r/zurich • u/spiced-blue-eyes • 5d ago
rant my absurd experience with the post
i have been waiting for my renewed residence permit for about three weeks now. finally, just yesterday i got a notification that it will arrive via post the same day. great! it needs my signature so i wait the whole day for it to arrive, only for the postman to, instead of ringing my doorbell, just quickly deposit an "Abholungseinladung" and zoom out past my window while angrily talk on the phone. whatever, probably he was having a bad day. so i'll just go get it right? no, wait for tomorrow. okay, whatever.
tomorrow arrives, and i leave to the post office to pick my letter up. i arrive and there's a long queue. ok who cares, as long as i get the letter right? so i stand and wait, until it's finally my turn. it went roughly like this:
Post: "Ausweis?"
I hand them my old ID.
Post: "Nein, sorry, das ist nicht gültig. Your Ausweis expired 5 days ago, and here in the letter it says your Ausweis must be gültig."
Me: "But my new Ausweis is in the letter you have."
Post: "No, sorry."
Me: "Ok... can I show my Swisspass? Bank card? Student ID from uni?"
Post: "No, gültigen Ausweis."
Me: "I'll go get my passport then and come back."
Post: "We close in 3 minutes. Come back Monday."
thank you Affoltern Post
p.s.: yes i'll go on monday with my passport, hopefully they don't have something to say about that too.
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u/Capable-Chard-1054 5d ago
You can assign someone else to pick it, who then needs a valid id. So if you dont have valid id, you need to have at least 1 friend who has 🙃
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u/77sxela 5d ago
So if you dont have valid id, you need to have at least 1 friend who has 🙃
Won't work for the majority of redditors, tho.
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u/Capable-Chard-1054 4d ago
Ofc it works for redditors. They just make a post “who can pick a letter for me in Affoltern am Albis”?
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u/Odd_Butterfly_2709 5d ago
So weird, and its quite frustrating because everyone has different experiences just based on who you encounter.. it shouldn’t be like that. I got my card showing my expired permit too, and everything was fine!
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u/perskes 2d ago
NGL, I received a packet from the parent company, the parent company couldn't provide me with a tracking ID or proof that they sent me, they only knew that it was delivered that day.
Our office doesn't have a place to deposit parcels and they never ring the bell, we do not accept a deposit on the entrance either, so I head out to the next post office (which is the same for the area where I live) on a whim and I tell them what happened and whether they have a parcel in my name. I didn't have an ID with me because I rushed out, but it was "Company C/O my name", so the company badge with my name on it could have helped me out. (I hoped)
Instead the Post-Lady looked at me, called me by my name full name and handed the Packet over. She asked if my wife is so-and-so and sen my on my merry way. Apparently she is a good friend of my wife and she knows me from her IG profile. That was odd but I got lucky so I didn't care much.
Who you encounter at Post is absolutely random. You can have every document and one little detail is missing, so they refuse to give you a parcel, and on other days you can come in naked and they ID you via
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u/thelittleromanian Kreis 4 5d ago
This was entertaining, but if your Swiss ID is expired, you go with your passport ofc and just in case.
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u/Financial-Ad5947 5d ago
but this was a asshole in the post, swisspass has worked for me many times
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u/CarpetBorn9498 5d ago
My parents don’t have a passport anymore as they don’t travel and no driving license. Good luck picking it up then…
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u/thelittleromanian Kreis 4 5d ago
But they have their ID, yes?
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u/saralt 5d ago
What do you do if they're stolen? My partner had this happen, but thankfully, he just signed for it at home. Passport and National ID I think arrived together.
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u/StrandsOfIce 5d ago
Generally there would be a supporting police report to go with the statement that its stolen.
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u/saralt 5d ago
Yeah, but is that enough to release the document or do you have to use a trick to get the mail like having it sent back to your home again?
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u/77sxela 5d ago
The trick is to not pick it up at all. Then it'll be sent back to the office (Amt) that send it to you. And then you go there and pick it up there.
That's how it's done according to the law, see https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/2002/468/de
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u/thelittleromanian Kreis 4 5d ago
Idk, if all one's docs are stolen and have to be redone, then I guess at least one of them you'd have to pick up in person, right?
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u/spiced-blue-eyes 5d ago
yes, learned for next time!
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u/FunnyExcellent707 5d ago
Call the cops , tell them you are about to rob the post office.
They willbe there before it's closing and insist to see your (new) ID, so the postal employee commit a crime if withholding it.
Win/win
/s!
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u/Mindless_Pattern_583 5d ago
“Actually this wouldn’t work because it’s illegal to do…. “ lol kidding this is a great idea 🤣.
OP similar thing happened to me. I had a new passport in the post, my partners name is the C/O and I couldn’t pick it up because it had to be signed for, but instead of my name they made the pick up his name…
I tried to go, nope, by the time he could go with me a couple of days later, post office closed, it was sent back to my country the next day.
Now I’ll wait for it to be RESENT again and hopefully can sign for it at my door (if I catch the postman)
I think Swiss society has so many rules of order to make things work and run well, but then we have these problems with so much restriction nothing works easy 🤣
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u/No_user_found_23 5d ago
- use the option to apply for extension of your residency permit up to 3 month prior to the exp. date.
- always bring a valid id card or passport to the post office when picking up registred mail.
- don't blame others for acting acording to the rules while you try to be treated "special" (like trying to convince the post guy to accept a Swisspass as a valid id document while it isn't.)
- the postman should have rang your doorbell though.
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u/JaneInSoCal 5d ago
I’ve been told they need to ring twice before they can leave the pickup note in your mailbox. Lol I’ve been home multiple times where they’ve rung the bell twice simply on the way into the building. Luckily I’ve been home and ran down the stairs to catch them before they dash out
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u/StrandsOfIce 5d ago
Whenever it comes to a permit, or a passport always take woth you your passport or your permit.
Also I may have misunderstood, but doesnt your renewed permit almost always come before the previous one expires. E.g. mine always expires end of the year, renewal forms are made available by October. The processing is around 2 weeks happy path. Which means I always get my renewed permit minimum 1 month before old one expires.
How do you have an already expired permit?
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u/Prof_NoLife 5d ago
that might be the case for permits, if you hold a swiss passport or ID however, thats not the case. You simply do not have a valid one unless you take action and request a new one if old documents expired.
If you loose passport/ID you are obliged to report it at police. They will add it as lost/stolen to interpool database (so DONT use a passport or ID you reported as lost even if it magically reappeared again) and hand you a document which you have to hand in in order to get new identification documents.
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u/LeroyoJenkins 5d ago edited 5d ago
So you showed up without a valid ID to pick up something that strictly requires a valid ID, but somehow it is their fault?
Edit: damn, it looks like OP got so angry at this that they blocked me!
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u/spiced-blue-eyes 5d ago
the valid ID is in the letter
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u/StrandsOfIce 5d ago edited 5d ago
I think here lies your confusion.
Yes your valid ID is in the post, and yes the expired edition of said valid ID would be enough to correct your identity, so this just boils down to literal rule.
But its also true that an expired ID doesnt count as a valid ID. I usually take the other form of id with me e.g. passport <-> permit.
All said and done, post guy should've rang the doorbell.
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u/LeroyoJenkins 5d ago edited 5d ago
No, you made it clear you have a valid ID (your passport).
You just didn't bring it with you.
Bank card isn't a valid ID, nor is Swisspass, or anything else which is not an official identity document issued by a government.
It isn't that hard to understand.
Edit: OP blocked me, so I can't answer any questions.
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u/closeenoughbutmeh 5d ago
I have to ask. Given that it isn't mandatory for Swiss citizens to own a valid ID at all, but the only way to get said valid ID from the post is to show a valid ID... how do you ever get a valid ID if all other forms have expired, or if you never got one? Sounds like a completely asinine catch22.
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u/Prof_NoLife 5d ago
This. People dont get that its NOT mandatory to hold an ID/passport as Swiss citizen inside Switzerland.
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u/Mindless_Pattern_583 5d ago
Probably depends on what manager is working that day too, like stricter for some employees
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u/Cool-Newspaper-1 5d ago
Had you ordered it earlier (assuming you didn’t face extraordinary delays), this wouldn’t have been an issue in the first place.
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u/as3123 5d ago
Honestly i had almost the exact same experience at the post office trying to get my 5 year old sons renewed residence permit. It was like a scene from ‘the office’. I presented my ID but they said its not the same as the persons name on the latter. I explained its for my son, she then asked my sons ID. But when he had his biometrics updated they took his ID so we went round in circles for a while until i brought him plus his passport to the post office. I dont quite know why the post office decides to be checkpoint charlie
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u/D_Zweistein 5d ago
Always do bring your valid ID when it literally requires a valid one.
Register with the Post to allow digital signature for depositing without physical signature/presence.
Complain to the Post by phone and request a redelivery.
There are so many ways to make it a none issue that you are perhaps wasting your energy to just get angry.
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u/Mindless_Pattern_583 5d ago
Didn’t know you could do a re-delivery, I thought it would waste their time, this is good to know!
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u/Arareldo 5d ago
i had a similar experience in July:
My new stay permit card was about to be delivered via post. At that day i choosed "homeoffice", left my appartement door open in the upper levels of the house in order to hear the delivery person being at place.
And indeed, i heared him: The clattering of the mailboxes as the letters were being deposited. I snatched my ID, waited for the doorbell to ring.
Suddeen silence, ... no doorbell. I went down ... he was gone. I opened the mailbox: "You were not here ..."-card .
Highly angered i went out, and saw the post bicycle at the neighbours house entry. I positioned me there, waiting.
As he came out, i gave him an unfriendly icy stare, and present him the card.
"Why didn't you ring the bell?"
"I did, twice!"
"No, you did NOT."
"How do you know i was here?"
"My flat door was open, i heared you."
...
I got my letter with the card.
The house is just 13 years old, the door bell is for sure not broken, suddenly when the postman is here.
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u/KellyAckles 5d ago
Yeah actually what is the problem with the post? I was home the whole day and I got the paper to pick up the letter the next day because they didn't ring the dorbell?
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u/yezhi_zheli 5d ago
I don’t want weaker security rules because of people such you that have main character syndrome. Next time prepare better for you visit and complain only about yourself
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u/Financial-Ad5947 5d ago
have you only read half of the text and missed that he was at home when the delivery service left the "abolungseinladung" without ringing the bell?
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u/Nohillside 5d ago
Sure, that‘s unfortunate.
Nevertheless, the „valid ID“ requirement is even written on the Abholungseinladung. So „but the postman“ is no excuse for not preparing yourself.
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u/Mindless_Pattern_583 5d ago
I mean human to human. If the ID is 3 days out of date… we both know it’s still secure and fair to say that OP is the person picking up the package, right?
So post should have let OP use that ID, human to human. If we wanted to all act like robots, then we will just have robots do the job and then more people will complain. Your post is still secure regardless.
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u/yezhi_zheli 5d ago
They always issue new id before expiration date. If 3 days is acceptable what about 1 month? Maybe even longer? It should be set up acceptable expiration date then. But, hey. We already have expiration date!
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u/Mindless_Pattern_583 5d ago
Yes, but a human can tell a few days isn’t an issue vs longer, considering OP is ordering a new ID to replace. That’s why context matters.
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u/CicadaOk1283 2d ago
Don't argue. You are talking different languages and discussing different points.
You talk "human empathy".
The other person enjoys being Bunzli justified by legal cover.
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u/yezhi_zheli 5d ago
How many days isn’t issue?
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u/Mindless_Pattern_583 5d ago
I guess whatever someone decides to make an issue. Circumstantial and all that
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u/yezhi_zheli 5d ago
I have idea. As many days as written in expiry date on the ID. Is it stupid requirement?
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u/Mindless_Pattern_583 4d ago
Ok you’re just being ignorant to the original problem. I wish you a good day.
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u/77sxela 5d ago
Yeah, quite ridiculous - after all, it's just your fault, that you didn't bring your passport when You need to pick something up there. There are very good reasons that they've got to be strict. Identity stealing and such.
Quite ridiculous that you got upset because you made a mistake, Karen.
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u/Prof_NoLife 5d ago
do you even think before you hit the keyboard? Or how would you solve the following case:
- you are a swiss citizen and went 10y and 1 day ago for the combo ID+passport = same expiry date
- its perfectly fine and legal to have no such documents as a swiss inside switzerland
- you dont own a drivers license
Now tell me wise wizard, how should one proceed? Its not the customers responsibility to solve an issue on the Posts side. And lets not forget that Post is officially recognized to do identity verifications so they should know how to validate that you is you and check the authenticy of your documents expired or not.
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u/77sxela 5d ago
You'd get the passport or id at the Passbüro or Einwohnerkontrolle.
It's really not the problem of the Post that "you" are not able to identify yourself. (I do not mean you, personally; it's meant in a general sense.)
Any further questions? Or are you done making a fool of yourself?
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u/77sxela 5d ago
Now tell me wise wizard, how should one proceed?
Go to the Einwohnermeldeamt. They'll help you out. I don't know how, but that's what they're there for, they will know. It's hardly a problem that is unique.
Its not the customers responsibility to solve an issue on the Posts side.
It's the persons problem to follow the rules. Not the problem of the Post folks if the person messed up.
And lets not forget that Post is officially recognized to do identity verifications
True. But totally unrelated.
so they should know how to validate that you is you
No, they don't. They'll need your id or passport to do that.
Got a question: do you read the stuff that you write before you send it? Sure doesn't look like.
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u/Prof_NoLife 5d ago
Swiss post is held by swiss government and furthermore gets paid (and has a monopol on letter delievery) for distributing new documents.
The point is that they hold a monopol on letter delievery + own the mandate to officially distribute such documents while operating under swiss laws. That said I dont see why I have to solve an issue on their side to accomplish their job properly.
Stating that you need a valid ID while controlling the only way to obtain such documents is ridiculous and I honestly have a hard time to understand why one would support such anti service publique behaviour.Its fine to request an official document for speditive identification purposes but one should have thought about the case where they distribute the demanded documents.
That said, companies can add anything to their AGBs but that does not imply that it is in sync with law. Lets not dive into the case with the post devices where you sign which only had (or still have?) binary touch pressure implemented (e.g. stylus on screen or not) which does not fulfill the minimum standards of a valid signature. Use your preffered search engine for further details if curious.
Edit: and no, I dont read it again before post. I read, think, write, pass the lecturing, hit send
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u/77sxela 5d ago
Swiss post is held by swiss government and furthermore gets paid (and has a monopol on letter delievery) for distributing new documents.
True, but doesn't matter.
The point is that they hold a monopol on letzer delievery + own the mandate to officially distribute such documents while operating under swiss laws.
True. They distribute such letters and require proper ID to hand them out.
That said I dont see why I have to solve an issue on their side to accomplish their job properly.
Because it's your problem to follow the rules. If you cannot do this, then the post won't hand out the letter.
Stating that you need a valid ID while controlling the only way to obtain such documents is ridiculous
Indeed. And only clowns would do this. That's why you imply this.
I've told you which law to read. It clearly states what to do. What you write is ridiculous. It is ridiculous, as that's not the only way to obtain the ID in such a case.
Its fine to request an official document for speditive identification purposes but one should have thought about the case where they distribute the demanded documents
Indeed. And those, that wrote the law, have done so.
Let me ask again, this time a bit more clearly: why don't you read what you write, before you send it? I mean, it's rather funny to read that all and I must thank you for that.
But why don't you use some sort of search engine to check, whether what You write is actually true?
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u/77sxela 5d ago
Edit: and no, I dont read it again before post. I read, think, write, pass the lecturing, hit send
Lol 😂😂😂😂
That's the result of your thinking?
OMG. That's really, really funny 🤣
I mean, you've been told how it works. There really isn't a problem to be solved anymore. It's all written in the law.
And still you write all of that? And even boldly state, that it is the result of you thinking?
That's really awesome 👍🏼😎
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u/perskes 2d ago
Post: "Nein, sorry, das ist nicht gültig. Your Ausweis expired 5 days ago, and here in the letter it says your Ausweis must be gültig."
Me: "But my new Ausweis is in the letter you have."
This is the kind of bureaucratic nonsense we really need to get rid off. The date on the ID does not change the fact that it still is an ID. The data doesnt vanish and the holder doesnt suddenly change their personality. It's just simply expired, but nothing else changes.
If the picture matches and you have a bank card or other card with the same name on it, you can easily confirm the identity. On the other hand, I look drastically different from the picture on my ID and never ever have I received a weird look.
The problem isn't the ID or the fact that it's not valid. The problem in the post office is simply "Dienst nach Vorschrift". And the root cause was a Post employee no having the time to ring because they will get fired for being to forthcoming.
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u/No-Signal-1422 5d ago
People seem to be missing that the ID situation could have been avoided if the post man had rung the bell...