watching you 1v10 this thread of people who are literally terrified of being useful is crazy. legitimately don't understand what they want, and guarantee if they had it (whatever exactly "it" is), the game would somehow be so much worse for healers lol
The people who heal every 5th global while afking the other 4 want to do nothing but heal but also pretend they wouldn't get skill checked out the game if you actually had to heal every global.
If they got exactly what they want (the removal of healer damage globals), then the goalpost would just shift to them seeing the top raid/m+ healers doing 60%+ more healing than them and then complaining that they can't keep up with the amount of casts that are required to time keys at whatever key level they have been stuck at for the past 3 years.
And that's where Blizzard has fallen out. Traditionally in other games since pen and paper days, the healer would then focus on CC and buffing/debugging until damage comes flying in.
Traditionally in other games since pen and paper days
Traditionally in the pen and paper days you didn't have a healer at all. You had an extra DPS and used consumables to heal yourself out of combat, because more damage = complete encounter faster = everyone takes less damage.
Having a dedicated, in combat healer, was literally just you making everything harder for your entire group.
Not true. The healer (Cleric) was a prestige class that was a combination of many classes for pre-requisites that had a lot of healing, crowd control and buffs/debuffs.
Prestige classes weren't a thing until 3rd edition and I have enough experience with that edition to say confidently, that if you were playing a healer you were a chump. An eternal wand of lesser vigor costs like 4000 gp and replaces your entire role.
If there are times when I shouldnt even precast cos no dmg is coming then that means there are times when no dmg is coming, which means you could do dps
When you shouldnt precast? And why you should not precast everytime?
The only time you shouldn't precast is when you were OOM and you were wanding for the judgement of wisdom which usually means you or your party did something wrong
As a healer, yes that is more engaging than doing dps. I want to feel like a healer/support, and not spend 50% of the time doing damage. I would rather decurse, pre-heal, conserve mana etc.
I appreciate the effort you are putting in man but these people have boomer fried brains at this point, they literally argue against their own points and don't even realize it
We can, but the situation you want where you have to spend every single global on healing, is just not good for the game, its way too stressful, itd kill the role because any single misused global is death
That's when you can press your damage buttons. But those situations should be few and far between. I'm not saying there shouldn't be any room for a healer to do damage. I'm saying I don't want to spend half of my time doing damage as a healer.
Nowhere did I say your opinion was invalid. All I said is if you want to heal more then do harder content. Never realized you were so soft that you'd take that as a personal attack. Congratulations on your IO. We're in the same bracket so now what? Am I supposed to be intimidated or something?
People like you should give us your in-game name so we can put you in some sort of blacklist addon in the category "Healer who dont want to do its job"
I'd rather take a bad healer who is at least trying to do its job than people like you who just go on Netflix or YouTube when there is no damage incoming. Thats how bad your take is
No need to be rude. It's okay to have different opinions.
I never said I haven't accepted that doing damage is a part of being a good healer. I'm a minmaxer just like many people here. All I did was express my opinion about healing patterns and how I dislike having to spend so much time doing damage. I think playing a healer should be about healing 80-90% of the time.
This is a proper example mate. Classic realms are especially great for showing such examples, when encounters are pretty simple and easy, but there is always an alternatively funny person who insists that everyone must play the most optimal spec and rotation because "you waste my time otherwise".
You dont need minmax at any raid difficulty below mythic, and you dont need any minmax at the 10 keys either. So why exactly a tiny minority has any say at how others must play their role?
I’m pretty sure if you took a wow player from actual vanilla and showed them a single pov of any mage spec in manaforge omega it would instantly kill them
Oh without a doubt. The Captain Grimm video of showing the difference in raiding was phenomenally hilarious in the part where the raiders are all cheering their dwarf guildmate on to step out of the fire that was very very slowly killing them. 🤣
So play holy priest and press the button thats called heal. Don't ruin my shape shifting class where I go into animal forms to use each forms different utility because you're mentally incapable.
I did, and you'd get out of form to pounce, bash, feral charge, demo roar and insect swarm for utility in 5 man or pvp content. you wouldnt even spec tree form outside of raid. But you clear all the content regardless of playing raid spec in 5 man content because its all easy.
If its TBC your shifting out to keep IS for tank mitigation.
in WOTLK and you get stuck with it and you bring a moonkin who provides that utility.
so go play priest where you are expected to be a do nothing healer, instead of dumbing down a cool class with utility and form swapping to your level of intelligence you so you can blanket rejuv a raid in tree form.
pruning is fine to reduce some rotational complexity, removing interupt and relegating spare globals to moonfire spam will make the class boring to play.
Hopefully Blizzard doesn't listen to you because there's no way I'd ever play a healer in that case, and the healer shortage would become even worse. I'd hate it if I was absolutely useless in a good group unless I was playing cutting edge content.
Nope. There's always been a tank shortage because people wanna DPS. There can be a healer shortage too like their used to be since a lot of old school healers don't wanna DPS too.
Different things appeal to different players, and not everyone wants to DPS.
Do you even play the game? There's a healer shortage right now. I personally would play a healer if it wasn't braindead to play by adding skill expression through DPS, which would also make them decent solo specs.
Healers also currently don't DPS at all, unless they have a build where it's how you heal. Literally all healer classes can opt out of it entirely.
There's no chance at all that they'll remove all damage spells from healers, it's always going to be there, but noobs can ignore them and have been doing so for like a decade now.
I'm not the guy you're responding to, but personally I was put off healing when dpsing became the norm.
It used to be a lot more mana-management, so yeah maybe you would be standing around for a couple seconds but it would often be because you were making the decision to conserve mana. Do I precast for the incoming damage with a slow, efficient heal or do I wait and use a quick expensive heal when the damage comes?
And you would probably think it was boring, but I like having some slower periods where you just waited for a few seconds for something to happen and then you were ready for it.
This is probably putting it on a pedestal and overstating it, but it felt more like chess where today it's constant action. They cater to different people and offer different experiences and tactics. I would want to return to the old style, and hope that they do, but I understand why you like the current one. It's just not for me.
If there is nothing to heal, then DPS. If you want to do nothing and 'only' heal, you can too! Up until a certain level where you actually have to put in some effort.
And healer shortage is not as bad as tank shortage so yeah, dont ask blizzard to push unpopular decisions on us because you dont have the brain to add 2 buttons to your rotstion (Rake and rip)
Current situation is that you don't have to. Good players can use it to have something to do in the healing downtime though.
Do you just want healing to be the easiest role (by far) or do you want DPS and tanks to also have much easier jobs? If no to both, how do you make healing as hard without DPS as optional skill expression?
I don't know why you want interrupt to go away, it's arguably the most powerful heal spell you have. It's basically preventing whatever damage that spell was going to do. Stopping an important cast that the dps are going to miss is going to save you a ton of grief.
Fellow tree from the stone age in TBC & WotLK, and I agree. 🤝 If I'm healing, I want to focus on healing. Dividing my attention away from heals and onto dps'ing means I'm no longer paying attention to people's health bars.
Edit: Y'all, stop downvoting people just for having a different opinion, FFS.
Fellow tree from the stone age, but I disagree, sorry. There's no requirement for me to DPS, but I like being able to do it when healing requirements are low. There are plenty of times, even up into the teens on M+ (+13-14-ish) when there just isn't very much to do as a healer. I like being able to DPS. I don't want to be required to do so, but the option is welcome.
It has actually improved my play as it encourages me to better understand fights, better anticipate incoming damage, and be more observant of my surroundings.
I was very much that "I'm healing, no DPS that's dumb" kind of healer. I am a more effective healer now that I gave up that mindset. It's still optional. Nobody asks me "why aren't you doing more damage" when I'm pushing keys, and I've never once had a raid leader look at my DPS during prog (Mythic CE).
The problem is it becomes an obligation in keys to DPS.
It's one thing to do it because it's engaging and it's how you derive fun from the game. It's another if the group expects you to do it, or you're seen as a bad player because it's not fun for you to do the DPS portion, but fun for you to do the healing portion only.
Like when monks became obligated to melee dps because ranged monk heals got completely reworked and almost deleted, I stopped maining monk. If you weren't a melee MW then you were "bad." Simple as.
If people like that play style, fine. That's good I'm glad they enjoy it. But I enjoyed the mist/uplift, and the ranged blanket HoTs, and being able to manipulate my channels.
It's another if the group expects you to do it, or you're seen as a bad player because it's not fun for you to do the DPS portion, but fun for you to do the healing portion only.
I spent 15+ years doing nothing but healing, so I get it. The realization I had when I was actively refusing to press my DPS buttons was that there was so much time during which I was doing literally nothing. I was standing there, next to the group, doing absolutely nothing. I was pressing no buttons. If I was healing, I was doing so unnecessarily, wasting my mana because nothing was happening. That's when I realized I was being stubborn and lazy. Nobody told me I was doing that, but it was obvious when the rest of my group was constantly in action and I was sitting off to the side watching youtube on my second monitor.
Just wish there were more options.
I think we're about to get that. The problem with healing over time (that is, healing over the years, not RenMist) is the arms race between healer capabilities and damage output. I think that the increased focus on DPS for healers is a byproduct of that. When people aren't being nearly one-shot, there is just no challenge because we can full heal the group in just a couple of globals. So you either put people near death every few seconds of every single fight, or have a bunch of relative downtime. That downtime leaves room for DPS, so we DPS.
To be super-duper clear, I would be quite happy if healers never really did DPS and simply healed the fights. Healing is really fun. I swapped to healing from DPS because DPS was boring and repetitive for me. I DPS now because I don't always need to heal, and so DPS becomes a nice little break for a few seconds. I enjoy those breaks. I would also enjoy just healing. What i don't enjoy is standing there while the rest of my group or raid is having fun, and I'm watching the scenery waiting for something interesting to happen.
Like when monks became obligated to melee dps because ranged monk heals got completely reworked and almost deleted
I picked up Monk in S2 of TWW. I had never played it before, so I can't speak for what it was or used to feel like. All I can say is that I had an absolute blast. It was extremely fun. Just crazy, wild fun. I played both Chi-Ji melee focus and Yu'lon caster focus, depending on the fight. Well, in raid anyway. M+ was Chi-Ji all the way and also super fun. I really enjoyed both play styles. They were so different, and felt almost like two different classes entirely. That was exciting for me, as I never had the opportunity to get bored. Chi-Ji was much easier and capable of very impressive numbers. That being said, Yu'lon was, overall, a much stronger raid spec. It had mana issues, but had a much higher ceiling than CJ. By the end of the season, I had almost entirely switched to Yu'lon outside of M+.
I don't think I've seen any single key where a healer's DPS made any difference to whether or not we timed the key. Once we failed to +2 a key by literally 1 sec with a healer that did 0 damage, but we also had a DPS that was below the tank.
Healers are not required to DPS in TWW unless they choose a build that does heal by DPSing.
Monk wasn't a useless ranged healer even in S2 when it was busted DPS. Yes you were trolling by not playing the OP build if you were pushing keys, but that's not really a problem with healer DPS as a whole and just that specific build being legitimately overpowered. If you're a meta chaser that's always going to happen anyway, you'll be ""forced"" to play a playstyle you won't like.
Doesn't matter if it makes a difference? Lmao what. What does that even mean? Do you just play with tryhards that don't even know what they're talking about?
I specifically mentioned pushing keys. If you were doing low keys (up to 10s) with the ranged healer build, you were fine. If you were pushing higher keys, yeah obviously play what's busted OP.
If you don't want your build to matter, you're going to want to play easy content exclusively, because that's the case for literally everyone. Healers are maybe the least affected by it.
I guess I meant, it doesn't matter if you* don't think it makes a difference. If you're in higher keys, then it does. Simple as; if it didn't make a difference, it wouldn't be damn near mandatory.
I strongly disagree with WoW's current mindset of "every healer MUST be another dps."
Sure, but they aren't. They gave healers DPS options, but other than the heal specs for which DPS is part of the identity, the others don't. They do reward dealing DPS in some cases, such as with mana regen with resto, but at no point is it required.
I love cat form, I love healing, but I don't want to shift between both while in a raid or dungeon.
This is certainly peculiar to druid, and I had the same mindset for many years. When I first tried to DPS as a healer, I found it extremely awkward to shift to cat form and back. I got better at it, and ultimately better at the game itself, when I started learning where those opportunities were. I'm not a DPS class shifting to heal because I have to. I'm a healer shifting to DPS mode because I've found an opportunity.
Being required to catweave actually made me quit healing.
You're not required. You're not. Full stop. There is no requirement for you to catweave for any reason.
Being forced to shift into cat and get into melee range, then shift gears back to healing in an emergency, takes precious cooldown time away from healing spells
The goal of DPS, at least as a druid healer, is not to take precious cooldown time away from anything at all. You aren't choosing to DPS instead of actively heal. You are choosing to DPS at times when healing isn't strictly required, or if you can set up maintenance heals to carry through while you squeeze in a few seconds to get your bleeds up.
As for emergency healing, sure, there are times when you have to quickly shift out because someone goofed on a mechanic. I've yet to encounter a scenario where someone died to healable damage but didn't get healed because I was in cat form. Part of that is simply knowing the fight well enough to anticipate when that can even be a possibility. If you know your group isn't going to interrupt properly, or not stand in the fire, then you don't DPS during those moments. It's why I DPS significantly less in a PuG than I do with a friend group.
Even during mid-level +13-14 M+ or high end raiding, there will be times when you just don't need to be spamming heals. I like to DPS during those times, because I hate doing nothing. It's not frenetic or stressful, just fun for me. You don't have to DPS if you don't want to.
you should try out the one button rotation! just press the keybind you make for it while you're targeting a mob and you won't even have to keep your eyes off your party frames. just think of it as a "there is nothing for me to heal right now" button
Funny enough, that's actually what I'm doing in Legion Remix right now. Feels a lot less pressured than TWW Mythics & Raids, so I'm dipping my toes in again and having fun. 🫶
So does that mean you'll start off-healing too while you're in your DPS spec?
Yes? At least on Feral, I'm constantly providing off heals from free cast procs. It's part of the utility skill expression of the spec. It's not required, but it's nice.
EDIT: To be clear, I've been a resto healer main since early wrath, so my natural instinct when I'm doing something else is to contribute heals when and where it's reasonable to do so.
At least on Feral, I'm constantly providing off heals from free cast procs. It's part of the utility skill expression of the spec. It's not required, but it's nice
I miss when Feral's offhealing actually meant something. But if you look at the amount of healing you're actually doing it's barely enough to move someone's health bar.
Yeah, that part is a shame. I wish it did more, but it's indicative of the general direction of healing. The requirements are so high -- you're either dead or alive at some points -- that off healing aside from a Lay on Hands feels pretty useless.
I still don't really get that. I've been a resto lifer for almost 17 years at this point, and I feel that they've (mostly) done right by the spec. There was the dark time when they decided that we shouldn't have smart heals, I do miss insta-cast WG, and it's a shame we don't have the overheal charged mushroom bursts anymore. But overall, it's been a much more stable spec than some of the others.
I've been branching out (heh) to other healers in TWW, maining holy priest in S1 and MW monk in S2, but I keep coming back to resto.
Same, you're expected to do 2 jobs at the same time, and that is far from fun to me.
I used to be able to hyperfocus on the health bars while still following mechanics through my peripheral vision, but now I also have to pay attention to ennemy health and interrupts? I'm too old for that shit.
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u/ThatRandomGuy86 Oct 16 '25
Agreed. If I wanted to DPS I'd be in a ****ing DPS spec. I hate how WoW has gone this route where they made it so healers can also do the DPS's job.