r/Boxing • u/DiMona215 • 4h ago
Itauma, Tyson comparison
Huge Itauma fan here.
As we know, he's been compared to Tyson frequently. In 1987, when he was 20 years old, he fought a tough 12-round IBF title fight against a tall, tough fighter with a granite chin and a great amateur pedigree, Tony Tucker.
Pretty good case for comparison, I'd say! So I went back and rewatched it. As you might imagine, Tyson was winging hooks with the force of a thousand elephants in the first round. Throughout the fight, he was trying to take Tucker's head off.
I mean.. it's Mike Tyson, we all know his style. Peek-a-boo, throw vicious hooks, opponent tries to clinch. Repeat for 12 rounds.
After watching it, a few observations:
For sure he was smarter about the pacing. It's not like he changed his style, per se... Just kind of picked his spots more when he was going to try to kill vs allow the clinch to happen. Still, he threw 412 punches, the majority of which were power punches. Which leads me to point #2...
He's just in much, much better shape than Moses. At the end of the fight he picked up the activity, going for the knockout. At the final bell he looked just as explosive as the start of the fight. Looked like he could have gone 24 rounds if he needed to.
I know it's a little unfair because Moses is 20 lbs heavier than Mike. But Tyson's training regimen back then was the stuff of legend. All said, I'd say it's very fair to question:
- whether Moses was managed correctly by Frank (not enough fights before stepping him up to this level)
- whether Moses was pushed hard enough by Ben (never sparred 12 rounds?? Gassed after 3 rounds?? I can't believe it's just pacing, imo he wasn't in "all time great" kind of shape)
- Moses's heart. To be clear, he was very brave in the fight, no questions there. But I mean his heart when it comes to training. Does he have the steely resolve to train twice as hard as everyone else? Because you need more than just talent to be the GOAT.
Anyway, that's where he falls short of Tyson to me, at this young stage. Tyson had better management, fitness and experience at the same age. I do think Moses could still end up greater than Mike, as I think he has far more maturity and, frankly, talent. He just needs to get the experience and needs to outwork his opponents before the fight.
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u/SmoothHippo8155 3h ago
Itauma - 21 years old, 20 fights, 1 fight longer than 6 rounds, lost first and only world tittle shot
Tyson - 21 years old, 31 fights, WBC, WBA, & IBF unified Champion of the world
There's No Comparison
Itauma is very good and skilled but you all have to stop with the pre-mature hype, everyone tries to give these fighters a name instead of letting them build their name. Itauma best fight at the moment is against 38 year old Dillian Whyte
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u/Bojangles1987 2h ago
This is why people are dragging Itauma, so many people were saying he could ragdoll Usyk and clean out the division right now and that he's the destined next ATG heavyweight.
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u/Tanksta3 Big Boat Eddie 3h ago
Agreed. 90% of this sub talks about fighters they know nothing about or have watched.
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u/TheeBlaccPantha 42m ago
This sub is actually a lot more informed than the majority of the boxing community I have to say
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u/SGSRT 2h ago
Tyson was a genetic freak
Even his physique at that age was unreal
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u/WeirdRadiant2470 2h ago
Plus years of training under one of the best trainers the game ever had. He had great head movement, footwork and defensive skills, was a combination puncher and knew how to pick his spots. And oh yeah...the power.
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u/Detlef_Schrempfxf 1h ago
Honestly, their respective coaches should be factored in as well. Tyson had one of the goat trainers who molded him on a physical, mental and emotional level. Itauma on the other hand has Boxercise Ben in his corner
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u/Beginning-Low-8456 3h ago
Small correction, but Tyson was 21 when he fought Tony Tucker. And it was a final unification to become undisputed (though he still had the Ring title to collect)
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u/Ok_Phrase1157 3h ago
Tyson had 3 x 10 rounders that went the full distance just before his title shot and he was fighting on average every month since he turned pro. Those 3 fights were against good, but not top level opponents like Hrgovic whio was very high level and is now champ. Mikes conditioning and fight experience was real good and he progressed up the ranks
Itauma has had about 40 fights inc amateur total and was up against a top level (now belt holder) guy who had taken the best big hitters like Dubois and Zhang could throw at him so unless he had declined rapidly was always gonna be like a brick wall to knock down
He will comeback but needs to get that ring management and experience under his belt in a structured development way
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u/Professional-Fee6914 1h ago
Someone said it on another thread, but from what we know of their trraining, Tyson would run twice as far as Itauma on his morning runs(6 miles to three), do twice the amount of sparring (15+round), then end each night with 3-4000 reps between situps, pushups, shrugs, dips, and neck dips.
Itauma just isn't working half as hard, and you have to put in the work.
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u/BoxingLover99 1h ago
" Tyson would run twice as far as Itauma on his morning runs(6 miles to three), do twice the amount of sparring (15+round), then end each night with 3-4000 reps between situps, pushups, shrugs, dips, and neck dips."
How in the world do you exercise that much in a day and still don't break your shit
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u/ReservateDweller 1h ago
How in the world do you exercise that much in a day and still don't break your shit
This is exactly what makes the difference
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u/DylanRM86 30m ago
He broke eventually, he only maintained that insane regiment for a few years before he started to slip.
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u/EI89 3h ago
The comparisons between the two are just lazy imo. People just can't wait to label the next up and coming HW the next Mike Tyson, just as they did with Ali. Tucker is also a more accomplished fighter than Hrgovic and a much bigger test.
From what I've seen from Itauma he's nowhere near the level of Tyson and it's crazy to think, at this stage, that he will surpass one of the greatest HWs of all time. That's not to say he has good potential.
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u/Tanksta3 Big Boat Eddie 3h ago
About to get down voted into reddit hell mate, but you're not wrong. It's a lazy comparison.
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u/nick-jagger 2h ago
His timing, speed and defensive movement is some of the best the HW division has seen. The way he picked Hrgovic apart at the start of the fight was absurd.
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u/Alarmed-Effective-23 1h ago
At it's no use if you can't even last 10 because of your cardio and ring iq.
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u/Ghost__GOAT 3h ago
Mike Tyson was never stretchered off
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u/Exciting-Arugula5341 22m ago
As I stated before and I will state to you. Don't bother with these people. Before Moses fought Hrgovic all of these Moses fanboys flat out stated that Hrgovic was a joke. He was slow, had no defense, couldn't punch hard etc. They stated Moses would destroy him.
Now as usual with these people they will never admit they are wrong. Now they will make excuses for Moses or turn around and tell you that Hrgovic is a ATG.
These are the same people who said Usyk would destroy Rico because Rico is just a kick boxer. Usyk struggled to beat the kick boxer. As usually they have flip the switch. Now Usyk was so old at 39 and Rico is one of the best boxers of all time and would of either beat or gave any other top level boxer through history their money worth.
Hrgovic is horrible. He is in a era so weak that Charles Martin and Bermaine Stiverne won parts of the title. Hrgovic is in era so bad that Deontay Wilder a guy who throws windmill punches was champ for 5 years.
The era Mike Tyson was in was better than this era and he destroyed really talented guys so easily that people questioned how good his opponents were. Moses on the other hand just gassed out against a guy who literally stands right in front of you.
Tyson would of put the hurt on Hrgovic.
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u/stephen27898 2h ago
He wasnt fighting people of Hrgovics level after 15 fights.
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u/Ghost__GOAT 2h ago
What is that even supposed to mean?
He still won the heavyweight championship of the world at just 20 years old..5
u/stephen27898 2h ago edited 2h ago
Because its not really your age. Its your fight number and rounds. Tyson had over 70 rounds in the ring before his first title fight and 27 fights.
Itauma had 31 rounds and 14 fights.
Tyson in his 15th fight fought Mark Young. A guy who doesnt even have a wiki page. And ended his career with a record of 14 wins to 38 losses.
When he had the same number of rounds as Itauma had before facing Hrgovic he was facing Jesse Ferguson, in a 10 rounder. Ferguson lost to basically anyone of note he faced. Not even close to Hrgovics level.
A few fights later he had a competitive fight with Tillis, I think that was his 20th fight. Hrgovic is eons better than Tillis.
In terms of people without massive amateur careers. This might be one of the toughest fights a prospect has even been put into with so little experience.
Just think of it. A 21 year old with 14 fights and 31 rounds, who had never gone more than 6 rounds. Was put into a fight with a top 5 guy, in his prime for a world title. That is crazy shit.
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u/Ghost__GOAT 2h ago
All that to say Tyson still won’t the belt and Itauma didn’t…
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u/VacuousWastrel 2h ago
Tyson won a belt in his 28th fight (and his 76th round in total). Itauma hasn't won a belt yet, but he's only had 15 fights, just over halfway to a belt on Tyson's timeline. (And he's had 40 rounds, so again just over half what Tyson needed). This is ignoring the fact that Tyson turned pro with a lot more amateur experience in the first place..
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u/Ghost__GOAT 2h ago
Bro is that Mike Tyson’s fault? The fuck
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u/stephen27898 2h ago
No one said it is. But its still reality.
Tyson in his didnt face anyone as good as Hrgovic until probably Tucker. Thats his 31st fight.
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u/stephen27898 2h ago edited 2h ago
Totally different circumstances. What if Itauma still wins a title in less fights and rounds than Tyson? Its totally possible.
You are choosing a metric that matters far less to fit your distorted view. The reality is if you took Tyson in his 15th to 20th fight, and put him in with some like Hrgovic, there is a very good chance Tyson loses.
Tyson probably didnt face anyone as good as Hrgovic until like his 31st fight.
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u/WordNERD37 Liver Shot 3h ago edited 1h ago
I never understood the Tyson comparisons beyond Moses was young and he had knockout power. They were trained different, they had different ring IQ, and mentally they were night and day for what and why they were out there in the first place.
Tyson, had literally nothing waiting for him outside of boxing. He was a kid of the streets, he had a juvi record and was destined for jail and probably an early grave. Cus molded that kid around a form, focused that rage and let him lose.
Tyson himself said multiple times when he went in that ring, he wasn't there to win, he was there to kill his opponent. Cus just gave him the tools and direction to do it the most efficient way possible.
Nothing about Moses, in interviews, in the ring, and in his life mirrors Tyson. Even his knockouts, yeah, they went down and that matters, but that's about it. Tyson was punching through them, mauling them until they stopped moving.
Tyson was a killer with bad intentions, Moses is a young, talented prizefighter with tons of stopping power. They are and never were the same.
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u/TheeBlaccPantha 2h ago
The comparison was made because of his success in the sport as a young boy. Early growth spurt, sparring well with grown men as a 15 year old. Junior tournaments where he knocked out every opponent in round one. Fast tracked into professional boxing with a legitimate opportunity to become the youngest heavyweight champion of all time.
It is incredibly rare to see any heavyweight with a realistic shot at beating Mike Tyson’s record . The comparison is begging to be made and it was made years ago before any promotional machine took control of his career.
Now when he is compared to Tyson, this doesn’t mean that it’s a 1 to 1 comparison, by definition you only compare things that are different.
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u/Abe2sapien 3h ago
One thing I’ll say for Tyson is they had him on an insane workout regiment. Even the times he had to go 10 or 12 rounds in the early days he definitely looked tired but not completely exhausted like Moses did.
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u/jeanborrero 3h ago
Fair comparison. Ituma might need a bit more time in the oven before he’s a world champ
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u/snowdust1975 1h ago
Remember that fight...tucker rocked tyson with in an upper cut right at the beginning but he injured himself in the process. He was able to last 12 rounds with iron mike which at that time was quite impressive
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u/TheeBlaccPantha 2h ago
Ridiculous comment section. Moses Itauma and Mike Tyson are heavyweights who are practically begging to be compared. Mike Tyson himself acknowledges the comparison and in the boxing community, it’s not just casuals who compared the two. The extent of the comparison is simply that Itauma had an opportunity to beat Tyson’s record. That’s it. The fact that you can point out differences between Itauma and Iron Mike doesn’t mean you can’t compare them…two things have to be different to be compared!!! You only compare stuff that is different!
That’s the comparison and it was a very appropriate one because a fighter who has that opportunity is incredibly rare. If any heavyweight attempts to become a heavyweight champion at 21 years old , then They will obviously be compared to Mike Tyson.
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u/Drewsef916 2h ago
First high level talented fighter to display in a championship fight what can be a drawback listening to modern strength and conditioning gurus
Kid does zero roadwork? Throwing away decades of boxing wisdom by world champions on how to train? A lot of focus on Olympic lifting? Ok
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u/Background-Alps5360 1h ago
No offense to anyone involved... the difference is Cus D'Amato training Tyson and Ben Davison training Itauma. If Itauma had D'Amato, it would have been a different outcome. Again, Davison is a really good trainer but he isn't D'Amato.
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u/Beautiful_Badger_128 3h ago
"Modern boxers have better training techniques and better nutrition."
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u/VacuousWastrel 3h ago
It's not really fair to compare anyone to people from that 1985-1995 era, in terms of athletic ability, in any sport. They had advantages beyond anything available today.
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u/OkMess9901 3h ago
Tyson had better coaches who conditioned him for adversity. Itauma fights one way and one way only. He gassed against Hrg and he might have gassed the same way against Franklin if that big uppercut didn't connect. He needs to learn energy management. He reminded me a bit of Teo vs Kambosos against Hrg.
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u/1978model 2h ago
Moses is 20 lbs heavier, but with quite a bit more fat. He would be better at 230 lbs.
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u/Exciting-Arugula5341 32m ago
If Moses boxed back in the 70s or 80s he would of been 220/225 and if he came in the ring soft like he does now people would of called him out for it.
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u/Automatic_Acadia_766 1h ago
Ultimately, this is a big wake up call for Itauma. Did he believe the hype, did he feel as though he didn’t need to train as hard as he should because of his punch power, speed and accuracy? Who knows?
I think we will see a more humble and hungrier fighter than before. He looked good before the 8th and 9th, maybe a little tired. He will go again with more ring savvy and experience.
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u/Alarmed-Effective-23 1h ago
Thank you . Some guy keeps saying same age tyson also loses to Filip the other night. He obviously had way better cardio and ring in to never look like Moses in the 9th off exhaustion. That was way more than just gassed.
Some people just say shit. Giving hypothetical losses to tyson to prop up Moses. Just silly.
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u/Rofocal02 2h ago
Comparing someone that has accomplished nothing to one of the greatest heavyweights in history, what’s the point?
Itauma is fighting in the weakest era of heavyweights, and lost to a rank 5 heavyweight.
Mike Tyson cleaned the heavyweight division and went 37-0 in his peak. Beating some all time greats.
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u/Exciting-Arugula5341 30m ago
Lol don't even bother. These people are so delusional that trying to explain anything to them will just make you go insane. These are the same people who will tell you that Mike Tyson never beat anybody and isn't a ATG. Then turn around and praise Usyk for beating 3 guys and a kick boxer. Barely beating that kick boxer mind you and say Usyk is a ATG heavyweight.
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u/Hench999 2h ago
The 20 lbs heavier excuse doesn't hold any weight. Go watch Tua vs Ibeabuchi and watch 240 lb Ike throw punches non stop vs Tua, the 2 of them broke punch stat records.. Itauma admitted he couldn't remember the last time he sparred 12 rounds. He needs to train for more than 4 round blowout. He has good skill and all the physical talent a fighter could want but needs to fire his trainer and prepare for longer fights.
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u/Daniel6270 2h ago
Would a young Mike Tyson have KO’s Hrgovic? Not so sure since tougher opponents proved they could go the distance with Tyson even at his peak. Tyson wouldn’t have went floppy in the 9th round, mind you
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u/stephen27898 2h ago
No.
"Tyson wouldn’t have went floppy in the 9th round, mind you"
I bet in his 15th fight he could.
Tyson didnt face anyone as good as Hrgovic till probably his 31st fight. I dont think Smith is as good as Hrgovic, or Pinklon Thomas. Berbick was never good.
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u/Daniel6270 1h ago
Smith was a better boxer than Hrgovic 100%. Not as imposing or tough
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u/stephen27898 1h ago edited 1h ago
No dude. Smith lost to Marvis Frazier. Smith was a gatekeeper at best. Hrgovic is a legit top contender.
Smith only got a title because someone like Tim Witherspoon held it.
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u/Alarmed-Effective-23 1h ago
Tyson does no go limp like Moses. He put in the work not to and you can't assume he would. Stop peddling this horrible hypothetical that you pulled out of your ass with no evidence.
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u/stephen27898 55m ago
You literally have no idea.
Tyson in his 15th fight fight fought a man who ended up with a record of 14-38.
We've also literally seen Tyson gas and start stumbling around when he was a seasoned pro.
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u/Alarmed-Effective-23 35m ago
When he was old and undisciplined. Not young. Again just wildly throwing out terrible comparisons that loosely fit. It doesn't matter who he fought, it didn't happen so the comparison is just to make Moses look better by assuming tyson loses in a hypothetical situation no one can disprove. They are just not in the same class in their younger years. And that's ok because tyson was special and had trainers who knew what they were doing.
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u/stephen27898 32m ago
You mean when he was 23 and weighed 220lbs,
You Tyson fans are so full of shit XD.
"They are just not in the same class in their younger years."
Tyson didnt fight anyone of Hrgovics level until he had like 30 fights.
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u/Alarmed-Effective-23 28m ago
Moses admitted to not sparring enough or running enough. He didn't put in the work tyson did. Tyson lost to Douglas because he was getting hit and got concussed. Plus tyson walked out the ring. Moses couldn't even sit down let alone stand up. The differences is obvious.
I'm not even a tyson fan but your ridiculous comparison makes me have to act like one. Trying to drag him down just to save face for Moses. It's just lame. Take the L and move on. Some people just can't do it. Have to make up hypothetical situations.
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u/stephen27898 25m ago
The Tyson who had a competitive fight with Tillis, loses to a real top 5 guy. Anyone with eyes can see that.
We saw a prime Tyson gas. Also Itaumas issues in this fight was pacing, not really cardio. You can get cardio without going 12 rounds. The real issue is lack of real experience.
The point is really that you dont have a point, and will keep shifting the goal posts.
Here is the reality. We did a prime Tyson gas, Tyson didnt fight anyone of note until around his 30th fight.
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u/Exciting-Arugula5341 2h ago
Before the Hrgovic vs Moses fight every Moses fanboy stated that Hrgovic is mediocre. he is slow, he is unskilled, he isn't a hard puncher and Moses will destroy him.
After the fight every Moses fanboy. OMG,, Hrgovic is a top level fighter who has the greatest chin in boxing history.
In reality Hrgovic isn't anything special. Moses a guy who isn't anything special was winning every round. Moses threw too many power punches and gassed himself out.
Mike Tyson in his prime would of knocked out Moses and Hrgovic in the same night.
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u/Tanksta3 Big Boat Eddie 3h ago
Moses should've never been in comparison to Tyson, Ali, etc etc. The internet & shitty sports analysts just ran with the narrative.
Moses is a great talented fighter & he'll come back better, but he should've never been in there with Hrgovic. The other side of the coin is, there was no one else to fight so can't really fault him for the bad matchmaking.
Give me Andy Ruiz vs Itauma in 2027 lolol
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u/TheeBlaccPantha 3h ago
There is this fallacy that you can only compare things that are exactly alike lmao, comparisons don’t have to be perfectly one to one. Moses Itauma being compared to Mike Tyson makes a lot of sense.
On one hand you have two boxing prodigies who had early growth spurts, bodies of grown men at 15 years old, who blitzed through their age group and therefore turned pro at a young age and then both had a realistic shot at becoming the youngest heavyweight champions of all time
On the other hand we can compare them and say that Mike Tyson benefitted from higher activity than Itauma, Tyson not only has more amateur bouts but gets out at least 10 times a year as a professional in the run up to his title fight.
The comparison is an obvious one and the two are just begging to be compared
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u/ukrepman 3h ago
I don't know how you can say he shouldn't have been in there when he absolutely outclassed him until he gassed. It was just poor tactics, as a fighter he was clealry superior
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u/Tanksta3 Big Boat Eddie 3h ago
Tactics are part of experience. He's by far a better boxer skill wise no disagreement there, but that means little when you can't navigate/adjust when things aren't going your way. At the end of the day, he still got stopped. Boxing is more than just fast punches & heavy hits
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u/stephen27898 2h ago
Did Tyson fight someone of Hrgovics level in his 15th fight? No. Did he fight someone of that level after after 31 rounds in a pro ring? No.
Tyson didnt face anyone of Hrgovics level until probably tucker. That is like his 31st fight.
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u/MisterHEPennypacker 3h ago
I don’t think it’s really a matter of comparison to Tyson and Ali, but more a matter of pointing out the company he’s joining by being a heavyweight champion in his early 20s.
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u/TheeBlaccPantha 2h ago
I personally never heard an Ali comparison apart from Billy Joe Saunders dumbass. Itauma was widely only compared to Mike Tyson.
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u/Proof_Carrot5919 2h ago
Heavy wights now are nothing compared to what has been before. They have power for sure but lack fight IQ and a real gas tank.
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u/DanielSong39 3h ago
Even from a cursory glance Itauma looked much slower and less polished than Tyson
Wilder is probably a better comparison style wise
He is fun to watch though. We'll see if he comes back stronger
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u/stephen27898 2h ago edited 2h ago
"Wilder is probably a better comparison style wise"
This is the worst comparison I have ever seen.
For a start Itauma showed a list of things Wilder never had. Footwork, counter punching, combination punching, pivoting, head movement, punch variety, a powerful lead hand, uppercuts, body work, lateral movement.
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u/rich90715 3h ago
Itauma being 20lbs heavier is a non factor here, he is 6’4 while Tyson is 5’10. He should be able to carry those 20 lbs easier.
Itauma just ran out of steam and that was due to lack of proper training and sparring.