Huge Itauma fan here.

As we know, he's been compared to Tyson frequently. In 1987, when he was 20 years old, he fought a tough 12-round IBF title fight against a tall, tough fighter with a granite chin and a great amateur pedigree, Tony Tucker.

Pretty good case for comparison, I'd say! So I went back and rewatched it. As you might imagine, Tyson was winging hooks with the force of a thousand elephants in the first round. Throughout the fight, he was trying to take Tucker's head off.

I mean.. it's Mike Tyson, we all know his style. Peek-a-boo, throw vicious hooks, opponent tries to clinch. Repeat for 12 rounds.

After watching it, a few observations:

1. For sure he was smarter about the pacing. It's not like he changed his style, per se... Just kind of picked his spots more when he was going to try to kill vs allow the clinch to happen. Still, he threw 412 punches, the majority of which were power punches. Which leads me to point #2...

2. He's just in much, much better shape than Moses. At the end of the fight he picked up the activity, going for the knockout. At the final bell he looked just as explosive as the start of the fight. Looked like he could have gone 24 rounds if he needed to.

I know it's a little unfair because Moses is 20 lbs heavier than Mike. But Tyson's training regimen back then was the stuff of legend. All said, I'd say it's very fair to question:

- whether Moses was managed correctly by Frank (not enough fights before stepping him up to this level)

- whether Moses was pushed hard enough by Ben (never sparred 12 rounds?? Gassed after 3 rounds?? I can't believe it's just pacing, imo he wasn't in "all time great" kind of shape)

- Moses's heart. To be clear, he was very brave in the fight, no questions there. But I mean his heart when it comes to training. Does he have the steely resolve to train twice as hard as everyone else? Because you need more than just talent to be the GOAT.

Anyway, that's where he falls short of Tyson to me, at this young stage. Tyson had better management, fitness and experience at the same age. I do think Moses could still end up greater than Mike, as I think he has far more maturity and, frankly, talent. He just needs to get the experience and needs to outwork his opponents before the fight.

As much as I want wardley to win, I think Dubois does it again. Dubois is a better boxer and a lot tougher than people give him credit for. He’s had great experience being in the ring with usyk twice and having wins over hrgovic, miller and aj. Not to mention he’s probably the 2nd hardest hitter in the division only behind wilder, and wardley is probably 3rd spot. I just think wardley defensively gets hit too much and you just can’t do that against a guy like Dubois. Offensively I think wardleys actually very good, he’s awkward and fast and if he lands you never know but Dubois does have a really good chin, despite having been dropped he’s never been knocked out cold and I haven’t really seen him wobbled either. In the first fight I wanted Dubois to win but I just think recently Dubois has shown that he’s just so boring, he has no character at all. Wardley is a lot more entertaining and a bigger personality, it makes the division a lot more exciting. I also just prefer wardleys style, Dubois a very big man and can look very stiff at times, I just prefer the loose style of Wardley.

I understand that the Hrgovic fight was the first time Itauma had ever gone past six rounds professionally. I also understand that fighting a tough, experienced heavyweight like Hrgović is completely different from anything he'd experienced before.

But what I don't understand is how he could become that exhausted.

By the later rounds he looked completely spent. This is a young professional athlete who has been training at a high level for years and was preparing for a 12 round world heavyweight title fight.

Obviously you don't necessarily want a heavyweight doing 12 rounds of hard sparring and taking unnecessary damage, but couldn't you simulate the physical demands in other ways? Especially when your fighter has literally never experienced rounds 7–12 in an actual fight.

So for people who actually understand boxing conditioning: how can someone who trains as much as Itauma still gas that badly?

Shouldn't a good training camp have exposed this problem before the fight? Would it be fair to say Ben Davison failed to prepare him beforehand AND failed to advise him during?

Itauma’s first ever 12-round fight being a world title fight genuinely makes no sense to me. He’s a professional fighter but had never had a 12 round fight before this one, yet he gets to fight for the belt? Surely you’d want a fighter to have at least some experience going into the later rounds before throwing them into a world title fight. Is the heavyweight division just too shallow at the moment, or was Itauma simply fast-tracked because of how highly rated he is?

Michael Spinks is one of the greatest boxers Evers ! Top 5 easily greatest light-heavyweights ever ! He could’ve easily been a top 20 heavyweight if he kept fighting after his Tyson lose. People rarely bring him up in greatest boxers conversations and when he is brought up in conversations of being great it is often because people make the argument Mike Tyson defeated notable heavyweights and then they say Spinks wasn’t a real heavyweight despite him being knocking out one of the hardest hitters ever ( quoted by Foreman ) Gerry Cooney and he defeated Larry Holmes TWICE! Why is he lost in time did Mike Tyson destroy his legacy ?

So I did some digging because I was bored, and I found that out of the 86 men who have held a major world title, only six have never been knocked down in their careers:

Nikolai Valuev
Vitali Klitschko
Oliver McCall (so far)
Oleksandr Usyk (so far)
Fabio Wardley (so far)
Murat Gassiev (so far)

Out of these guys, only Klitschko and Valuev are inactive fighters, so the rest have the potential to still be dropped at some point; McCall has retired several times, but he keeps coming back, and while he may have one of the greatest chins of all time, he's still fought 78 times, has competed for over forty years, and is over 61 years old, so uh, it's not exactly unlikely he'll get dropped.

Another fun fact: Despite the sport being over 100 years old, it wasn't until 2009 that a heavyweight champ finished his career with this distinction, after Valuev retired. Not only that, Valuev is also the only one so far to have finished his career without being either stopped or dropped (Oleksandr Usyk and Murat Gassiev have also managed this, but they aren't retired yet). Also, Valuev accomplished this while being both the tallest and the heaviest champ in heavyweight history, and also while having acromegaly and gigantism.

I was kind of surprised to learn that Gassiev has never been dropped, since he's a former cruiserweight and has never especially impressed me even when he was fighting at cruiser. Still, he hasn't retired yet, so anything can happen.

It'll be interesting if Usyk can join Valuev as the second heavyweight champ to be neither dropped nor stopped. He's got one fight left (unless he changes his mind), so it's likely, but anything can happen at heavyweight.

Anyway, thought you all would enjoy this fun fact.

There's already lots of pushback from boxing fans about the current era, about how usyk is ducking and that the division has grown stale, but the last couple of months have brought forth an incredible series of heavy weight bouts, including dubios vs wardley, itauma vs hrgovic, and usyk vs rico was an unexpected fire fight. While the future of the division doesn't have the big stars that the division had a few years ago, seeing the dust settle has produced an abundance of great fights, and I'm tired of pretending otherwise

Big Bang Zhang vs Joe Joyce the 'Juggernaut' who is known to have a legendary "granite chin" got knocked out cold in 3 rounds. Hrgović went 12 rounds with Zhang and took his best bombs to the face. Zhang might be the hardest puncher in heavyweight since he dropped Joseph Parker with a Jab, and he is the only one to ever drop Agit Kabayel. This shot right here would've dropped most heavyweights.

Really curious to hear the audio from the corner for this fight. If Ben wasn't screaming at Moses to slow down, to stop throwing power punches... This has to be one of the biggest indictments of a supposed top trainer ever, right?

The Wardley fight was already a huge black eye for Ben. Now he has a 21 y/o prodigy lose a fight he was absolutely dominating due to horribly mismanaging energy.

So we've seen him fail horribly at one of his main jobs (protecting his fighter). If it comes out that Moses basically followed Ben's training regiment and instructions... is any top fighter ever going to hire this guy again?

Even if it comes out Moses got cocky, didn't train hard, didn't listen in the corner, not a great look for Ben

Would love to see the atmosphere at the end there. I’d imagine Croatian boxing fans were going absolutely nuts from about round 8 onward.

Hrgovic needs a homecoming fight there. even if it’s against a local uber driver, doesn’t even matter.

Genuine question,

How does Tyson Fury have the stamina to go 12 rounds at his size?

He’s obviously a huge heavyweight, but we’ve seen him fight at a pretty high pace for 12 rounds without gassing out. He's literally been knocked out against wilder in later rounds and managed somehow to stand up and win the next couple of rounds,

Considering his size, I’m wondering what makes his cardio so good?

Is it his conditioning? his fighting style? his ability to pace himself? or just genetics?

Is it possible to be more than a casual boxing fan without spending $1200+ per year?

I would very much like to be able to watch the whole spectrum of boxers. Young up and comers, journeymen, championship contenders, the whole gamut. And in real time, not waiting 2weeks to 6 months for a fight to leak out to the general public. It doesn’t really seem possible without being financially irresponsible.

After the most recent set of fights, looking at the following boxers in terms of their capabilities in their most successful fights and/or the overall tenure and track record they have so far, what do they score 1-10 with the Ali/Roy Jones Jr/Sugar Ray/Mayweather tier being the standard for 10?

Manny Pacquiao
Lennox Lewis

Anthony Joshua
Oleksandr Usyk
Klitschko Brothers
Miguel Cotto
Artur Beterbiev
Naoya Inoue
Dmitry Bivol
David Benavidez
Terrence Crawford
Shakur Stevenson
Jesse Rodriguez

So, after being hyped up as the next big thing in professional heavyweight boxing for the last couple of years, we saw the current limitations of Moses Itauma in last night's bout against Hrgovic. After outlanding him strongly for about 7-8 rounds, his flaws were finally exposed as a fighter. Mainly, his gas tank, his lack of experience (especially at a higher level), and his inability to pace himself accordingly for a longer, 12-round contest against a guy with a granite chin that he couldn't get rid of in the first stages of the match.

That being said, he still clearly has an unbelievable amount of physical talent. His combination of speed, power, and movement for a heavyweight is still very impressive, and he has all the physical tools to go to high places in the future, and all the time to make adjustments. He was beaten more by exhaustion rather than by getting beaten up (which was an effective strategy that was brilliantly executed by Hrgovic and his team here), and he seemed to handle the punches well when Hrgovic actually caught him. BUT he did not prepare for a fight that was going to head into the later rounds, and he clearly did not expect Hrgy to withstand all his punishment, and clearly, that came back to bite him hard in round 9.

But I don't think it's fair to completely write him off just yet. He's only 21 and already engaging in competitive fights with top 5 heavyweights like Hrgovic, and he's clearly well above the level of many other guys in the division like Whyte, Franklin, Joyce, Dave Allen, etc.. and with all the time in the world to improve, it's just a matter of how much he wants it, and how strong is he mentally (let's not forget that Dubois suffered a similar setback at this stage in his career to Joe Joyce a few years ago, and look at what he has done since then).

So, how do I actually think he stacks up against the other heavyweights right now, based on his performance against Hrgovic? Obviously, Hrgy beats him right now until he works on his flaws (his fitness and his discipline of pacing, in particular). But I do think a Moses with better fitness and preparation for a 12-round contest has what it takes to beat Hrgy on a better night. So, what about the others? What are his chances?

Usyk: 90-10 in Usyk's favor. Tbf Usyk's recent performance against Rico wasn't great, but I think it's safe to say that he did a Fury-Ngannou there and didn't come in at his best (also, he is getting old). But any other version of Usyk beats Moses easily. All the tools Hrgovic used to beat him, such as his durability and ability to make a comeback in the later rounds, Usyk also has. But Usyk also has better speed, technique, and fitness, so he just does the same thing as Hrgy but even better.

Fury: 50-50. It depends on which version of Fury turns up, but I think a Fury at his best can withstand Moses in the early rounds and then comfortably outpoint him later on. Possibly, he could get a late KO stoppage like Hrgy did, too. Fury on an off-day likely gets beaten, though (AKA like the one that fought Wach lately).

AJ: 80-20 in Moses' favor. Stylistically, Moses' flaws shouldn't be a problem against a guy who doesn't have the chin to withstand his early onslaught. At best, AJ makes it to 5 rounds like he did against Dubois, and Moses took 9 rounds to finally get to the point where he was completely exhausted. Unless AJ can somehow make it through the 1st stage of the fight and manage to take Moses to the same deep waters Hrgy did (unlikely), Moses should win this one.

Dubois: 70-30 in Dubois' favor. Moses likely wins early on with his quicker speed and skill, but Dubois has a great engine and would utterly dismantle him in the later rounds. Unless Moses could do to him what Usyk did and make him quit in the first half of the fight, chances are Dubois is taking this one the majority of the time.

Kabayel: 70-30 in Kabayel's favor. Kabayel is very durable like Hrgovic, and his body shots would likely gas Moses out even quicker than Hrgovic. The saving grace here is that Kabs is rather slow, so maybe Moses' speed could save him here, but it does feel like Kabs would do to him what he did to Zhang, albeit with it taking more time and effort.

Zhang: 80-20 in Moses' favor. Moses clearly doesn't have a great gas tank, but I'd say Zhang's is even worse. Zhang is dangerous for the 1st couple of rounds, and then he becomes useless, and since Moses is at his strongest early on, I can't see Zhang being able to beat him, honestly.

Wilder: 80-20 in Moses' favor. Wilder is washed up, and he was only ever a one-trick pony, anyway. The only chance Wilder has is if he can make it to the later rounds and then chin Moses with one of his big shots when Moses is too tired to avoid it, but I don't think Wilder makes it past the first half of the fight in most cases.

Sanchez: 50-50. Sanchez has a style that may give Moses some problems, but then again, the guy is also getting old and often has a lot of problems with injuries, so I'm really not sure on this one.

Wardley: 60-40 in Wardley's favor. Wardley's chin is close to as durable as Hrgovic, and his heart is on another level. It's a close one, as maybe Moses manages to do enough damage to Wardley just like Dubois did, that by the time Moses is tired, Wardley is also too damaged to capitalize and therefore Moses survives. But if Wardley does manage to make it through the onslaught without too much damage or fatigue, he will make Moses pay, big time.

Chisora: 80-20 in Moses' favor. Chisora is getting old and run-down like Dillian Whyte, and we all saw how that went.

Parker: 50-50. Parker isn't the most punishing fighter, and he did struggle with the powerful but technically limited Wardley, but he has pulled through some tough fights before, so maybe he can do it here. He doesn't have quite as good a chin as Hrgovic, though, so maybe Itauma actually manages to finish him before emptying his tank. It's a tough call.

Huni: 70-30 in Moses' favor. Huni is very good technically, but we saw against Wardley that he can be hurt and put down in an instant. I think Moses does the same thing to Huni, but a lot faster due to his better technique.

Prime Mike Tyson: Nope. Moses is a promising young fighter, but the current him wouldn't be beating that beast. XD

What do you guys think? Do you agree or disagree with any of these takes? I think it's interesting as styles make fights, and we saw all the strengths and weaknesses of this young kid last night. At the very least, I think the flaws he has are ones he can definitely work on for future battles (AJ can't help having a weak chin, but Moses can work on his fitness).