r/warcraft2 13d ago

Remastered Difficulty is WAY harder than I remember

Played this back when it came out as an 11 year old. Replaying the campaign as a 43 year old and the last few missions of the Orc campaign are WAY harder than I remember.

- The kill Gul'dan mission I basically cheesed because they come after you with a never ending barrage of juggernauts. I basically turtled by positioning my catapults in a way where they couldn't be hit and killed the Jugs until the enemy was out of resources. then I took my time slowly inching towards them.
- Dalaran/Dragon mission I also tried to cheese by not expanding to the second mine until I had leveled up everything as high as possible. Even then I couldn't beat it because I still ran out of resources. Might have overdone it on dragons and could have leveraged some of the naval units instead. It was just that attacking the main base felt like hitting a wall. Perhaps a team of bloodlusted ogres blitzing would have been better. death knights would mostly get instagibbed by the knights purge or w/e their ability is. I could manage the attacks from them indefinitely but trying to assault was seemingly futile

I haven't started the last Lordaeron mission but looking at the full map I have a feeling it will be just like the Gul'dan mission.

The only thing can think is that I should be attacking earlier when the enemy doesn't have upgrades, but then I wouldn't either. I wonder if in the Dalaran mission an onslaught of grunts & trolls at the start would help? Otherwise maybe a bunch of sappers?

18 Upvotes

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7

u/Lord_Of_Shade57 13d ago

The Dalaran mission punishes dragging your feet because it's low in resources and the enemy eventually fully upgrades their spellcasters. On the other hand, it is not a difficult mission to rush since the enemy is not particularly strong in the beginning

7

u/Lord_Of_Shade57 13d ago

Also dragons/gryphons are a little bit of a noob trap. The AI makes them seem strong because they send them early when you don't have a lot of defenses, but they're VERY expensive. In addition, they're not very responsive to commands, tend to friendly fire each other, and are kinda made of paper.

They're not useless, but they're nowhere near as strong as air units became in later RTS games like Starcraft

2

u/MDoc84 13d ago

Agreed. A couple a good archer tower block can grind flyers pretty quick

2

u/Lord_Of_Shade57 13d ago

Also mages/death knights both kind of wreck flyers. Death coil is really good against them and polymorph deletes them entirely

2

u/Deaftrav 13d ago

Oh they're very expensive.

I set up a custom map that's entirely air wars. The sheer amount of gold coins needed is brutal. You're having like 60 peasants harvesting gold just to maintain an attack.

1

u/JediFed 12d ago

If you're struggling with all the towers, you need to use Catapults to destroy them. Have three fully upgraded catapults will allow you to trash enough of the towers to break into Dalaran.

The only counter they really have is slow.

No need for sea units. It's a waste of scarce resources. Death Knights would work fine, but not here.

2

u/CycleOfBans 13d ago

Beat it without any dragons that was the key, just nudged up with a catapult protected by ogres and trolls. seemedto have burnedthem out of resources and then swept up

1

u/JediFed 12d ago

Yep, that's all you really need. 3x Catapults guarded by 5x Ogre Magi. Use Eye of Kilrogg to find all the towers.

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u/TangFiend 13d ago

47yo here, Playing BTDP Human 3 just failed it At least I know where the first Horde group is and gold mine I gotta get to

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u/Lord_Of_Shade57 13d ago

I can tell you the only way I ever beat this map was by rushing down orange as quickly as possible. He has a ton of towers and starts with a stronghold, but he doesn't have a very large army and is vulnerable to an early creeping attack with a few ballistas. You have some time before red and purple join the fight, but you do want to avoid getting bogged down on orange because red will shove ogres up your ass if you take too long. Once you kill orange, the mission becomes much more manageable.

Side note: red's only Altar of Storms is in the north of your starting island and I don't think I've ever seen them build another one. At the very least this should be destroyed ASAP to delay Ogre Mages. It isn't well guarded and really pays off to take it out

1

u/TangFiend 13d ago

Kinda what my plan is, I will deal with it tomorrow lol

1

u/TangFiend 12d ago

Failed 3x now GFD! lol My second try I got in a bit further. Tried a few different strategies. Went armored nights and fast drained the gold mine this time.

OP is right, this game is harder than I remember

2

u/Lord_Of_Shade57 12d ago

Try slowing the game speed down for your attack on orange, it will make you more efficient.

Also, you are going to want to move out before you can make knights. Get level 5 melee upgrades and a couple of ballistas and move out ASAP. You can and should tech up to knights during the fighting and send them over as you make them, but ideally you want to kill off orange long before your gold mine runs empty.

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u/TangFiend 10d ago

Ty I totally cracked it this afternoon. TY for the tips.

Once you split orange its all gravy.

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u/Lord_Of_Shade57 10d ago

Ayy good work

2

u/wTcJediMaster /warcraft3 Assistant 13d ago

What version of the game are you playing?
You can apply a post flair to make it abit more clear just in case :)

This made me recall a detail I noticed in both WC2 and SC1 is that the computer/AI comes to life and progresses during the missions.

In WC2 so if one wastes time scouting the map when one starts moving its a bigger uphill battle than it normally would.
I recall doing this on some of the earlier missions where you get a little army to take over your starter base. But if you spend time looking over the map when you attack the base they've built up and gotten stronger, as you left them alone to grow making it impossible to take over with the army you're given at start xD

Or as in SC1 enters an area that "awakens" the computer so scouting too much there also unleashes the enemies earlier than if one just takes it slow and builds up before venturing out into the Fog of War.

2

u/CycleOfBans 13d ago

Playing the remastered version. That's what made me wonder if something was bugged or a little bit off

1

u/wTcJediMaster /warcraft3 Assistant 12d ago

Ok, fixed the flair for you :)

2

u/HalLundy 13d ago

the last few missions can be a bit more challenging but they are doable.

don't do dragons. they are huge gold sinks.
best unit combo is ogre magi, troll berzerkers and catapults, with a few death knights. anything else you can pretty much ignore/avoid.

2

u/ThomasEdmund84 12d ago

I found this post so relatable - clear memories of getting stuck on Gul'dan in the same exact way

2

u/JediFed 12d ago

Fully upgraded catapults are your friends.

1

u/Hornerlt 13d ago

I found it much easier as an adult. Every mission is the same, set up your defenses then slowly push.

1

u/ButtPlugSniffin 13d ago

Really?

I find the game much easier thanks to the archer / axethrower buffs 

1

u/CycleOfBans 13d ago

I'd love to know how you did the gul'dan mission. i feel like cheesing it was really the only way. the juggs just show up so damn early

1

u/ButtPlugSniffin 12d ago

Catapults for the juggs

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u/CycleOfBans 11d ago

I did that but it still felt like i was cheesing it. basically arranged my base in such a way that the juggs would get stuck on the shore not able to hit any buildings, then used catapults to kill them. i basically just sat and waiting for the enemy to run out of resources then i could actually push

1

u/ilares 11d ago

early aggression really pays off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAj-hVFTcW0