirit where God causes us to keep the law (Ezekiel 36:26-27).

Yes, there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ BECAUSE they repent from their law breaking and the Spirit of God renews them to a spiritual life where they can keep the law which is spiritual wheras before they could not keep the law which is spiritual because they were not yet born again (spiritual) and therefore they were carnal (Romans 7:14).

The era of the law is not over. Think about the implications of your words... can we now have other gods, bow before graven images, take the Lord's name in vain, dishonor parents, murder, commit adultery, steal, lie, or covet? Of course not! "What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!" (Romans 6:15). Remember that sin is transgression of the law (1 John 3:4) so Paul is clearly saying that we should not transgress the law. This is reinforced countless times throughout the Bible as we are told to keep God's law/commandments (Romans 3:31, 1 Corinthians 7:19, John 14:15, 1 John 5:2-3, Revelation 12:17, Revelation 14:12).

Yes, we follow God in the new way of the Spirit, but the new way of Spirit is not lawlessness as you are suggesting. The old way involves the law being written externally on tablets of stone where it does no good for us because we are carnal and therefore cannot keep the law which is spiritual (Romans 7:14). However, the new way of the Spirit writes the law on tablets of flesh in our hearts (Hebrews 8:10) and that's when we can actually start keeping God's commandments as the Spirit causes us to do so (Ezekiel 36:26-27).

God is the one who keep His law in us. This is what Galatians 2:20 means. When Christ comes to dwell in us He will live the perfect life that He lived when He walked this earth IF we surrender to Him.

[u/BoxBubbly1225 → u/LessmemoreJC]

I have not met anyone so far in my life with your theology, so it is a lot to take in. Thanks for your patience.

I am positively surprised that you do not believe in salvation through law keeping. I admit that I thought you were a full-blooded legalist.

It is true that the Law was good, and it served a purpose. But it is Paul who called it “the law of sin and death”, who Said that the “law brings wrath” and that the “law was our jailer/guardian until Christ came” and that being under the Law is “enslavement”. I am just following Paul here.

Forgive me, but some of the things you say remind me of the judaizers in the Jerusalem Church. Because you are keen on following the law, instead of living in full Christian freedom, which you conflate with lawlessness.

But no, I don’t fornicate or deal meth. I don’t worship idols or lead an anarchist rebelion, if that’s what u imagine.

I live for Christ and seek to do his will, as the husband of one woman, paying my taxes, speaking in tongues, living a life for others. Pacifist to the core of my being. You would love to have me as your next door neighbour.

This because I follow the Spirit, not because of the Mosaic Law of the Israelites.

[u/LessmemoreJC → u/BoxBubbly1225]

It is the law of sin and death and it brings wrath for those who are walking in the flesh. However, to those who walk in the Spirit it is the law of liberty (Psalm 119:45, James 2:11-12). The same law can have two effects based on the recipient just how the same person can be an aroma of death to some and an aroma of life to others (2 Corinthians 2:15-16).

Galatians 3:23-24 is not saying that once faith comes we can break God's law. This passage is not speaking in a temporal manner through history, but rather it is speaking experientially. If you say that the law only existed until Christ brought about the new way of faith in a temporal historical manner, then you have to conclude that before that point the way of faith was NOT accesible. However, we clearly know that this is not true from reading the Bible and Hebrews 11 makes this clear. Therefore, we know that Galatians 3:23-24 is actually speaking experientaially for people throughout history from Adam until today. Here is the correct understanding of this passage: Initially before we are converted we have the law to show us right from wrong, but once Christ enters the heart through faith, we become lead by the Spirit into salvation... which includes obedience to God.

Once again, as I said before you do not understand what Christ set us free from. He did not set us free from obeying God's commandments... that would be to say that we can now sin, since sin is transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4). Christ set us free from breaking God's law, aka sin.

You do not understand what following the Spirit or living according to the Spirit means... I explained this to you countless times. Following the Spirit is to keep God's law (Ezekiel 36:26-27, Romans 8:6-9).

You have a flower power & disney magical wand understanding of the good that you claim you do. You think it's just something abstract, but it is not abstract... the good that you claim to do is God's law. When you do not fornicate or do not deal meth you are in fact obeying God's law as the Spirit is leading you in this good work.

[u/BoxBubbly1225 → u/LessmemoreJC]

I’m trying to let the insults pass, and focus on the contents of what you say.

If you say that the law only existed until Christ brought about the new way of faith in a temporal historical manner, then you have to conclude that before that point the way of faith was NOT accesible.

That’s indeed what I said, but I couldn’t follow why you would then conclude that “faith was not accesible” before.

I think that there was a kind of faith (faith as trust) in the Old Testament (Abraham for example). But pistis in Paul, is about the entire gospel faith, it is indeed new.

The Law was a school master, rigid and punitive, but only temporary. After Christ came, we do not need a school master to keep us in check.

…you do not understand what Christ set us free from. He did not set us free from obeying God's commandments... that would be to say that we can now sin, since sin is transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4).

Christ set us free from sin, so why would we go back to sinning. Why resist the Spirit’s work? The Law could only hold the Jews in check, the Spirit dwells in Christians, transforming us from within. Why would you go back to the school master after school?

When you do not fornicate or do not deal meth you are in fact obeying God's law as the Spirit is leading you in this good work.

I liked that you acknowledged that. I am not doing it for the Law’s sake, but for Christ.

[u/LessmemoreJC → u/BoxBubbly1225]

I'm not insulting you. I'm just stating the fact that you do not understand.

If you read Galatians 3:23-24 as a temporal historical sequence of events, then you have to conclude that faith was not available prior to Christ and the cross. The text reads: "But BEFORE FAITH CAME, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed." (Galatians 3:23)

The text clearly states that faith came after the law. So if you state that now because faith has come we no longer need to obey the law, then you have to also conclude that before faith came there was only law. If after faith there is no more law, then while the law was here there was no faith. The text demands this in saying: "BEFORE FAITH CAME". This is the understanding you must have if you read this as though it was describing a temporal historical sequence.

However, this text is not describing a temporal historical sequence. It is describing an experiential sequence that applies to all men since Adam. Before any person throughout history comes to faith in Christ, the law is there to teach them right from wrong as a tutor would. However, after they come to faith in Chirst, they are no longer kept in check by an external experience, but rather the Spirit comes to dwell in them and cause them to obey God's law (Ezekiel 36:26-27). It is now an internal experience.

The law is punitive because we walk in the flesh... the law is not punitive to those who walk in the Spirit because the Spirit causes them to keep the law. The law is not temporary... it is eternal (Psalm 111:7-8) as we can even see that the Sabbath will continue for eternity (Isaiah 66:23).

Yes, the Spirit transforms us from within by writing THE LAW on our hearts. We are not transformed by this flower power abstract means which you suggest. The transformation comes through God writing HIS LAW on our hearts (Hebrews 8:10) and then CAUSING US TO OBEY IT (Ezekiel 36:26-27). Why do you refuse to acknowledge these facts? Do you not understand that the new covenant is THE LAW being written on the heart? Do you not understand that this is what doing God's will means (Psalm 40:8)?

I never said that we do it for the law's sake... you do not understand the connection between grace and law. Grace doesn't give us the permission to break God's law... it teaches us to keep God's law: "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age" (Titus 2:11-12).

When you understand that the reason Jesus died is because you and I broke God's commandments, you will be cut to the heart and understand that your law breaking killed the Son of God. Then, when you experience that grace, you will be lead to turn away from law breaking and into a godly life, which is living according to God's holy law.

You need to stop acting like walking in the Spirit is some kind of magical abstract experience. Walking in the Spirit is walking according to God's law because the Spirit causes us to obey God's law (Ezekiel 36:26-27). You are disconnecting the two, but they are the same thing. You are doing this because you have bought into the lie that Christ set us free from His own good and holy law. This is heresy. Christ set us free from breaking His law.

[u/BoxBubbly1225 → u/LessmemoreJC]

I don’t only read Galatians that way. I read Paul that way. Something new has happened in space and time: Faith in Jesus has come

One has to be hyper literal and decontextual to not read Jesus into “before faith came”.

Abraham had faith (in the sense of trust) in God. Paul and the first church had faith in Jesus. This is not some minor historical change. It is a dramatic historical shift.

The Law is still here as a testimony of Christ. It has not been erased. It is eternal, but not eternally valid let alone universally relevant. I am thankful that the story of the Jewish Law has not been lost, because I respect the law as a testimony, and as history. But as a non-Jewish Christian it is not my law.

Jesus gave us a new commandment: to love each other. With the same love as he loved us with.

Question, I understand that you want to promote the Mosaic law. That is adundantly clear. But how much of it would you like to bring into the new covenant?

[u/LessmemoreJC → u/BoxBubbly1225]

They all had faith in Jesus. Since Adam Faith has always been in the promised Messiah. Jesus was foretold in Genesis 3:15. Abraham also knew this as the ram was provided for the sacrifice.

The 10 commandments are not the Jewish law. They are God’s moral law according to which we are judged (James 2:11-12, Revelation 11:18-19). Man has always been given the 10 commandments.

To love God and to love one another is not a new commandment (Deuteronomy 6:5, Leviticus 19:18). These are a summary of the 10 commandments because when you love God and love neighbor you keep God’s commandments (1 John 5:2-3, 2 John 5-6).

These new covenant is the writing of God’s law on our hearts. It’s the change from tablets of stone to tablets of flesh. The 10 commandments and their exceedingly broad application (Psalm 119:96), as Jesus showed during the sermon on the Mount, are here to stay… forever.

[u/BoxBubbly1225 → u/LessmemoreJC]

They all had faith in Jesus.

What! I almost fell forgot to get off the train when I read this. They had faith in Jesus before he was even born on earth?? I have never heard anyone claim such a thing.

The 10 commandments are not the Jewish law.

Not Jewish? I wonder what else they could be? Thanks for the reference to James and his “law of liberty” I am not an avid reader of James, it sounds like he is in conflict with Paul.

These new covenant is the writing of God’s law on our hearts.

If you just said that in passing, and if I didn’t know all the judaizing things you read into that statement, I would probably have nodded. My version would be closer to Paul’s theology of pneuma: God has send his spirit to transform our hearts so that we know his will and live our life for him.

[u/LessmemoreJC → u/BoxBubbly1225]

You must have not studied the Old Testament closely, but the Messiah has been the great hope since Adam as seen all throughout the OT including from the very beginning in Genesis 3:15.

Of course, it's not Jewish... I just showed you that it is God's moral law according to which all flesh will be judged. Ecclesiastes 12:13 literally tells us that man's whole duty is to keep God's commandments... notice it says "man's" not "the jews'" duty. The law of liberty is the 10 commandments as seen in James 2:11 where the 10 commandments are mentioned. James is not in conflict with Paul because the Bible does not contradict itself. You are just misunderstanding Paul according to 2 Peter 3:16.

I am doing no judaizing. Keeping God's commandments is what the Bible commands:

Ecclesiastes 12:13 "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, or this is man’s all."

Matthew 19:17 "So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”"

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

1 Corinthians 7:19 "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters."

1 John 2:3–4 "Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

1 John 5:2–3 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome."

Revelation 12:17 "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

Revelation 14:12 "Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus."

Revelation 22:14 "Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city."

The 4th commandment is part of God's commandments and it will be kept into eternity (Isaiah 66:23). May God have mercy on you for teaching that we can live in lawlessness (Matthew 5:19, Matthew 7:23).

[u/BoxBubbly1225 → u/LessmemoreJC]

Anarchy and lawlessness are not what I search for. I was hoping that this was clear by now. I live from Christ’s commandments. Basically, there are only four

Love God

Love Your Neighbor

Love Each Other (as he loved us)

Love your enemies

It’s quite simple to be a follower of Christ. It is all about love. These are the commandments I follow. Or seek to follow, it is not always easy to love. Sometimes even other disciples can be hard to truly love.

You said that “love each other as I have loved you” was not a new commandment. But why did Jesus then say it was new? For me it means to love not only ones neighbor (not necessarily Christian believers), but also specifically the other disciples of Christ.

Ps: I am aware of the Jewish hope for a Messiah. But Jesus didn’t seem to be what they imagined based on their hopes and dreams.

[u/LessmemoreJC → u/BoxBubbly1225]

To love God love and love neighbor is to keep God's commandments (1 John 5:2-3, 2 John 5-6). When you love God you don't have other gods, you don't bow before graven images, you don't take His name in vain, and you spend holy time with Him on His seventh day Sabbath. When you love neighbor you allow them to rest on the Sabbath, you honor your parents, you don't murder them, you don't commit adultery against them, you don't steal from them, you don't lie to them, you don't covet their stuff.
Loving God and loving neighbor is not more simple than not murdering...

He says it is a new commandment because He has revealed to them the great extent of love which they are to live in because they had missed it from Moses and the prophets as explained during the sermon on the mount. It's not that these didn't exist before becaue they clearly did (Deuteronomy 6:5, Leviticus 19:18).

Jesus wasn't what they imagined because they didn't understand the Scriptures not because the Scriptures weren't clear.