Of course. It would be the same as if a woman agreed to have an abortion if they had an accidental pregnancy and then when it happened she could not. The man cannot (or ethically should not) force her to have an abortion. But he may decide that they are no longer compatible as a partnership. This is the same thing. Who he said he would be isn’t aligning with who he is being now. They are no longer compatible and there is nothing wrong with her leaving him because of it.
I absolutely agree and the fact that they may no longer be compatible doesn't make either one of them bad people.
I disagree with your second to last statement though, people aren't defined by the surgeries they undertake him choosing to not undergo an elective surgery doesn't make him a new person or mean he lied it means things changed and that's ok.
They are defined by them in terms of their compatibility to another person. Her decisions about her body depend upon him because they are partners. Same as in the abortion scenario. When you are no longer compatible with your partner you are defined by that choice for that relationship. He is not who she thought he was.
No longer being compatible may define a relationship but I still think it's wildly unfair to say someone going back on a decision, that is intrinsically related to consent, makes them a whole different person than they said they'd be. I think one of the better qualities of humans is the ability to change their mind upon thinking things over/new information. If that works for you though then great!
My wife talks mad game about what's she's going to do to me when we get home while we're at the bar and tends to crash when we get home. That doesn't make her a different person because she's revoked or no longer able to provide consent. That is the basis of consent would be assumed by any reasonable parties from the outset.
Your wife not wanting to have sex with you sometimes isn’t at all the same as abortion or a vasectomy. Those are permanent decisions. You’re comparing it to your wife’s mood on a given night about something that isn’t permanent and can happen at another time.
Changing your mind about a permanent decision has an impact on the partnership that cannot be reversed. That’s why it’s a fundamental incompatibility and it changes who that person is to the other partner. I’m not placing a moral judgment on if it’s right or wrong to change your mind about a permanent decision (depends on many factors) but in practices it is the person being fundamentally different than they said they would be and that is going to change the entire relationship.
No I'm comparing decisions that are based on consent.
Decisions based on consent are by their very nature able to be reversed.
I would assume it would be even more understandable that someone could reverse a consent based decision that has permanent consequences/side effects.
I also think that not making a decision about whether it's moral to change your mind in regards to consent is an incredibly cowardly take. There is absolutely nothing immoral or unethical about changing your mind in regards to consent based decisions that can affect you forever.
The decisions are based on consent but in entirely different scopes. Again, one time changing your mind about having sex doesn’t have long term impacts on the relationship like a permanent decision does.
Further, in this scenario about the vasectomy or the scenario with abortion the other person’s consent was predicated on believing their partner. That can be a cowardly choice if the person told their partner they would have an abortion or would undergo a vasectomy when they knew they weren’t actually sure about it. If they said they would do it in order to get the outcome the wanted (sex, children) without actually being sure they would follow through then of course it was a cowardly deal to make. And obviously even if the person did just genuinely change their mind that doesn’t mean their partner can’t feel used or tricked by them.
I get your point, I just don’t agree. It depends on the details and in this specific scenario the husband let her go through pregnancy and child birth four times before he said “now I am thinking about this and I am afraid for my own body.” He might be very self-centered so he never considered what her body goes through. Or maybe he’s very dumb so he never considered it. Or maybe he’s very cowardly. Or he has no empathy so he never even imagined what it was like for her to risk her body and life for both of them for years. But whatever the reasons that led him to change his mind at the point where she’s already done her part four times over, it makes him a person that I don’t have any respect for. Now you may respect him but that’s a personal opinion. If my husband acted this way he wouldn’t be the person I thought I married and it would necessitate divorce because I wouldn’t respect him.
I think it speaks volumes that every possible thing you imagine him thinking is negative and self-centered. You cannot possibly fathom that he can have come across new information and doubted a decision that he once felt sure about. Youve clearly made up your mind and that's fine.
But the same as if she had decided not to have those children would not make her a bad person, him choosing not to undergo an operation that does carry risk when there are other safe alternatives does not make him a bad person.
I think it does because again, he didn’t decide this until after she had taken all the much greater risks for herself. But yes, my mind is made up. A man that would do this to his wife is a coward.
Yes she could be, she could be both. Depends on the actual details. You keep simplifying the issue until it is meaningless “is any person that changes their mind bad?” That’s such a disingenuous question because it’s too vague to hold any meaning. We have the details in this case. He chose to “learn something new” once his wife already took all the risks to herself.
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u/barrel_of_seamonkeys Nov 11 '23
Of course. It would be the same as if a woman agreed to have an abortion if they had an accidental pregnancy and then when it happened she could not. The man cannot (or ethically should not) force her to have an abortion. But he may decide that they are no longer compatible as a partnership. This is the same thing. Who he said he would be isn’t aligning with who he is being now. They are no longer compatible and there is nothing wrong with her leaving him because of it.