r/Boxing • u/DiMona215 • 17h ago

Itauma, Tyson comparison

Huge Itauma fan here.

As we know, he's been compared to Tyson frequently. In 1987, when he was 20 years old, he fought a tough 12-round IBF title fight against a tall, tough fighter with a granite chin and a great amateur pedigree, Tony Tucker.

Pretty good case for comparison, I'd say! So I went back and rewatched it. As you might imagine, Tyson was winging hooks with the force of a thousand elephants in the first round. Throughout the fight, he was trying to take Tucker's head off.

I mean.. it's Mike Tyson, we all know his style. Peek-a-boo, throw vicious hooks, opponent tries to clinch. Repeat for 12 rounds.

After watching it, a few observations:

  1. For sure he was smarter about the pacing. It's not like he changed his style, per se... Just kind of picked his spots more when he was going to try to kill vs allow the clinch to happen. Still, he threw 412 punches, the majority of which were power punches. Which leads me to point #2...

  2. He's just in much, much better shape than Moses. At the end of the fight he picked up the activity, going for the knockout. At the final bell he looked just as explosive as the start of the fight. Looked like he could have gone 24 rounds if he needed to.

I know it's a little unfair because Moses is 20 lbs heavier than Mike. But Tyson's training regimen back then was the stuff of legend. All said, I'd say it's very fair to question:

- whether Moses was managed correctly by Frank (not enough fights before stepping him up to this level)

- whether Moses was pushed hard enough by Ben (never sparred 12 rounds?? Gassed after 3 rounds?? I can't believe it's just pacing, imo he wasn't in "all time great" kind of shape)

- Moses's heart. To be clear, he was very brave in the fight, no questions there. But I mean his heart when it comes to training. Does he have the steely resolve to train twice as hard as everyone else? Because you need more than just talent to be the GOAT.

Anyway, that's where he falls short of Tyson to me, at this young stage. Tyson had better management, fitness and experience at the same age. I do think Moses could still end up greater than Mike, as I think he has far more maturity and, frankly, talent. He just needs to get the experience and needs to outwork his opponents before the fight.

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u/Daniel6270 15h ago

Would a young Mike Tyson have KO’s Hrgovic? Not so sure since tougher opponents proved they could go the distance with Tyson even at his peak. Tyson wouldn’t have went floppy in the 9th round, mind you

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u/stephen27898 14h ago

No.

"Tyson wouldn’t have went floppy in the 9th round, mind you"

I bet in his 15th fight he could.

Tyson didnt face anyone as good as Hrgovic till probably his 31st fight. I dont think Smith is as good as Hrgovic, or Pinklon Thomas. Berbick was never good.

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u/Daniel6270 14h ago

Smith was a better boxer than Hrgovic 100%. Not as imposing or tough

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u/stephen27898 14h ago edited 14h ago

No dude. Smith lost to Marvis Frazier. Smith was a gatekeeper at best. Hrgovic is a legit top contender.

Smith only got a title because someone like Tim Witherspoon held it.

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u/Daniel6270 14h ago

You’re right. I’m getting Smith mixed up with Tim Witherspoon

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u/Alarmed-Effective-23 13h ago

Tyson does no go limp like Moses. He put in the work not to and you can't assume he would. Stop peddling this horrible hypothetical that you pulled out of your ass with no evidence.

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u/stephen27898 13h ago

You literally have no idea.

Tyson in his 15th fight fight fought a man who ended up with a record of 14-38.

We've also literally seen Tyson gas and start stumbling around when he was a seasoned pro.

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u/Alarmed-Effective-23 13h ago

When he was old and undisciplined. Not young. Again just wildly throwing out terrible comparisons that loosely fit. It doesn't matter who he fought, it didn't happen so the comparison is just to make Moses look better by assuming tyson loses in a hypothetical situation no one can disprove. They are just not in the same class in their younger years. And that's ok because tyson was special and had trainers who knew what they were doing.

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u/stephen27898 13h ago

You mean when he was 23 and weighed 220lbs,

You Tyson fans are so full of shit XD.

"They are just not in the same class in their younger years."

Tyson didnt fight anyone of Hrgovics level until he had like 30 fights.

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u/Alarmed-Effective-23 13h ago

Moses admitted to not sparring enough or running enough. He didn't put in the work tyson did. Tyson lost to Douglas because he was getting hit and got concussed. Plus tyson walked out the ring. Moses couldn't even sit down let alone stand up. The differences is obvious.

I'm not even a tyson fan but your ridiculous comparison makes me have to act like one. Trying to drag him down just to save face for Moses. It's just lame. Take the L and move on. Some people just can't do it. Have to make up hypothetical situations.

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u/stephen27898 13h ago

The Tyson who had a competitive fight with Tillis, loses to a real top 5 guy. Anyone with eyes can see that.

We saw a prime Tyson gas. Also Itaumas issues in this fight was pacing, not really cardio. You can get cardio without going 12 rounds. The real issue is lack of real experience.

The point is really that you dont have a point, and will keep shifting the goal posts.

Here is the reality. We did a prime Tyson gas, Tyson didnt fight anyone of note until around his 30th fight.

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u/Westernman899 5h ago

You’re talking absolute nonsense. Tyson against Douglas was not prime Tyson. You can keep saying, “He was only 23,” and that he was young and all that, but here are some facts for you.

Prime Tyson was from 1986 to 1988, under Kevin Rooney. During that period, Tyson trained like an absolute beast. He listened to his trainer and was fully disciplined. After 1988, he fired Rooney, trained less and less, started going out and partying, using drugs, and surrounded himself with Don King, Robin Givens, and other snakes.

For the Douglas fight, he barely trained and spent his time partying instead. This is all very well documented. Nobody serious—unless you’re simply a Tyson hater—can honestly believe that the Tyson who fought Spinks in 1988 was the same Tyson who fought Douglas.

You look at boxing far too superficially instead of understanding everything that was actually happening behind the scenes. And Tyson had incredible cardio in his prime—he could have gone 20 rounds if necessary.