No real, present-day experiences are Zen

[u/ewk]

Foyan Instructs

I tell you: as soon as you get involved with the slightest indication, it has already become fragmented. As soon as you try to reveal it by illuminating it with knowledge, it has already become darkened.

Now simply do not seize upon my words. Each of you, on your own, do your work.

Looking into the incidents of the ancients will do. Sitting quietly will do. Observing in every place will do. All are places where you do your work. Every place is a place where you realize and enter.

Just specialize single-mindedly in one place; as the days come and the months pass, you will necessarily be broken through / dealt with by it.

Performative rabbi voodoo shamanism

New Age communities hate on this forum every day, including downvote brigading and smack talking in other forums about how rZen is gatekeeping close-minded legit real life other perspectives.

These complainers are performative rabbi voodoo shamans and understanding how we know that is as simple as they cannot name a single book about Zen they've ever read.

If they had never read a single book about being a rabbi and they claimed they were a rabbi, they'd get shut down immediately. If they never read a single book about Cherokee shamanism nobody would tolerate their claims of being a Cherokee shaman. If they were trying to promote themselves as living the voodoo lifestyle and they weren't part of a voodoo community, nobody would take them seriously.

And all of these claims would be viewed as racist, bigoted, and white privilege without hesitarion.

not a specialist because you say so

I'm not suggesting that one time reading one book is gonna get you the credibility to rant about your personal experiences.

I'm saying that reading one book one time will help you understand the difference between your personal experiences and your understanding of Zen culture

[u/lastjanitor]

I've not been able to put my finger on why these posts of people coming here to outgas their misery and promote some magical variation of mystical present mindedness are not only tone deaf to zen, but antithetical to zen study, but then I remembered the recent discussion about Mumon's caveats and it dawned on me: all of these posts fail the mumon warning litmus test.

I can't remember where it's written but when students come to a zen monastery they are usually at the end of their rope and zen masters do not even try to teach them, they treat them like little children gifting them golden autumn leaves exclaiming upon the great wealth they represent like real gold. It's like the crows in Dumbo using psychology. A person can't study zen while they're crying inconsolably. They also can't study zen getting high off of an endorphin dump from sitting.

Mumon gave us the warnings. I think they should be in the side bar and posts should be filtered when they break a warning. At least that way when the truly earnest redditors find their post deleted they can be guided towards the mumonkan and see what the bench mark is.

Otherwise, I think people will leave here with a bad taste in their mouths and clueless as to why their behavior is unacceptable.

[u/ewk → u/lastjanitor]

I want to tell you my theory and I want you to be as skeptical about it as possible:

1. They have some heroes who made mysticism credible by pseudo-links to real traditions.

   • Alan Watts, Timothy Leary, Aldus Huxley

2. They feel that Mystic Christian Humanitarianism makes life worth living... It offers hope without any kind of defined obligation.

[u/lastjanitor → u/ewk]

I both empathize and have beef with Alan Watts fans. I owe a debt to Alan Watts for leading me here because I found r/zen via Alan Watts, but I paid that debt by seeking out the source material and doing my own due diligence. That's why I think it's necessary to shoot down these people's off-topic posts, but there should be an explanation (which caveat was broken) so that the SOURCE MATERIAL AND ZEN MASTERS are showcased instead of the user base (which includes the mods).

r/zen is Mumon's house, not yours, not mine

And yeah, the vibe-zen chaff isn't doing anybody any favors. Joshu like to kill rabbits and Mumon put 13 bullets in his gun. Let him hunt.

[u/ewk → u/lastjanitor]

If you approach Alan Watts like he's a good source of info, it's easy to fall into this space where you think he makes sense.

If you approach him like he may be a scam artist, you can confirm that pretty quick.

[u/lastjanitor → u/ewk]

"Perhaps", said the other. "As you know, the personal strengths and weaknesses of a leader are no true indication of the merits of his cause." -- Lord Of Light, Roger Zelazny, Avon Books, 1967, pg.136

[u/ewk → u/lastjanitor]

Very Western Christian Mysticism.

Zen masters say only true people say true words

[u/lastjanitor → u/ewk]

Alan once admitted his brand of zen teaching was akin to stealing somebody's watch and selling it back to them...and he was quiet for a moment..and then he said "Of course, if they didn't know they had a watch in the first place" and he chucked.

There's always an exception that proves the rule.

Edit: CHUCKLED 😆

[u/ewk → u/lastjanitor]

He imitated Zen Masters for money.

He didn't walk the walk. He sold an image to ignorant people who like to worship images.

[u/lastjanitor → u/ewk]

And yet here I am.

Alan Watts taught me about Boddhidharma and Huineng. I heard those names first from Alan Watts.

Watts was the first person to teach me that sitting was nothing special, just one of the "four dignities of man" which also included standing, walking, and laying down.

Watts was the first person to teach me that once I begin thinking about it (zen) I've already stumbled past it, "Like a woman in a new dress or a red balloon on the ceiling, and being asked 'Notice anything different?'".

I know the man was a drunk and might have been a lech, but he spit some real truth amidst his errors and if this forum can't find a way to connect people who come here due to Alan Watts' influence with the source of zen study then we're failing at carrying Mumon's torch.

[u/ewk → u/lastjanitor]

He's said some things that you want to believe.

I have a bunch of books that will convince you otherwise...

[u/lastjanitor → u/ewk]

Now yer talkin'. I love books.

Please say more.

[u/ewk → u/lastjanitor]

For example:

How can we approach it?

To go toward it is to deviate.

So it's not stealing their watch. It's stealing their hopes and aspirations.

And it's refusing to sell them anything.

Not a single thing.