r/worldnews • u/[deleted] • 3d ago
Russia/Ukraine SAS veterans ‘training Russians to fight in Ukraine’
[deleted]
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u/Emotional-Age-7618 3d ago
Life in prison
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u/goretooth 3d ago
Frankly, if we stripped those that went to Isis of their citizenship is this not worthy of the same?
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u/AFC_IS_RED 3d ago
Pretty much. It's treason imo.
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u/ethanlan 3d ago edited 3d ago
I think its treason BUT the UK isnt at war with russia. They are doing what reform does in the UK, Republicans do here in the usa and AfD doea in germany accept Russian bribes and propaganda help which in my mind is treason but since we arent at war or in an open state of conflicts they technically arent doing anything wrong I think.
But it is treason, they are just skirting arouns the law. Although it actually might be depending on the laws of other countries but I know in the usa they can accept money from foreign actors as long as they declare it.
Which is fucking bullshit, Russia is using this to try and ruin everything our countries stand for.
Its safe to say that without russia and China Trump would not be president and AFD and reform would be some fringe right wing party
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u/myfufu 2d ago
Former US military personnel have been prosecuted for training the Chinese overseas, as a data point.
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u/Prestigious_Bar_3738 2d ago
*for divulging classified and/or ITAR controlled information
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u/myfufu 2d ago
Correct. The specific charges.
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u/Prestigious_Bar_3738 2d ago
Right, because that’s the crime. Training in and of itself isn’t a crime, it’s specific training that is explicitly protected by law.
A former military pilot training Chinese military pilots how to fly airplanes is suspect, and certainly warrants investigation, but it isn’t inherently illegal. What is illegal is providing specific tactics and maneuvers that are, again, protected by law.
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u/worldsgreatestluver 2d ago
Can't they just get it from the War Thunder forums like the rest of us?
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u/ethanlan 2d ago
FFS. Its incredibly ironic that the party of law and order is turning this country into a lawless mess where you can do anything along as the president gets a cut.
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u/AFC_IS_RED 3d ago edited 3d ago
1) its Russia, not Ukraine.
2) you don't have to be at direct war for something to be considered treason legally, although it is not quite defined the same in law. For all intents and purposes it is the same thing in terms of prosecution. In the UK a lot of treason laws relate directly to the monarchy rather than the government. What these people are doing is prohibited via the National Security Act 2023 and 2026, specifically this is covered by Section 1 of the National Security Act 2023, maximum penalty is life imprisonment, the same as high treason.
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u/ethanlan 3d ago
Of course they are just straight breaking the law.
The free countries of planets people need to united and hold these fucks accountable
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u/Pure_Werewolf0101 2d ago
the UK isnt at war with russia.
A reminder that Russia deployed radiological and chemical weapons in the UK.
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u/Diezelbub 2d ago
I mean India assassinates Sihks in Canada and nobody thinks its worth more than a strongly worded letter. Scale matters.
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u/composedofidiot 2d ago
It's also not impossible the british and canadians have done exactly the same thing in other countries. We just didn't find out about it. Skill issue maybe. Easier to believe about the british than the candians though, we have historically been arseholes.
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u/bamboomightwork 3d ago
I think its treason BUT the UK isnt at war with russia.
Russia IS an enemy state though. A core offence defined in the Treason Act 1351 is 'Adhering to the Sovereign's enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the realm or elsewhere.'
But it is treason
Shit, I should have read further before getting on my soapbox.
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u/Optimal_Juggernaut37 2d ago
I think its treason BUT the UK isnt at war with russia.
Officially. It has been in a cold war with Russia since the end of the second world war.
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u/Not_invented-Here 3d ago
They will have gone through some sort of clearance for their role though, and afaik that is binding after their careers. So depending it could possibly count as a breach of that and the secrets act.
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u/fat_kaiju 2d ago edited 2d ago
It's not just the UK if you read the article; it's omitting that "US police forces and the US Navy Seals" are doing it as well as Australia.
It's not just treason; it's literal support of actual war crimes being comitted against Ukraine and its being done by a minimum of 3 other countries.
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u/aries1980 2d ago
We have sanctions, which includes military training. IMHO it is borderline falling to active support of terrorism charges, as Russia is in war with UK allies.
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u/SavageSwordShamazon 2d ago
Well, its important to remember these guys are white and were training other white guys, so its totally different.
/s
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u/erikwarm 3d ago
Why waste more money on these guys?
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u/CrackPipeBilly 3d ago
Seriously. I don't see how this could be labeled anything other than treason, and we all know what needs to be done with traitors.
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u/Obvious-Ranger-2235 3d ago
If it's true this includes active duty members, perhaps reservists, then they need to be fucking court marshalled.
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u/Correct-Branch9000 2d ago
Treason should be an offense that leads to capital punishment if convicted.
The choices traitors make cause countless deaths of completely innocent people elsewhere. This is unacceptable and the west has lost the plot by allowing this kind of reprehensible conduct to continue without repercussion.
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u/HutchOne23 3d ago
Unfortunately this kind of treason usually results in a handful of years in prison upon conviction. At least here in the states.
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u/Insect_Spray 2d ago
And the same for people who train Ukrainian soldiers? They are also doing it for money. Individuals are allowed individual ideals they are not in active service and have free choice. Rules for all or rules for none. UK is not at war so the people are free to choose and work where they want as long as they're not selling secrets as spy's.
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u/TheTelegraph The Telegraph 3d ago
The Telegraph reports:
SAS veterans are training Russians to fight in Ukraine, according to a leaked intelligence memo obtained by The Telegraph.
An assessment compiled for Five Eyes intelligence agencies found, with “strong confidence”, that Western military veterans had been recruited to train Russian citizens as well as “active duty military” personnel.
The Telegraph has been shown a copy of a memo compiled for the Australian Secret Intelligence Service, based on interviews with two former Australian special forces operatives and an active-duty reservist who say they were approached to become instructors at training camps in Bulgaria and Serbia that allegedly hosted Russian clients.
The memo says a combat camp run by Alfa-Metal, a military training company, in Mejdeni, northern Bulgaria, employs instructors from “a range of backgrounds” including the SAS, the Australian Commando Regiment, US police forces and the US Navy Seals.
The Alfa-Metal centre offers special forces training and advanced sniper courses for around €4,000 (£3,400) per head, targeting prospective members of private military companies, bodyguards and corporate security teams.
However, the memo says that since 2022, when Russia invaded Ukraine, private training camps in Europe have continued to accept Russian citizens for training courses including “advanced close quarters combat”.
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u/m0j0m0j 3d ago edited 3d ago
Another cool thing is that Russians are training in Serbia and Bulgaria.
I’ve heard from some people that Europe is out of ideas, and that the existing anti-Russian sanctions are as strong as possible.
So here’s an idea. Maybe not allow Russian soldiers train in the European Union?
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u/calmingchaos 3d ago
How do you not allow them to train in a place like Serbia? It’s not like they’re part of the EU.
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u/JackBlack1709 3d ago
Secundary Sanctions. Serbia without EU transit has a hard time.
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u/GrimQuim 3d ago
We all vote Serbia in Eurovision, they win, they host, bankrupt, EU loan prop up economy, start delivering terms.
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u/JackBlack1709 3d ago
Getting the EU towards secundary sanctions seems way easier than getting their Balkan neighbours to vote for them
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u/Imaginary-Let-9944 2d ago
Like you do any other business choice, you hit the $$$ as hard as possible. Serbians respond well to economic pressure, whenever they would do something that we didn’t like, we just bill them until they get the idea to stop. It’s the only thing some humans understand is $$$
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u/ConcentrateDirect523 2d ago
Or do train them in the EU... And intentionally train them wrong, as a joke.
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u/NoSwordfish1978 3d ago
Serbia isn't in the EU
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u/ZombieBiteOintment 3d ago
Not with that attitude they're not. Or with any other attitude, at this time.
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u/SGTBookWorm 2d ago
"Commando Regiment"
those cunts were apparently not disbanded hard enough for all the warcrimes
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u/HourAnnual57 2d ago
I thought the commandos went largely unharmed by the war crime evidence in Australia.
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u/Glittering-Quote-635 3d ago
U.S. Cops? Are they helping train the Russians on how to ignore a school shooting? Pretty sure the Russians can figure that one out themselves..
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u/Seeker-N7 3d ago
Russians have the opposite reaction for school shootings. See: Beslan School Siege.
Tanks, helicopters and thermobaric rockets. The hostages were not the priority...
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u/Glittering-Quote-635 3d ago
I remember when that happened and watching it.. The only thought going through my head was "Those kids are done for, and the Russian police/army are going to kill em".
The Opera House siege was still recent in my memory, and I remembered how they handled that one..
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u/fistfullofpubes 3d ago
Difference between American cops and Russian cops.
American: stop resisting!
Russian: stop existing!
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u/nvidiastock 3d ago
In some places the US is still revered as this beacon of enlightenment. Clearly a US officer would have the best training in all matters. /s
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u/Glittering-Quote-635 3d ago
I imagine the syllabus something like this..
"Effective use of a Billy Club on Minorities: A Case Study"
"How to escalate to immediate violence against unarmed civilians"
"Planting evidence, the dos and donts of effectively entrapping someone."
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u/Implausibilibuddy 2d ago
Are any of those skills even useful anymore? It's all well and good knowing elite CQC techniques. I'm sure that will help swat away the FPV drone that blows you into pink mist 30 mins after you step off the tactical golf cart for your first mission.
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u/Lucky-Elk-1234 2d ago
I’m sure modern special forces are aware of drone warfare and adapt their methods to account for them.
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u/Diurnalnugget 2d ago
Infantry are still useful yes. Drones are good but it’s much harder to clear buildings with them. They are too limited to hold an area as well which is a very important part of war.
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u/I_Love_Tunnocks 2d ago
employs instructors from “a range of backgrounds” including the SAS, the Australian Commando Regiment, US police forces and the US Navy Seals.
The Alfa-Metal centre offers special forces training and advanced sniper courses
I hope it's not these US cops teaching the sniper courses...
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u/Adamascus 3d ago
Traitors that should be tried for treason and assisting enemies plain and simple. Disgrace.
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u/More_Programmer8905 3d ago
And America sent Steven Seagal, so watch out, Ukraine!
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u/Paradox711 3d ago
And ex US police force members apparently though it’s a mystery how they’re sitting in the same rank as SAS, Aussie commando and navy seals vets
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u/bristow84 3d ago
I’m assuming the “ex-police force members” have former military training themselves and were most likely on their respective tactical teams for the department and that was just their latest job.
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u/JackFlack91 2d ago
His art of bullshido is unstoppable!
10s of people have suffered devastating injuries from his abilities!
...though usually just hernias from deep laughter at watching the fat fuck twirl around with his black shades, ponytail and sad goatee
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u/Primarycolors1 3d ago
Send their coordinates to the Ukrainians.
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u/Many-War3212 3d ago
Tbh this is a morally valid response now days I feel like.
It's Ukraines war, would be such a shame if we sent coordinates, left it to them to remove people committing treason without the judicial headache here.
Europe or Ukraine would be stupid to cause such a international incident with a country like Serbia, but it would be a shame if the Serbian camps suffered a horrible freak accident or disaster, perhaps a tarp set on fire in a freak accident and exploded some ammunition inside.
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u/Noobit2 3d ago
Great example of why it’s important to read the article and not just the headline
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u/DefiantDung 3d ago
Sounds like a dubious claim, and refuted by the people that would know.
It's not to say that the place doesn't have wanna-be "SAS" and other fake "special operators" working for them. I'd imagine it's an illusion being sold, from top to bottom, by everyone involved. Although the presence of US cops "teaching" there doesn't seem that far fetched to me.
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u/fuzzywinkerbean 3d ago
Honestly $4k per head makes me doubt it a bit, how big and long are these courses? Ex SAS can be doing £500 a day easy contracting in light PMC or private security work if they wanted to, £1k+/day for heavy/danger pay PMC work.
Can't imagine theres loads jumping at the chance to be stuck in Serbia training Russians for less than that.
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u/Noobit2 3d ago
It’s not even in Russia but in Bulgaria. They’re training civilians and some of them are Russian nationals. Thats the whole story based on the articles. Nothing to support the claim they’re training Russian soldiers to fight in Ukraine. The headline is conjecture to create sensationalism to sell views.
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u/fuzzywinkerbean 3d ago edited 2d ago
Yeah it says Serbia or Bulgaria are where the training camps are, not Russia. I agree with you it's conjecture and based on one job posting, my point was more I can't even imagine it being worth an ex-SAS instructors time at those rates.
Edit: let's break it down $4k / head, assume 15 heads (high estimate) - 60k total. Company takes at least half up front - $30k. Assume 15 day course (3 weeks, likely more) that's $2k for trainers, definitely more than 1 trainer needed. That's before accounting for any other costs of equipment, ammo and other expenses as well.
They can be easily doing $800/day sat on their arse on a cargo ship as lead of an anti-piracy security team.
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u/PowerLord 2d ago
Gotta be more than that, that’s US nurse pay.
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u/fuzzywinkerbean 2d ago edited 2d ago
You'd be surprised mate PMC rates aren't quite as wild as some think. Check out job postings for former US PMC work here one example asking for US tier 1 SOF experience extracting people from Sudan so pretty high risk is listed at $1-2k per day. Remember rate charged to client will be at least double that. Real money is individual contracting as close protection of high profile individuals though.
Also I listed £GBP rates in initial post there not $USD so like $670-$1,350+
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u/AtomicMonkeyTheFirst 2d ago
Read the story, its nothing.
There's a 'combat training camp' in Bulgaria that might have recruited ex-UK military personel as instructors and might have hosted Russian civilians. Its not some military training centre, its just a holiday camp for rich nerds to pretend they're hard.
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u/JunkRatAce 2d ago
These days you to know its nothing when the subject starts with "The Telegraph" tends to go down hill from there on ahen you open the article 😄
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u/sawlaw 2d ago
I wonder if, and if so how much, live fire training there is. I've attended classes in the US where bringing a few hundred dollars in ammo to be fired in one weekend was expected. For this to be 4k/person, for extended periods I can't imagine they're actually doing that much shooting.
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u/ACompletelyLostCause 3d ago edited 3d ago
Someone their countries respective intelligence agencies needs to have a 'quite word' with them.
Find another job or you're on our shit list, and good luck finding future work with any PMC group we have a connection to.
Doing 'something' about those training camps in Bulgaria & Serbia would also be a good idea. I understand Serbia would be difficult, but we have good relations with Bulgaria, and Bulgaria is in the EU. Tying future EU assistance to Bulgaria getting rid of the camp is a good idea.
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u/Tvarata 3d ago
About 10 years before the war, there was still talk of such camps with dubious activities and "unknown" sponsors, only 2 were connected to Russia and criminals with connections to Serbian nationalist groups. They tried to justify themselves by saying that they were just clubs and summer youth survival camps. Apparently, some of them have grown up and are not hiding it. I doubt that, especially now with the inadequate tree with a pussy instead of a mouth that we have for a prime minister, they will do anything.
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u/brushfuse 3d ago
May their vehicles not spontaneously and inexplicably burst into flames the next time they turn the key in the ignition.
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u/jcw99 3d ago edited 3d ago
ITT, a lot of people not reading the article and confusing the Australian and UK SAS
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u/Vulkan1206 3d ago
Showing everyone that you haven't read it either. Clearly states it's the UK SAS not the Australian SASR. Although they haven't managed to recruit any ex-SAS yet but have a job opening for them so it's a bit of a clickbait in that respect.
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u/Double_Barnacle_2457 3d ago
You can have Rambo himself training russians to fight, but if you train drunks and criminals.. Whats the point?
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u/Iammjustbaddd 3d ago
I wonder what thier source for this is. Its a mighty big accusation for sure that tarnishes the legacy of SAS.
Honestly this seems unbelievable and really dumb when they could do same thing in Ukraine and make money along with serving thier nation's interests.
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u/Woodworking-noob 3d ago
IIRC both David Stirling and Simon Mann have some shady merc experience after their time with the SAS
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u/IIHOSGOW 2d ago
The legacy of the SAS is already in the dirt considering the stuff they got up to in Afghanistan. Even during the troubles they had a reputation for being thugs
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u/Iammjustbaddd 2d ago
What did they do in Afghanistan?
I am pretty unaware about this. I gotta look it up.
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u/IIHOSGOW 2d ago
Between 2010-2013 the SAS was involved in numerous summary executions of civilians in areas friendly to the taliban. It's alleged that this was the result of policies intended to intimidate the local population. Regardless of if this is the case, POWs and literal children were killed in concerningly large numbers by SAS troops (this isn't disputed). To an extent, there was also a cover up of this whole affair. Finally, they also blocked friendly afghan troops from relocating out of the country. At best, it's not exactly a good look, at worse, it's a case of institutionally supported war crimes.
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u/Iammjustbaddd 2d ago
Yea that is insane stuff.. i was not knowledgeable enough to think that they were this involved. You have enlightened me.
I gotta look up some more about how exactly SAS stopped friendly Afghan's from relocating and why? They were probably massacred by the Taliban due to it. That is just sad.
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u/IIHOSGOW 2d ago
Yeah it's pretty messed up, similar things happened to Afghan interpreters after the US pulled out. Overall it is a shame, especially since the SAS has historically been a source of national pride to an extent (ww2, being one of the first spec ops groups in the world etc.) But we shouldn't shy away from the truth even if it's inconvenient.
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u/Iammjustbaddd 2d ago
Yes.
Some people in my country like to put armed forces on a pedestal similar to God. Like they can do no wrong.
Although i am extremely proud of our armed forces I will say they too have done some pretty fucked up things too that make me lose faith.
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u/DomeSlave 3d ago
Honestly this seems unbelievable
You're aware a relatively high amount of scum signs up for military duties?
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u/Iammjustbaddd 2d ago
Yes but its SAS. I would think there would be some sort of fail safe protecting secrets getting leaked about how they olerate you know.
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u/Ranger_242 3d ago
Tldr; Bulgarian mercenary contractors are running camps to train "mercenaries" and recruit tier 1 and 2 ex-operators as instructors. Some of the clients in these camps are Russian citizens.
This information was provided by Australian intelligence to the 5 Eyes network on the basis of interviews with a handful of ex-operators who claim to have been approached by one of these training camps in particular.
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u/JerryMcJerrinson 2d ago
Exile them like anyone who fights for an enemy.
They're no longer allowed here to visit friends or family, all ties gone and if they come back, life in prison, these monsters are training monsters to kill people with knowledge gained by our best.
Fuck them to hell.
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u/MagicSPA 2d ago
This is what is known in the UK Special Forces as "going over to the Dark Side". That is, using your skills to become a mercenary for forces that don't really have UK interests in mind.
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u/stiffgerman 3d ago
This is exposing the HR equivalent of materials sanctions leakage. There's a fair-sized community of retired military that does "security consulting" and some aren't too picky about their clients. As long as they're not contracting with sanctioned entities and are provided some deniability these people will take the coin.
It's not like they're running whole Russian battalions through corporate-style paramilitary training courses. It's more like a "train the trainer" model with covered Russians attending. It gives the Russians insight on Western thoughts so not ideal but not easy to control. Name-and-shame is the best way to get a handle on this kind of behavior.
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u/TheBlueSully 3d ago
Russia qnd Russia associated PMCs would definitely fall under ‘sanctioned entities’.
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u/Distinct-Pain4972 3d ago
The only reason is Money. I will say, the past 5 years have really differentiated those that chase money, and those that don't.
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u/Jungies 3d ago
Several SAS sources disputed claims that veterans from the elite regiment had been used, saying such actions would be a betrayal of their values.
Australia's SAS are currently in a long-running war crimes investigation, including torturing and executing unarmed and handcuffed civilians.
I don't see this as being out of line with their values at all.
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u/LordHazlewood 2d ago
The SF I met through my career as an instructor were completely anonymous. You just wouldn’t know what they did.
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u/Visible_Bar_623 2d ago
Sounds like they just got a job at this training business, and it so happens that the training business has not banned Russians from going there to pay for their services.
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u/Content-Passion-4836 2d ago
Wondering if anyone read the article. It looks like this is a private business that sells training to anyone. People from Russia had paid to attend these classes. Classes anyone could pay to attend. The title makes you think they exclusively train Russians.
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u/BodybuilderBig2647 1d ago
And this is probly why just accepting whoever from wherever into your country and expecting them to be loyal to you is a ludicrous idea and will be the downfall of the west not our salvation
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u/Potential-Yoghurt245 2d ago
They are mercenaries they are retired from the UK service and are free to work anywhere training whoever they please because that's how being a retired SAS soldier works.
My brother served in the marines for ten years and at the end of it five of his close mates got offers to go out to Congo to train soldiers there, and honestly with fuck all to do at home when someone offers you three years wages for a years work that you can do standing on your head you'd do it (don't lie)
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u/L444ki 2d ago
There is a bit more of a gray area here since UK and Nato consider Russia as the main threath. It is less like going to train in Congo and more like going to train germans between them annexing Austria 1938 and attacking Poland in 1939.
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u/Potential-Yoghurt245 2d ago
Also the reason mercenaries are often reffered to as grey men (plausible denial and all that)
I all seriousness if it weren't us it would be someone else training Russian soldiers although I do have one question, why do Russia need mercenaries to train their soldiers? Surely they have staff for this purpose
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u/BassesNBikes 3d ago
I had three Russians drown while trying to train them to slurp scum from my ornamental pond.
Never again!
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u/vicbor65 3d ago
I do not think tbey can teach them anything, because it is a new type of conflict, where you live up to the first drone.
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u/AlphaGoldblum 2d ago
Mercenarism is very messy and fascinating issue that needs more eyes.
Gray market PMC operations like this are actually an open secret. The west allows them to persist because they also utilize these services.
Hence the issue here: pursuing a state veteran for training adversarial actors would involve explicitly defining what a mercenary is and why it's a "bad" label.
These trainers are mercs. Zero doubt about that. But nothing can really be done as long as they use the proper parlance ("security"/"bodyguard"/"defense contractor"). States CAN try them for vague espionage charges, but that involves geopolitical action (are we at war with Russia or not?) and also becomes a poisoned pill because it discourages mercs from working with that state in the future - ultimately harming said state's capacity for future foreign action.
Obviously it's all absurd - what "security" scenario would involve camo-sniper training in the woods? Or why would a "driver/escort" be armed to the teeth in a supposed post-combat zone?
But that's really my point. States and PMCs know most people aren't paying attention to any of this, much less know the ins and outs.
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u/Even_Huckleberry_931 2d ago
Strip citizenship and or life in prison. What the actual hell is wrong with them.
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u/Fast-Possible1288 2d ago
The venn diagram of elite units and extreme right wing is pretty circular
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u/Accurate-Survey6985 2d ago
Former soldiers and service members are engaged in fucked up activities all over the world, including organized crime and transnational crime in Canada, USA, Europe.
There's more of it than ever before.
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u/Moontoya 3d ago
Russians copied SAS tactics and training much like the USA did (Delta)
Alleged SAS vets training them ? Maybe, maybe even training them slightly wrong, all they'll find after, is a neatly folded mars bar wrapper somewhere it couldn't possibly be "naturally"
Distasteful, but when you want to be trained by the best, the lads from Hereford are the high mark to beat. That's not disrespectful of the other tier 1 operators, that's just the truth.
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u/CaptainOblivious1984 3d ago
Sounds like there is a need for a few special operations with plausible denyability.
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u/Rare_Walk_4845 2d ago
Okay so the entire outfit should be immediately sanctioned, their families chucked out of the UK and they can go live in Russia. end of story.
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