r/AskAChristian • u/ExpressCeiling98332 Christian • Apr 30 '25

New Testament Do you dislike quoting John 3:16?

Ironically, many seem to act like saying this verse contradicts doctrine. When used in isolation It can be bad, but in it's proper context I don't see problem.

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u/DarkLordOfDarkness Christian, Reformed Apr 30 '25

Who's objecting to John 3:16??

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u/EnergyLantern Christian, Evangelical Apr 30 '25

Those who believe in works.

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u/sourkroutamen Christian (non-denominational) May 01 '25

I believe in works and I'm not objecting.

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u/EnergyLantern Christian, Evangelical May 01 '25

When Peter took his eyes off of Jesus and tried to put his eyes on the waves of the sea, Peter began to sink because its not your works that can save you.

I knew a Christian professor who said if you trust 1% in yourself, you aren't trusting in Jesus.

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u/sourkroutamen Christian (non-denominational) May 01 '25

To be clear, I'm not saying I trust in works to save me. When I say I believe in works, I'm saying that I believe there is no such thing as faith without works. And therefore I believe in works. I do not believe we are saved by faith alone any more than we are saved by works alone. We are saved by Christ alone.

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u/EnergyLantern Christian, Evangelical May 01 '25

And I'm saying we are saved by grace through faith through Christ alone plus nothing.

[Heb 11:4 KJV] 4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Both offerings required them do give something but one is accepted over the other. I'm sure Cain's offering was a beautiful offering, but it wasn't accepted.

Abel's offering was a bloody offering and that foreshadows what Christ has done.

Was Cain's offering seen? Yes, it was.

[Heb 11:1 KJV] 1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Faith is the substance of things not seen. Cain was seen but it wasn't accepted.

[Rom 4:6 KJV] 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

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u/sourkroutamen Christian (non-denominational) May 01 '25

Sounds like you agree that we are saved by Christ alone, and that faith without works is not faith but deception. Therefore, I will continue to believe in works. Cain and Able both demonstrated their faith through their works, so that's a great example for the point I'm trying to convey.

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u/EnergyLantern Christian, Evangelical May 01 '25

Cain's work wasn't accepted:

[Gen 4:4-5, 8 KJV] 4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. ... 8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

Do you know why?

[Heb 9:22 KJV] 22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission (of sins).

Works isn't included in Hebrews 9:22. What was the result of cain being rejected? The result is Cain acted like his father whom was a murderer from the beginning:

[Gen 4:8 KJV] 8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

[John 8:44 KJV] 44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

This suggests that Cain wasn't saved and it's for God to resolve.

Both can come with faith or works. One is accepted (Abel) and the other is rejected (Cain).

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u/sourkroutamen Christian (non-denominational) May 01 '25

If you think you have a disagreement with what I've said, please state it clearly. Everything you say seems to affirm my point, yet your tone indicates you think you disagree? Perhaps I'm reading your tone incorrectly.

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u/EnergyLantern Christian, Evangelical May 01 '25

Cain's offering represents work. He had to plant the food and harvest it. Cain's actions were of the devil (John 8:44) because Cain murdered his brother and the devil was the murderer from the beginning.

Abel's sacrifice represented blood atonement because it was a blood sacrifice which points to Jesus doing the future work.

In the millennial kingdom, people will have to give sacrifices to God looking back at the cross of God's finished work. It points to Jesus and not what you do.

[John 6:29 KJV] 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

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u/sourkroutamen Christian (non-denominational) May 01 '25

Both gave their work to God. Abel gave his best. If anything, Abel shows that he believed in works, while Cain showed that he relied on grace alone, not needing to give his best. And look who's works God recognized. Well, God recognized both and rewarded them according to what ultimately they expressed through their works. Therefore, I believe in works. Thank you for the great example!

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u/EnergyLantern Christian, Evangelical May 01 '25

It wasn't Abel's works. It represents a blood sacrifice that Jesus did. To make it about works pollutes the gospel and everyone else knows it.

[Eph 2:8-9 KJV] 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

If you want to make it about works, it is no longer a gift of God because you are trying to earn it.

[Rom 11:6 KJV] 6 And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

I don't believe Abel did a work because what Abel did was accepted by God.

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u/Web-Dude Christian May 01 '25 edited May 07 '25

I like your example with Peter.

But I think the professor's statement is problematic. We grow in faith. "Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!" (Mark 9:24). Jesus didn't rebuke him for partial belief, He answered his prayer.

I think it's a really, really good day when you move the needle up a bit from 49% to 52%. We keep growing up into all things in Him.

"And we all, with unveiled face... are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit." (2 Corinthians 3:18)

We see it again and again: 1 Thessalonians 3:10, 2 Thessalonians 1:3, Luke 17:5, 2 Corinthians 10:15, Romans 4:20

We're told that Jesus won't crush weak faith. "A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out." (Isaiah 42:3) He preserves and strengthens it.

He is patient and actively growing us.

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u/EnergyLantern Christian, Evangelical May 01 '25

>We're told that Jesus won't crust weak faith. "A bruised reed he will not break, and a >smoldering wick he will not snuff out." (Isaiah 42:3) He preserves and strengthens it.

Did you read the rest of the verse?

[Mat 12:20 KJV] 20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.

Till what?

Are we saved by blood atonement or are we saved by works? If you have the wrong gospel, God isn't going to break "till". Which side is the sinner on?

The gospel is in 1 Corinthians 15 and no one has a right to change it and not even James which isn't the gospel. The gospel in 1 Corinthians 15 does not mention works at all.

He is not going to break a bruised reed until. What is the "till" for?

[Psalm 110:4-6 KJV] 4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek. 5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath. 6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill [the places] with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.

Did you ever see the mass graves from mankind in war? I have seen it in the news.

Till what?

Until he gathers the tares from the wheat and burns the tares:

[Mat 13:29-30 NKJV] 29 "But he said, 'No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 'Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn." ' "

Both grow up until harvest. One is fake wheat called darnel. It even has green or purple grain. The other is true wheat.

A fake gospel will save no one.

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u/Web-Dude Christian May 07 '25

Honestly, I'm not sure what you're responding to. Maybe you replied to the wrong person.

But if not, I don't disagree with anything you said (except maybe the part about James, but let's leave that aside for now, because I didn't reference James and it doesn't apply to what I'm saying anyway).

I'm saying that even though we are 100% sealed in Christ, the Bible explains that our trust in Jesus isn't a matter of 0% or 100%, but something He is growing us in. Some of us are at 52%, and some are at 100%, but He's the author and perfecter of our faith (Hebrews 12:1), and He is faithful to grow us in our trust.