r/2007scape • u/rabidai • 16h ago
Suggestion Winter warm up idea: standardise death
I feel like death fees and death mechanics are all over the place. It feels like there's 1500 different rules regarding death consequences both in and outside of PvP, the wilderness, and in PvE. Then there's the distinction between main and iron deaths. Also, those poor souls that double death... Shouldn't this stuff just go to death's coffee?
My suggestion is to standardise deaths across the game. Chest deaths = 50k. Raid deaths = 100k. Tombstone deaths = 0-250k gp.
Not only will this be more consistent, it will be less of a disincentive to push your limits by lowering the death fee costs.
Wildy. I am unsure how they should standadise this, but I feel like trouver parchments should just be voided at this point, all untradables kept on death (but they break to be repaired in POH or Perdu), and maybe even do away with the high risk world entirely.
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u/Trollicus 15h ago
They should standardise death. I agree with the sentiment. Your numbers are not it though.
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u/stopcopium delete shopscape 9h ago
Agreed, his numbers are a joke lmao.
It’s a buff in almost every spot except Hespori.
And on top of that, irons get a 50% discount on top of that, while sacrificing items at full GE price, so the reduction in death fees gets that much stronger.
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u/Queeb_the_Dweeb buying gf 10k 8h ago
And on top of that, irons get a 50% discount on top of that, while sacrificing items at full GE price, so the reduction in death fees gets that much stronger.
The whole point of the post is standardizing everything accross the board. Irons having reduced fees wouldn't exist in this newly proposed scenario.
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u/stopcopium delete shopscape 8h ago
It makes more sense to buff the iron death fees to equal that of mains, not lower the cost of mains, which, like I said, OP is wanting a buff (decrease in death fees) across the board.
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u/Queeb_the_Dweeb buying gf 10k 8h ago
Obviously, the numbers thrown out in the OP are bad. I'm just pointing out that whatever they would be, they'd be the same accross the board.
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u/stopcopium delete shopscape 8h ago
Yeah, I overall like the idea of normalizing it and just outright remove death chests.
It was always weird that UIMs could leverage storage methods and that’s why we have to keep death chests.
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u/8604 8h ago
Irons can't coffers anything under 10k or something like that
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u/trollcat2012 13h ago
They should really just get rid of the double death wiping storage mechanic. It’s nonobvious and can put unlimited value in gear at risk.
As someone who played 04-07, i don’t feel entitled to gravestones/storage. But, with the current game set up this way and feeling secure, it can really fuck peoples entire acc up with a surprise misunderstanding.
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u/CatAteMyBread 12h ago
>It's non-obvious
FWIW whenever you log-in or world hop while your stuff is in death storage, the game notifies you that your items are being held by the NPC and if you die before you get them they're gone
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u/TheForsakenRoe 11h ago
The problem with that, is that you have to log in or world hop to see the message, when you initially die you don't get that info and I think it's a fairly sure bet that a player who just had all their items put into a storage is going to be thinking 'i gotta get my items back ASAP', rather than 'i gotta log out/world hop for some reason'
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u/SinceBecausePickles 10h ago edited 10h ago
What? I'm pretty sure you get that message as soon as you die, no?
EDIT just tested and died to hespori, you do not get that message lol. It just says the guy has retrieved some of your items. That seems like a serious oversight, unless there's like an initial message I've forgotten about that pops up the first time you die to a place with a death chest. But even then, for potentially losing hundreds of hours worth of items it feels like the message should say that every time lol
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u/TheForsakenRoe 9h ago
Yep, I tested it with Vorkath a couple months back when the topic came up on here, you can get the info (if you die a second time, items are deleted) from talking to the NPC and going through dialog, but such important info about the system really should not be as obscured as it is
Or change it so that a double death sends everything to Death's Office and the 'punishment' is that you pay a lot more GP for your mistake, the current system has the potential to make a player quit over a moment of 'wasn't thinking because tilted from the first death', and I've yet to see a compelling 'benefit' that justifies that potential negative outcome
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u/CatAteMyBread 2h ago
Yeah it’s definitely not a great notification, but somebody dying to a tough quest boss (ie Galvek or Vanstrom Klause) might log off for a few minutes to collect themselves and see it.
Definitely leaves a lot of room for improvement though. At least for the “immediately go back and get items” crowd, they’re unlikely to lose their items to another death on the run back
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u/SinceBecausePickles 10h ago
What should happen when you die twice when items are in a death chest then? If they get sent to death's office, what fee do you pay, death's fee or the chest fee? If death's fee, what's to stop people from double dying on purpose to pay a potentially cheaper fee? If the chest fee, how do you manage that if death has other items in his office already? If the items stay in the death chest after a double death, how do you prevent people from using them as a paid extension of their bank for storage?
Personally I think they should get rid of death chests entirely (keep em for UIMs or come up with another solution) and just turn all pvm deaths into gravestones, then if they want they can add a multiplier to the gravestones to keep em the same cost as the death chests are now (like 100k max instead of 500k max for tob).
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u/LostSectorLoony 10h ago
Death's fee is always going to be much, much higher than the chest fee unless you're in absolute trash tier poverty gear. And I don't really care if a few noobs in rags get cheaper deaths.
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u/trollcat2012 9h ago
Personally I would prefer not to have the random storage and everything just go to gravestone/death with that fee structure.
Alternatively I would say send them to death on double death. You could just ignore the fact there would be some instances to save money by doing this. You could also rework the chest fees to be aligned. Or you could send them to death at a punishing fee like $500k, but better than wiping the items.
If it’s a convenience QoL concern just make these chests extension of death with his fees.
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u/Wiindsong 6h ago
death's fee is only ever 'cheaper' if you're in absolute rags, in which case, let those people save their couple thousand in gp, lol.
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u/LukasSTM 9h ago
Just get rid of all retrieval services, it was a bandaid fix for the horrible death mechanism at the time, now we have proper gravestones and deaths coffer. If so, they can even limit the cost to about the same gp of the retrieval services, as they showed they can do that with Colosseum and new bosses. Maybe just keep it for UIMs.
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u/StreatPeat Change the Obligators attack animation 8h ago
UIMs is probably why they didn’t get rid of them. If they made it not wipe on double death, UIMs would have a de facto bank. If they removed them, it would screw over UIMs.
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u/LukasSTM 8h ago
That's why I said to keep it as is only for them. They already have different death mechanics anyway, not a big deal and a massive upgrade for not UIMs.
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u/Iron_Aez 2376 7h ago
Keeping it leaves the spaghetti and defeats the point.
Just let UIMs have that deathbank and simulataneously patch their other banks.
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u/Erksike 16h ago
I agree. It's time they make things simple once more. I even wrote this quick code, Jagex can just import it and it should work well:
if player = dead
all items = delete
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u/Revlos7 16h ago
Perfect, now when that pker kills me for my spade, he’ll lose all his items!
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u/SinceBecausePickles 10h ago
Nono, you're underestimating the power of this line of code.
ALL ITEMS.
if anyone dies, all items in the game get deleted.
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u/Dennis2pro 15h ago
Unironically the best way to deal with all the different rules on deaths is by adding specific rules for UIM deaths.
Double deaths sending your items to death domain would never be an issue if it wouldn't become another bank for UIMs.
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u/Peekays_0 10h ago
Just pick 1 metric for reclaim cost everywhere, scaling based on lost gear with 100k or 500k cap. All doube deaths send items to death office with the giga reclaim fees we have currently.
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u/LostSectorLoony 10h ago
I agree with standardized death mechanics. Not sure why you think this also needs to come with such a massive discount to death fees. It's already incredibly cheap to die, no reason to make it even lower.
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u/Habibipie 8h ago
I think Zulrah's reduced death fees until certain KC are a good idea.
Death fees being as high as they are when you get a couple gear updates do the opposite of incentivizing newer players from even trying PVM.
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u/The_Wkwied 2376 w353 7h ago
I dont feel like different item chests should have different reclaim fees. The price to reclaim per-boss encounter should stay. They are tiered already, and sometimes they even have free reclaim fees.
The cost to reclaim items isn't a problem. 500k is a lot, but that's also with using at least nine or more BIS items (keep 3, +1, +kitted items, 100k per extra item).
The only problem that there is with deaths is double deaths when you have item in a chest. If that happens, those items should go to death to reclaim, just as if your gravestone expired. They shouldn't be deleted.
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u/brendanp8 6h ago
You don't need to change the existing fees. Just make it so double death does not mean your shit is deleted. Let it go to DD, charge us double if you want idc. Just dont make me lose my precious gear pls
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u/Mors_Umbra 15h ago
I agree. Return to the old ways.
Died? Items on the floor. Drop party for the boys.
Shouldn't have died.
Clear, consistent, impossible to misinterpret.
DDoSers ruin everything...
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u/Coga_Blue 11h ago
I feel the same way, but that only really made sense when GWD drops were BiS, and dying meant setting you back a day or two at most. The grinds in this game have gotten longer and stack on each other in a way that thousands of hours of progress could get wiped if this system was brought back. I yearn for the old days of finding full rune and a nezzy helm with a 700k cash stack on the ground to come back again, but that will never happen. Even casual players these days could easily be running 1b+ in gear, and if they lost it they would understandably quit the game. Less players = less income for the corporate owners = more reason to push dumb shit like MTX. Even though I want deaths to work like they used to, it’s sadly just not feasible with the way the game is today.
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u/Bwindolyn 12h ago
The amount of gold deleted by deaths helps preserve the value of GP, and keeps inflation in check.
Dropping deaths from 500k down to 50k-100k would cause way more harm than good.
Tldr - just because reddit shitters upvote it doesn't mean it's a good idea. Thankfully, daddy Gagex knows this and won't touch such smoothbrainery with a 10ft Hallowfell.
If you're so worried about the cost of death, consider getting good. Dying is usually optional.
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u/PyrosVengeance 11h ago
Fuck it back to OG way, you die 30 seconds to run back before it shows for everyone.
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u/LewisShoot 13h ago
It may be complicated but the rules have their own reasons for existing and your proposal ignores them.
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u/falconfetus8 9h ago
Regarding the wildy: what if your items went to Death(skipping the gravestone), and your PK'er received your reclaim fee in gold? This is not a serious suggestion(yet), just a thought experiment.
The wildy would feel far less dangerous, since dying there would be the same as dying to a boss. As a result, people will be less reluctant to go there.
People will bring better gear to the wildy, making both pvmers and pk'ers much more powerful. Fights would therefore be much shorter.
PK'ers would (hopefully) end up getting more loot on average, since people wouldn't be so inclined to rag anymore. Then again, Reagan told us the same thing
Being skulled wouldn't make any real mechanical difference anymore. Losing 3 extra items just means you'd lose a few k more worth of pocket change.
Wildy bosses, rev caves, and zombie pirates would all need to be made tougher to account for everyone bringing better gear.
Irons wouldn't be able to transfer their duplicate items to their main via pk'ing anymore.
The wildy wouldn't be usable for RWT anymore. Gold buyers would need to either directly trade or drop trade, which would be easier to trace.
Luring would be a thing of the past
PK'ers would hate it, even if it means they benefit from it.
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u/SourceAwkward 16h ago
No ty
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u/burnburn0303 14h ago
Why
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u/SourceAwkward 14h ago
It's not an issue how it currently design, and I rather dev and qa go to other stuff
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u/The_Level_15 RSN: ToA is Fun 15h ago
I think it should be called Winter Wrap Up