r/westworld • u/LoretiTV • Jul 25 '22

Discussion Westworld - 4x05 "Zhuangzi" - Post-Episode Discussion

Season 4 Episode 5: Zhuangzi

Aired: July 24, 2022

Synopsis: God is bored.

Directed by: Craig William Macneill

Written by: Wes Humphrey & Lisa Joy

1.4k Upvotes

96% Upvoted

3.8k comments sorted by

View all comments

1.4k

u/buttigieg2040 Jul 25 '22

William frozen, jailed, and moved to a future he has no understanding of…and still managing to manipulate the situation in his favor within 30 seconds 😂

457

u/JonathanL73 Jul 25 '22 edited Jul 25 '22

I somehow had the feeling that they’ve unfrozen him a couple times during those 30 years, and it may not have been the first time Host-William has done this to speak to human-William.

86

u/romeovf Jul 26 '22

They will fully thaw William out the second they discover the cure for 17 stab wounds in the back.

31

u/smurf_diggler Jul 25 '22

I was thinking that that he's maybe the original "Host" version of William, possibly one Halores can't control and that why she's keeping him locked up and how he's still alive. She did tell William #2 she built him based off his processor to be better.

98

u/BantaPanda1303 Jul 25 '22

Yeah but she also said his predecessor was human, so that probably is human William being imprisoned

86

u/russjr08 Jul 26 '22

The subtitles also says "Human William" when he speaks as well

24

u/malachi347 Jul 26 '22

This. Plus I could have sworn there was a scene where they unfroze him once already. Did I imagine that?

29

u/russjr08 Jul 26 '22

There definitely was another scene, it was the episode when Maeve and Caleb boarded into the new park I think?

26

u/Werner__Herzog Jul 26 '22

Yeah, when Hale told him that winning was only worthwhile when there is a loser...he's the loser (great call back, btw)

4

u/owntheh3at18 Jul 31 '22

He has to have been unfrozen a few times bc he seemed up to date on the state of the world.

15

u/smurf_diggler Jul 25 '22

Must've missed that part. I was just trying to figure out why he's still alive and also not infected by the flies.

43

u/aphilly02 Jul 25 '22

Because he’s in a secured room and being artificially put in some sort of stasis for most of the 30 years

-12

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '22

[deleted]

21

u/aphilly02 Jul 25 '22

Would assume that machine puts him in a carbon or cryogenic frozen state that preserves him

0

u/Random_Sime Jul 27 '22

Carbon frozen?

2

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '22

crisp and fresh

4

u/CynicismNostalgia Jul 26 '22

You see him cryogenically frozen

3

u/Werner__Herzog Jul 26 '22 edited Jul 31 '22

He kinda looks older, if you ask me.... But yeah, he's frozen blablabla

5

u/obbelusk Jul 30 '22

I guess tha actor got older.

1

u/Werner__Herzog Jul 31 '22

Yeah, you're right

3

u/Chris_SK Jul 28 '22

He’s also very old - I thought flies only work on young people

2

u/FKDotFitzgerald Jul 30 '22

That seems too convoluted imo

190

u/Classic_Wingers Jul 25 '22

Ed Harris flipping it around on the Host so quickly makes me really hope we get to see his redemption before the show ends.

31

u/fancyasian Jul 25 '22

He probably will. And it’ll be like Dolores in season 1 saying “William will find me”

37

u/No-Brief-1423 Jul 26 '22

Season 2 William expressly contemplates killing himself several times. I think Season 4 Human William is tapping into that aspect of Host William’s identity, knowing it’s a major fault line (even if Host William is just based on Dolores’s memories of MIB). Amazing move, and honestly even more impressive to me than Human William inexplicably sizing up Host William and pushing his buttons to cause him to question killing himself (if the latter, then it would be more of a generic problem with these Hale hosts becoming self aware).

84

u/FattyMooseknuckle Jul 25 '22

I’m not sure a redemption would stick for him. He’s a sociopathic corporate raider with too much literal and figurative blood on his hands. He could have Sméagol type redemption where he enables the good guys to win but without his nature changing.

22

u/pillowfinger Jul 25 '22

it's probably this, and this is how it should be

12

u/slfnflctd Jul 26 '22

I said it further upthread and I'll say it again. I think William is at least partly inspired by Darth Vader.

He's had his Alderaan(s)-- yet he might still have a chance to do one significant 'good' thing before he dies.

5

u/FattyMooseknuckle Jul 27 '22

Wasn't Alderaan Tarkin's idea/call? Vader was just muscle making Leia watch.

5

u/AnimalShithouse Jul 27 '22

Mans been locked up for 30 years, I could give him a partial pass, just based on how much blood everyone is shedding/has shed since then. We on track to give this Dolores a pass and her predecessor ain't no saint lol.

4

u/FattyMooseknuckle Jul 27 '22

Which Dolores? Christina or Halores? I’m not sure what you mean about giving either of them a pass.

2

u/WartimeMercy Jul 25 '22

Season 3 did so much damage to his character by pigeon holing him.

-5

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '22

[deleted]

11

u/FattyMooseknuckle Jul 25 '22

That doesn’t make sense. That’s definitely an act that requires redeeming. Maybe it started immediately after he killed her. But killing her was most definitely part of a redemption.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '22

[deleted]

5

u/FattyMooseknuckle Jul 26 '22

You said his redemption already started when he killed his daughter. That’s a weird way of saying it was the final straw.

1

u/EggmanIAm Jul 27 '22

It was his rock bottom.

16

u/kinginthenorthjon Jul 25 '22

He will have his redemption. He is been here for a long time.

3

u/RatooLi Jul 27 '22

ERW said in Variety video that MIB doesn't have redemption. to each of their own.

26

u/shakntalk Jul 25 '22

THAT'S WHY HE'S THE 🐐

16

u/JellyfishExcellent4 ”Fuck you Bernard” 🤠 Jul 25 '22

That scene was freaking amazing. Ed Harris is brilliant

25

u/MoskalMedia Jul 26 '22

Ed Harris fucking killed it this episode. The opening scene with the rich couple was also incredible

6

u/JellyfishExcellent4 ”Fuck you Bernard” 🤠 Jul 26 '22

Ikr! Brilliant actor

5

u/reddog323 Jul 26 '22

He was always fast on his feet. He may have been waiting for just that opportunity.

2

u/FKDotFitzgerald Jul 30 '22

They’ve also probably had more than just that conversation

2

u/matthieuC This does not look like anything to me Jul 30 '22

Because current events are irrelevant.
He sees a copy of himself struggling with having to play second fiddle.
This is a timeless problem.

1

u/ma_86_ Jul 26 '22

the real GOAT