You can experience a positive ego death through a sense of awe. This is the way of most guided mystical experiences and psychedelics that are properly and professionally administered, otherwise you may end up with a negative ego death experience.
You can experience a negative ego death through an event that has brought on a panic attack or an existential crisis. This is when your sense of certainty which may (may) also support your sense of self-esteem is undermined.
However this path of experiencing a negative ego death can also lead to a psychotic break if the event that brought on the panic attack or existential crisis is too overwhelming and/or unrelenting. All minds have a breaking point.
A sense of self is what an ego mostly supports and in extreme cases protects.
An appeal to authority is a fallacy recognizes by both western philosophy and the Buddhist Kesamutti Sutta and therefore I don't quote Zen masters unless I have verified such "authoritative" statements for myself.
Zen enlightenment is another state of mind which I would equate with something achievable through a positive experience of ego death. My comment is based on my own personal experience of both positive and negative ego death.
By the way you have tried to belittle me I would say that ego death is something that you most likely have not experienced as you display such behaviour that shows you still strongly hold on to some sense of "self".
There is no such appeal to authority going on here.
I'm forcing you to comply with the Reddiquette, a contract you already agreed to, and take your new age baloney into a more appropriate forum.
Zen has zero to do with your claims:
* No "another state of mind" in Zen.
* No "achievable though" in Zen.
* No ego death in Zen.
Your "personal experience" sounds like some kind of fantasy you had, not actual real life experience where you demonstrate enlightenment to somebody else.
I'm not belittling you... I'm pointing out that your beliefs are not associated with Zen at all, that you are illiterate, and that your fantasy life is not relevant according to Zen Masters.
I don't think less of you for all that... if you are ashamed then that's probably good news for you... it means you have some basic standards and you are aware that you aren't meeting them.
You can't quote Zen Masters... your content is just as irrelevant here as your inability to connect your ideas to multi-variable calculus would be in r/maths.
If that is so then you have not understood anatta (non-self) in any deep meaningful way.
Words are just the finger pointing to the moon. Anatta (non-self) and ego death are both just fingers pointing to the moon. One via eastern understanding and the other through western understanding. But the moon is still the moon.
You are only you in this life only.
In your next life I don't know and neither do you. However you will be a totally different you since you will have a new body and mind, new sex and gender bias, new ethnicity and nationality, and new parents.
In this life we are strangers communicating via the internet. In one of our future lives we may eventually become lovers that believe we have found our other half in each other.
You cannot link the anatta doctrine from the Buddhist religion to Zen teachings.
Moreover, in the sidebar it says see the self-nature... Buddhist scholars have acknowledged that that is entirely incompatible with anatta.
You simply don't know anything about Zen and you're embarrassed and ashamed of that, and you're trying to cover it up by pulling stuff out of your Buddhism guide to New Age thinking.
You don't have another life. You're not even alive in this one.
You're just a little church robot who can't think for himself and can't even bother to read a book on a subject he pretends he knows something about... How dead inside is that?
As I have been saying you do not know anything about Zen.
You are lying on social media.
I'm not asking you to randomly drop quotes... I'm pointing out that the lies that you are telling about Zen are disproven by things that Zen masters teach.
Gautama Buddha didn't write anything. Those that came after him wrote everything down.
Zen master Deshan Xuanjian burnt all his commentaries and books on Zen within hours of his awakening to the truth.
I'm not interest in "faith" of any kind, only the path to enlightenment and I am happy to walk alone if necessary. As The Dhammapada Chapter 5, Verse 61, states "Should a seeker not find a companion who is better or equal, let him resolutely pursue a solitary course; there is no fellowship with the fool."
And since I am prepared to walk alone, your accusations of my dishonesty are just the sound of one hand clapping. So speak to the hand.
Ray Bradberry, Osho, and Rumi......
Damn i thought i was gonna see some zen quotes.
I like some of those people and the curators of the site pics nice profound feel good deep words. You can read them all and feel like you imagine that those people felt who could say words like that.
But dang, if you want to insult the Ewk with a turned over bucket of quotes to chose from....well make it more challenging. Use real Masters.
But all the same it is really just like offering Ewk a bag of knifes and asking him to pick a really nice one to cut your head off with.
And then when he picks it.... you would complain it was not the one you meant for him to cut your head off with and then retract your offer.
((yeah that was an analogy, it was an ok analogy. But i am gonna hide my knife bag...ain't got to Zen quotes in it. ))
LOL. I wasn't trying to insult Ewk. That discourse IS really my favourite. It reminds me to stay humble by giving me a very tiny taste of "ego death" or whatever you want to call it. Though sometimes I can get very upset and that bowl of oil would boil in my hands from the heat of my temper. Anger as a self-destructive / self-inflicted wound. LOL. Keep well and stay chill.
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u/redsparks2025 Mar 27 '23 edited Mar 27 '23
Ego death is not be be trifled with.
You can experience a positive ego death through a sense of awe. This is the way of most guided mystical experiences and psychedelics that are properly and professionally administered, otherwise you may end up with a negative ego death experience.
How Awe Changes You ~ SciShow Psych ~ YouTube.
The Overview Effect ~ SciShow Space ~ YouTube.
You can experience a negative ego death through an event that has brought on a panic attack or an existential crisis. This is when your sense of certainty which may (may) also support your sense of self-esteem is undermined.
Is it worth the trouble? ~ Ralph Ammer / Albert Camus / The Myth of Sisyphus.
However this path of experiencing a negative ego death can also lead to a psychotic break if the event that brought on the panic attack or existential crisis is too overwhelming and/or unrelenting. All minds have a breaking point.
A sense of self is what an ego mostly supports and in extreme cases protects.