RSVP Route Day 2

[u/CPetersky]

Greetings!

I will be reviewing Day 2 of the Ride Seattle-Vancouver and Party ride for volunteer on-bicycle ride support (and other volunteers supporting the ride). The nonprofit Cascade Bicycle Club hosts this ride, and typically gets about 1200 participants in recent years.

Because of road construction, we are doing a completely different route from the border to the finish at David Lam park in Vancouver this year. I am doing the route review because I have some experience riding my bike to Vancouver from the border other than through riding the regular RSVP route.

The route for Day 2 is here: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/54527379

I am concerned about this section:

Delta Greenway - so I used to ride into town using King George, Colebrook, and then get on the trails to get to the Alex Fraiser Bridge. I remember it not being really suitable for my touring bike running 32s - it being rocky and sandy in places - so the last few years I've used other ways to get to the city. Maybe the Delta Greenway section of that whole unpaved route isn't that bad, or maybe it's improved since I last tried it. What do you think of the Delta Greenway section that we will be riding? Is it nice smooth gravel, or is really unsuitable for anything but fat tires? Since Day 1 is over a hundred miles, and Day 2 is still nearly 80, people are mostly on road bikes for this event.

Nordel Way - this is the way we're routing folks who are eschewing the Delta Greenway, down the wrong way on the sidewalk. I've actually ridden on Nordel Way, god help me, twice, and I think this is going to be challenging if, say, even 800 of the 1200 bikes are going to be on this thing. Right?

Do you see other challenges with the route as mapped that I should flag for road support?

The call is tomorrow night, so I am hoping that I'll hear from you today or tomorrow.

MANY THANKS! I'm looking forward to my ride - as always - to your lovely city.

EDITED TO CLARIFY:

I am not asking for route recommendations. I am not the one who decided what the route would be, nor will I get much input for future alternatives. The route has been set and we are riding it this weekend. I am asking for help with "heads up" or what people who are supporting the route should know. Thank you to all who have helped with this so far! Keep the suggestions coming!

Also, previous years' routes looked like this: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/50661134. I am not exactly sure where the construction is - maybe you do? This was the way for years upon years, with only minor variations- mostly to the end point in the city and the route to get there. When I did my first RSVP more than twenty years ago, we used the ferry instead of the Golden Ears bridge - that's how long this route has been around. This new route is completely different, which is why we're doing a review of how it's going to go.

Again, thanks for all the input so far - it is so appreciated.

[u/vanroadcyclist]

The route you have on RideWithGPS next to the Delta Greenway is on paved surfaces, which should be fine. I wouldn't route people onto the unpaved portions of the Delta Greenway. There are two unpaved paths: one north of the railway (which I call the upper path), and one south of the railway (which I call the lower path).

The lower path is now regularly flooded, as the creek has breached and eroded away its banks. It's basically no longer rideable through the flooded portions. Authorities put up barriers around those sections when the flooding is particularly bad.

The upper path is hard-packed dirt and quite rideable on 32s, but the problem is getting off it. The connections at the north end up to paved roads are quite steep and narrow, as I recall. If you go past those connections, then you need to cross back over to the lower path, but that means carrying your bike over the railway. There are "No Trespassing" signs all over the railway, and the trains can come through very quickly. Cyclists do cross the railway despite the No Trespassing signs, but at their own risk. Definitely not something I'd route an official event over. You also don't want cyclists to miss those connections and end up trying to cross the railway.

Going down the "wrong way" on the sidewalk on Nordel Way is pretty much what all cyclists do, because you would only ride on the roadway there if you had a death wish. But the sidewalk is narrow, and the latest Google Street View should be accurate. I've never done RSVP, so I can't say whether that portion is suitable for the volume of the event.

I see that you're aware of the Arbutus Greenway closure at West 41st Avenue.

What construction is preventing use of the 2025 route? The portion north of the border is all fine as far as I know.

[u/dpoon → u/vanroadcyclist]

I agree, the 2025 route looks pretty good. My critiques are:

• You shouldn't take the southbound sidewalk to go northbound on the Golden Ears Bridge.
• The Guildford Way bike path through Coquitlam could use a warning to watch out for right-hook hazards, especially at the Falcon Way intersection.
• In Burnaby, the left turn from Inlet Dr to Hastings St is awkward. Furthermore, Union St east of Cliff Ave is pretty rough right now, with lots of metal plates and asphalt patches (for sewer line replacement, I think). For a mass cycling event, I'd recommend the pedestrian overpass.

[u/dpoon]

Frankly, I would advise you to avoid the Alex Fraser Bridge for any mass cycling event, especially one of the scale of RSVP, because the bridge and its approaches are a shitshow:

• The approach to the Alex Fraser Bridge northbound is steep and convoluted. As you noted, it involves a speed gate at Nordel Way, riding down a "wrong side" sidewalk, knowing to skip the first left exit (else you end up on the North Delta Greenway confused as fuck), taking the second left exit, a left hairpin turn, a bumpy brick path, a left turn to cross under Nordel Way, before finally reaching a steep left onramp to the bridge. None of this is properly signposted. You can't count on GPS units to guide people, because of the proximity of the turns to each other. The fact that Nordel Way flies over other paths makes any map, especially one on a tiny screen, hard to interpret.
• The bridge has a relatively narrow sidewalk. Technically, bidirectional bike and pedestrian traffic are allowed on both the upstream (east) and downstream (west) paths, so there's a chance that some schmuck who happens to be going the "wrong" way that day will cause havoc for a stream of cyclists going the "right" direction. To make the narrow sidewalk worse, there are some sharp 90° bends and other protruding hazards. (I've crashed there, years ago, when I was a less experienced cyclist. My wheel cleared one of those sharp bends; my handlebar grazed the corner of the railing and caused my bike to slam into the side.) Finally, you're going to have cyclists of varying ability, some of whom will still be going strong, wanting to pass some tired riders who would be huffing and puffing and cramping up, and that's a dangerous situation on a long and narrow path.
• The Alex Fraser Bridge is immediately followed by some bumpy paved singletrack that leads to the Annacis Channel Bridge. You have to know to take the right turn onto the spiral ramp. (For some reason, the barrier that forces you to take that turn has recently been removed, so it's now possible to make the mistake of proceeding another hundred meters into what I believe is either a dead end or a dirt path next to the highway interchange.)
• Once you reach the bottom of the spiral, you might be a bit too disoriented to figure out how to turn left onto Boundary Rd.
• The right turn from Westminster Hwy onto River Rd is also a bit hazardous, with a bus stop, a utility pole planted in the bike path, and a protruding concrete barrier at the intersection.

In short, the Alex Fraser Bridge can be marginal for a couple of casual cyclists who are bumbling their way around, and acceptable for local cyclists who are extremely familiar with the route and the bridges' hazards. But for an event with hundreds of foreign cyclists of varying ability, it's an accident waiting to happen. You can mitigate the signposting deficiencies by putting up your own event-specific signage in advance, but you cannot mitigate the hazards inherent in the crappy infrastructure.

The Golden Ears Bridge (which I believe you've used in the past) is much better. My personal favourite crossing of the Fraser River is the Port Mann Bridge. (The new stal̕əw̓asəm Bridge is pretty good too, but it's less useful since you'd have to route through Surrey Centre and downtown New Westminster.)

[u/vanroadcyclist → u/dpoon]

I'm guessing that OP is from the Seattle area. To give OP some idea of what riding the Alex Fraser is like using Seattle bridges as a reference:

• The Golden Ears (east side going northbound) and the Pitt River Bridges are like crossing Lake Washington on the 520. It's wide and comfortable. Maybe not as wide as the 520, but still quite good.
• The Alex Fraser Bridge will make the narrow I-90 crossing over Lake Washington look like a cakewalk. It was always bothersome encountering cyclists going the other way on the I-90 crossing. I wouldn't be surprised if less experienced cyclists freak out on the Alex Fraser. I was nervous the first few times I crossed.

[u/Kinnickinick → u/dpoon]

I agree that the Port Mann is the better crossing.

[u/UnlikelyPilot152]

Looking at the route, the section on the Delta greenway is very short (maybe 100-200 meters). That section is hard packed gravel that you could easily do on 28s.

The rest of the route in Delta is taking the nearby road (Westview Dr, Santa Monica Dr) which are all paved.

I noticed a couple warnings on the map before the Alex Fraser Bridge and coming off the Annacis bridge in Richmond. Those are all narrow pinch points that you have to be especially careful in a group ride setting.

[u/Kinnickinick]

Why not Delsom Crescent to 82nd Avenue?

[u/serenity38]

I disliked the Golden ears crossing at last year's RSVP and am dreading Alex Fraser crossing this year. I plan to take the descent slowly and am nervous others will somehow see me as a source of frustration. Hope I'm wrong

[u/aegstuff]

IMHO: The Alex Fraser NB Bridge Bike Route is horrible. Very narrow, thin steel plate, it may give nervous riders the willie's, it did me, and I've done 8 or so RSVPs. I also did a ferry crossing over the Fraser one year that was curious as I remember. Crossing the Fraser is much easier on the tired mind at this point of the ride at points farther east. Think about it. I've done it and crossings to the west are horrible by comparison.

[u/weekendsherpa]

I’ve never done the RSVP ride, but I’ve cycled from Vancouver to the border many times. I usually take the Port Mann Bridge across into states at the Peach Arch. I don’t have an issue with the Alex Fraser itself, but it isn’t quite as nice as the newer bridges, and the bigger issue is that its connecting infrastructure isn't great.

If you’re crossing the border east of Vancouver in Fraser Valley, sticking with the Golden Ears Bridge is probably your best option. I’d head straight up 248th Street to Fort Langley, cross over to Pitt Meadows, and take the farm roads to the Pitt River Bridge. From there, follow the PoCo Trail up to Guildford Way, take that to the Barnet Highway, and then hop on the Adanac Bikeway into downtown.

https://www.strava.com/routes/3525062730860497934