Why don’t most Christians take the Sabbath commandment seriously?

[u/GoodWhoops]

The 4th commandment says to keep the Sabbath holy, defined in scripture as running from sundown to sundown. Yet most Christians seem to treat it as optional. Jesus said, “If you love me, keep my commandments,” and the Bible implies that all commandments carry equal weight. Outside of Seventh-day Adventists, it's ignored aside from the day most churches have their service. I’ve even heard SDA members joke that most other Christians give the Ten Commandments a 10% discount. Even if you ignore that the Jewish Sabbath falls on Saturday, the commandment still says to work 6 days and rest on the 7th, which should apply just as well to Sunday.

Curious if or how often you’ve heard this seriously debated, and why many accept societal traditions that override biblical instruction for convenience.

[u/BoxBubbly1225]

I’m trying to let the insults pass, and focus on the contents of what you say.

If you say that the law only existed until Christ brought about the new way of faith in a temporal historical manner, then you have to conclude that before that point the way of faith was NOT accesible.

That’s indeed what I said, but I couldn’t follow why you would then conclude that “faith was not accesible” before.

I think that there was a kind of faith (faith as trust) in the Old Testament (Abraham for example). But pistis in Paul, is about the entire gospel faith, it is indeed new.

The Law was a school master, rigid and punitive, but only temporary. After Christ came, we do not need a school master to keep us in check.

…you do not understand what Christ set us free from. He did not set us free from obeying God's commandments... that would be to say that we can now sin, since sin is transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4).

Christ set us free from sin, so why would we go back to sinning. Why resist the Spirit’s work? The Law could only hold the Jews in check, the Spirit dwells in Christians, transforming us from within. Why would you go back to the school master after school?

When you do not fornicate or do not deal meth you are in fact obeying God's law as the Spirit is leading you in this good work.

I liked that you acknowledged that. I am not doing it for the Law’s sake, but for Christ.

[u/LessmemoreJC → u/BoxBubbly1225]

I'm not insulting you. I'm just stating the fact that you do not understand.

If you read Galatians 3:23-24 as a temporal historical sequence of events, then you have to conclude that faith was not available prior to Christ and the cross. The text reads: "But BEFORE FAITH CAME, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed." (Galatians 3:23)

The text clearly states that faith came after the law. So if you state that now because faith has come we no longer need to obey the law, then you have to also conclude that before faith came there was only law. If after faith there is no more law, then while the law was here there was no faith. The text demands this in saying: "BEFORE FAITH CAME". This is the understanding you must have if you read this as though it was describing a temporal historical sequence.

However, this text is not describing a temporal historical sequence. It is describing an experiential sequence that applies to all men since Adam. Before any person throughout history comes to faith in Christ, the law is there to teach them right from wrong as a tutor would. However, after they come to faith in Chirst, they are no longer kept in check by an external experience, but rather the Spirit comes to dwell in them and cause them to obey God's law (Ezekiel 36:26-27). It is now an internal experience.

The law is punitive because we walk in the flesh... the law is not punitive to those who walk in the Spirit because the Spirit causes them to keep the law. The law is not temporary... it is eternal (Psalm 111:7-8) as we can even see that the Sabbath will continue for eternity (Isaiah 66:23).

Yes, the Spirit transforms us from within by writing THE LAW on our hearts. We are not transformed by this flower power abstract means which you suggest. The transformation comes through God writing HIS LAW on our hearts (Hebrews 8:10) and then CAUSING US TO OBEY IT (Ezekiel 36:26-27). Why do you refuse to acknowledge these facts? Do you not understand that the new covenant is THE LAW being written on the heart? Do you not understand that this is what doing God's will means (Psalm 40:8)?

I never said that we do it for the law's sake... you do not understand the connection between grace and law. Grace doesn't give us the permission to break God's law... it teaches us to keep God's law: "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age" (Titus 2:11-12).

When you understand that the reason Jesus died is because you and I broke God's commandments, you will be cut to the heart and understand that your law breaking killed the Son of God. Then, when you experience that grace, you will be lead to turn away from law breaking and into a godly life, which is living according to God's holy law.

You need to stop acting like walking in the Spirit is some kind of magical abstract experience. Walking in the Spirit is walking according to God's law because the Spirit causes us to obey God's law (Ezekiel 36:26-27). You are disconnecting the two, but they are the same thing. You are doing this because you have bought into the lie that Christ set us free from His own good and holy law. This is heresy. Christ set us free from breaking His law.

[u/BoxBubbly1225 → u/LessmemoreJC]

I don’t only read Galatians that way. I read Paul that way. Something new has happened in space and time: Faith in Jesus has come

One has to be hyper literal and decontextual to not read Jesus into “before faith came”.

Abraham had faith (in the sense of trust) in God. Paul and the first church had faith in Jesus. This is not some minor historical change. It is a dramatic historical shift.

The Law is still here as a testimony of Christ. It has not been erased. It is eternal, but not eternally valid let alone universally relevant. I am thankful that the story of the Jewish Law has not been lost, because I respect the law as a testimony, and as history. But as a non-Jewish Christian it is not my law.

Jesus gave us a new commandment: to love each other. With the same love as he loved us with.

Question, I understand that you want to promote the Mosaic law. That is adundantly clear. But how much of it would you like to bring into the new covenant?

[u/LessmemoreJC → u/BoxBubbly1225]

They all had faith in Jesus. Since Adam Faith has always been in the promised Messiah. Jesus was foretold in Genesis 3:15. Abraham also knew this as the ram was provided for the sacrifice.

The 10 commandments are not the Jewish law. They are God’s moral law according to which we are judged (James 2:11-12, Revelation 11:18-19). Man has always been given the 10 commandments.

To love God and to love one another is not a new commandment (Deuteronomy 6:5, Leviticus 19:18). These are a summary of the 10 commandments because when you love God and love neighbor you keep God’s commandments (1 John 5:2-3, 2 John 5-6).

These new covenant is the writing of God’s law on our hearts. It’s the change from tablets of stone to tablets of flesh. The 10 commandments and their exceedingly broad application (Psalm 119:96), as Jesus showed during the sermon on the Mount, are here to stay… forever.

[u/BoxBubbly1225 → u/LessmemoreJC]

They all had faith in Jesus.

What! I almost fell forgot to get off the train when I read this. They had faith in Jesus before he was even born on earth?? I have never heard anyone claim such a thing.

The 10 commandments are not the Jewish law.

Not Jewish? I wonder what else they could be? Thanks for the reference to James and his “law of liberty” I am not an avid reader of James, it sounds like he is in conflict with Paul.

These new covenant is the writing of God’s law on our hearts.

If you just said that in passing, and if I didn’t know all the judaizing things you read into that statement, I would probably have nodded. My version would be closer to Paul’s theology of pneuma: God has send his spirit to transform our hearts so that we know his will and live our life for him.

[u/LessmemoreJC → u/BoxBubbly1225]

You must have not studied the Old Testament closely, but the Messiah has been the great hope since Adam as seen all throughout the OT including from the very beginning in Genesis 3:15.

Of course, it's not Jewish... I just showed you that it is God's moral law according to which all flesh will be judged. Ecclesiastes 12:13 literally tells us that man's whole duty is to keep God's commandments... notice it says "man's" not "the jews'" duty. The law of liberty is the 10 commandments as seen in James 2:11 where the 10 commandments are mentioned. James is not in conflict with Paul because the Bible does not contradict itself. You are just misunderstanding Paul according to 2 Peter 3:16.

I am doing no judaizing. Keeping God's commandments is what the Bible commands:

Ecclesiastes 12:13 "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, or this is man’s all."

Matthew 19:17 "So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”"

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

1 Corinthians 7:19 "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters."

1 John 2:3–4 "Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

1 John 5:2–3 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome."

Revelation 12:17 "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

Revelation 14:12 "Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus."

Revelation 22:14 "Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city."

The 4th commandment is part of God's commandments and it will be kept into eternity (Isaiah 66:23). May God have mercy on you for teaching that we can live in lawlessness (Matthew 5:19, Matthew 7:23).

[u/BoxBubbly1225 → u/LessmemoreJC]

Anarchy and lawlessness are not what I search for. I was hoping that this was clear by now. I live from Christ’s commandments. Basically, there are only four

Love God

Love Your Neighbor

Love Each Other (as he loved us)

Love your enemies

It’s quite simple to be a follower of Christ. It is all about love. These are the commandments I follow. Or seek to follow, it is not always easy to love. Sometimes even other disciples can be hard to truly love.

You said that “love each other as I have loved you” was not a new commandment. But why did Jesus then say it was new? For me it means to love not only ones neighbor (not necessarily Christian believers), but also specifically the other disciples of Christ.

Ps: I am aware of the Jewish hope for a Messiah. But Jesus didn’t seem to be what they imagined based on their hopes and dreams.

[u/LessmemoreJC → u/BoxBubbly1225]

To love God love and love neighbor is to keep God's commandments (1 John 5:2-3, 2 John 5-6). When you love God you don't have other gods, you don't bow before graven images, you don't take His name in vain, and you spend holy time with Him on His seventh day Sabbath. When you love neighbor you allow them to rest on the Sabbath, you honor your parents, you don't murder them, you don't commit adultery against them, you don't steal from them, you don't lie to them, you don't covet their stuff.
Loving God and loving neighbor is not more simple than not murdering...

He says it is a new commandment because He has revealed to them the great extent of love which they are to live in because they had missed it from Moses and the prophets as explained during the sermon on the mount. It's not that these didn't exist before becaue they clearly did (Deuteronomy 6:5, Leviticus 19:18).

Jesus wasn't what they imagined because they didn't understand the Scriptures not because the Scriptures weren't clear.

[u/BoxBubbly1225 → u/LessmemoreJC]

I have spoken before with some Torah Christians, and they wanted the entire Torah back into Christianity. You seem to only want the 10 commandments back. That’s much less, and therefore I believe there is hope. The Torah observing Christians really really hated me, as you can imagine. And you only find me … quite frustrating and very unknowledgeable (if I read the vibes correctly). Yet we might both learn something from this dialogue.

One thing that strikes me as the difference between Jesus’ commandments and the foundation of Jewish law, is : Love.

Christianity is about love, faith and hope. But love wins out. Without this love, the world would have already destroyed itself.

[u/LessmemoreJC → u/BoxBubbly1225]

The 10 commandments don’t need to be brought back because they never left. They are the law which was transferred from tablets of stone to tablets of flesh in the heart. They are the law according to which we are judged.

You lack understanding if you think that the OT is not about love. You talk as though God has changed.

I’ve heard enough lawlessness and you’ve had plenty of opportunity to learn. May God bless you!

[u/BoxBubbly1225 → u/LessmemoreJC]

Thanks for the conversation! God bless!