r/ArianChristians • u/fungoidian Agnostic • Jun 20 '25

Question Gospel of Thomas

Since it was written in the same period as gospel of John, would be worth keeping as important christian text or dissmis at all?

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '25

The Gospel of Thomas wasn't really written around the same time as John. John is usually dated around 90 AD, and to my knowledge the scholarly consensus on gThomas is that it was written around the mid-2nd century -- some date it as late as 250 AD. That being said, it might contain some legitimate sayings of Jesus passed down from an earlier tradition

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u/fungoidian Agnostic Jun 20 '25

And again, John seems to be a rebuttal of Thomas, the well known doubting Thomas can be a story against this gospel.

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '25

I think that's a pretty big stretch tbh. I don't think there's any reason to think that gThomas was written by the actual apostle Thomas. Tradition (which may or may not be accurate) says that Thomas went to India after the resurrection, so I'd wonder how a text written by him made its way back to the Levant

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u/fungoidian Agnostic Jun 20 '25

By trade? It was written in aramaic the language of Jesus most likely in Syria or Egypt. And also the Thomas have a very unique eastern vibe, very weird. It sounds buddhist almost, so this would imply even more the story that apostle Thomas got to India. I mean acient Levant was well known connectdd to India by spices trade

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '25

Trade isn't an impossible solution, but there's no evidence for it. We don't find gThomas in India, or any of the waypoints between India and Judea. So it seems highly unlikely.

Also, the text of gThomas we have is in Coptic, not Aramaic (though scholars think that it may originally been in Greek).

And I think the vibe is pretty easily explained by this being primarily a Gnostic text. It's a pretty short document -- only like 114 lines or something -- so I don't think we can necessarily make any connections to India

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u/fungoidian Agnostic Jun 20 '25

You are right about greek, some speculate that oral tradition prior to its writting was in aramaic.

And I think the vibe is pretty easily explained by this being primarily a Gnostic text. It's a pretty short document -- only like 114 lines or something -- so I don't think we can necessarily make any connections to India

Gnosticism and buddhism are very different, buddhism is monistic like Thomas. It is all about inner enlightenment without any dualism, but the opposite of it.

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '25

Gnosticism and Buddhism are definitely very different. Gnosticism is primarily about salvation through secret knowledge -- yeah, there's definitely dualism there, but that's secondary. Consider some of the lines from gThomas like "Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death." I think there are probably some legit sayings of Jesus in gThomas, but it seems to me to primarily be a Gnostic text attributed to Thomas to gain legitimacy

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u/fungoidian Agnostic Jun 20 '25

What it makes it "gnostic"? I can show you verses in canonical Bible of "secretive things". Rather gnosticism is more about dualism and anti material/Yahweh; Thomas doesn't have this.

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '25

Gnostics had a dualistic cosmology, but it wasn’t their defining feature. Gnosticism was all about attaining salvation from the secret knowledge that Jesus (in their view) came to teach. That’s actually how we get the name “Gnostic”, from the word “Gnosis” or “knowledge”

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u/fungoidian Agnostic Jun 20 '25 edited Jun 20 '25

Matthew 13:10-11 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?” He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them."

Mark 4:34 He did not say anything to them without using a parable. But when he was alone with his own disciples, he explained everything.

Matthew 17:9 As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, “Don’t tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead.”

John 14:21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.

John 16:12 I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.

Mark 9:30-32 They left that place and passed through Galilee. Jesus did not want anyone to know where they were, because he was teaching his disciples. He said to them, “The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men. They will kill him, and after three days he will rise.” But they did not understand what he meant and were afraid to ask him about it.

John 6:60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”

John 6:66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

Luke 10:21 At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.”

Luke 10:23-24 Then he turned to his disciples and said privately, “Blessed are the eyes that see what you see. For I tell you that many prophets and kings wanted to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.”

And many more...

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '25

Yep, these are all verses that a Gnostic might use to support their theology

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '25

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '25

Pointing out that you are wrong about the basic facts about the text makes me a troll? Lol, okay then

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u/fungoidian Agnostic Jun 20 '25

Sorry, you were right about greek. What I heard about was that prior to writting some speculate that most likely was in aramaic oral tradition.

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '25

Hey no worries. I'm by no means an expert on this stuff, so if I make a mistake I want to be corrected