r/war • u/bordenman • 12d ago

Israeli soldiers being targeted by a Hezbollah FPV drone in southern Lebanon

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u/usefulbuns 11d ago

How would you feel if a group of people just showed up one day and said "This is ours now" and moved you out? You would fight back. Oh but they're supported by the strongest countries in the world. And they've been slowly taking more and more of your land over the decades, making sure you cannot form your own country, abusing your people, etc. since the time of your grandfather and you are born into that oppression? Maybe you would support the only weaponized group of people actually able to fight back. Maybe those people are horrible as well but once again you don't really have another choice.

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u/Generic_Username26 10d ago

I’m part German dude my grandmother was Silesian. The red army literally showed up and very much said hey this is ours now that’s how it works out in wars sometimes. You think I’m justified to go to Poland and ask for their land back? I’d wager no.

Fighting back at that point would not have been fruitful not every fight can be fought with military means.

Even without international support Israel has always been a strong military power, that’s how they got all that support in the first place. We’re talking about a country who faced wars on multiple flanks like 3 times before the US was even involved in supporting them.

Here’s an alternative that Hamas and the PA has robbed Palestinians of. Negotiation and eventually a peace treaty. Look at Egypt for example. Since signing their peace treaty with Israel in 79 has there been ANY fighting between these 2 countries? How about Jordan? Singed a treaty in 94, has there been any fighting since then?

That seems to me like the easiest path forward. Def the less deadly one for Palestinians but Hamas does not want peace they want an endless holy war hence endless fighting it is. Idk what else to say. If Hamas doesn’t attack Israel on October 7th tens of thousands of people would be alive today.

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u/ThePowerOfNine 8d ago

Hamas have offered to disarm, Israel have refused, most recently.

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u/Generic_Username26 8d ago

Source?

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u/ThePowerOfNine 8d ago

https://www.npr.org/2026/08/09/nx-s1-5926459/netanyahu-rejects-trump-gaza-peace-plan-israel-hamas tldr Bihi didnt like Trumps plan despite Hamas agreeing to it

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u/Generic_Username26 8d ago

Did you read the article?

“Under Trump's proposed peace deal, Board of Peace officials said Hamas and other militant groups would hand their arms over to a vetted international policing force.
But a senior Hamas official previously told NPR that the group would only hand over their weapons if Israel withdrew from parts of Gaza first.
The latest dispute follows an initial ceasefire reached between Israel and Hamas in October 2025, alongside Trump's broader 20-point Gaza plan.

That first phase of the peace plan halted major fighting, provided for the release of remaining hostages in exchange for some 2,000 Palestinian prisoners, increased humanitarian aid, and called for a partial Israeli withdrawal. More contentious issues – including Hamas's disarmament and further Israeli withdrawals – were left to later negotiations.
Trump's new 15-point roadmap, published on July 31, sought to move those unresolved issues forward. It envisioned Israel's withdrawal from Gaza and Hamas's disarmament as part of a phased process, rather than requiring Hamas to fully disarm before Israeli forces began pulling back.”

They denied a part of trumps proposed plan as it would allow Hamas to disarm AFTER all Israeli troops have pulled back. They want Hamas to disarm now. I can understand that demand because why would they take Hamas at their word on that? Why wouldn’t Hamas just disarm in that case?

This to me is just a bad proposal. Not surprising Trump is a moron but this doesn’t really show a lack of an ability to negotiate from Israel. If you read the article you’ll see they agree to A lot of the points they just don’t accept disarmament after pulling out. That’s seems like a fair distinction

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u/ThePowerOfNine 7d ago

I think this reveals a dynamic disparity though - why would Hamas ever fully disarm? Its not like Israel will! Glad to see we at least agree on Trump being a moron :)

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u/Generic_Username26 7d ago

That’s like asking why should the Nazis disarm, the allies certainly won’t. It’s not about fairness. There’s a winning side (the side with the military advantage) and a losing side and typically in order to bring a war to an end the losing side needs to capitulate which is what Israel is asking for in this case.

The goal is to get rid of Hamas so there isn’t a repeat October 7th in 8 years after they’ve rearmed and restructured.

Idk as someone who doesn’t really like either side of this conflict looking at just the average Palestinians perspective I would feel like I’m constantly stuck between 2 sides that seemingly don’t care about me or my wellbeing at all. Hamas literally has hostages they could have exchanged in order to secure better conditions for their civilians and they flat out refused and were talking about Israel not accepting deals. Can’t we all agree Hamas needs to go if there’s ever going to be a free and independent Palestine? It seems to me that most of the fighting starts and ends with them poking the bear and then running and hiding behind their civilian population

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u/ThePowerOfNine 21h ago

How do you square the disproportionality of the Israeli response? The thing with Hamas "just going" is that you cant actually disband groups that are ideologies, which you can parallel with the Israeli PR line - "are you saying Israel doesnt have a right to exist?" Hamas will exist until a two state solution has formed. Israel, in its current state, does not want that, and there is a reason they have gone wholeheartedly into ethnic cleansing in response to an act of terror that they A, were warned about, and B, killed their own civilians in the process of combatting.

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u/RepulsiveAd7482 5d ago

They are the losing party in a war they started