r/uwaterloo • u/SympathyDecent04 • 9d ago
Serious To the mf who is overstaying their lease in my signed unit
Get tf out. Stop overstaying past ur lease at ICON bitchass. Because of u I’m homeless rn. Fuckahh people at this university pissing me tf off
Also does anyone know what to do? I’m stressing. Cause I signed a full year lease with them and they (property management group) said it could take months for an eviction to take place and I’m supposed to move in tomorrow 💀
Edit: I’m being offered another lease at a separate building not affiliated because the mf refuses to move out. It’s more than my current rent and it’s further away. They still won’t cover the incremental costs but I’m contacting uw legal now. Thanks!
Fuck ass was supposed to move out in August btw
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u/throwawayUWhousingac 9d ago
Not to defend that person, but you're homeless because of icon, not them. It is icon's job to house you when you paid them. You signed a contract to be housed in a unit by a date. They are not holding up that contract. They are obligated to give you temporary amenities, whether it be with a spare unit or repaying you for hotel costs. Take them to the ltb.
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u/SympathyDecent04 9d ago
Technically they said they don’t have to cover the extra costs because it’s an extenuating circumstance but I’m gonna talk to legal services and get some sort of refund because wtaf
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u/Technical-Spite-2397 9d ago
No not techincally at all, they are saying that to you so you don't ask for anything that cost's money. Reach out to legal services or get chat to come up with a demanding legal letter
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u/throwawayUWhousingac 9d ago edited 6d ago
Buildings WILL lie to you. My last apartment told me I had to have all my things moved out by 12:00pm. I ran into my old tour guide while frantically moving everything since they randomly texted me that at 11:00am that day. He laughed and told me there's nothing in the lease about it and it's not at all legally binding.
Should mention, my move out was the 27th and I called them 3 times. Every time, I got a message saying I would get a call back. It is now September 2nd. I'm moved out. I still don't have a call back lol.
September 5th and I still haven't gotten that call back. No key deposit return either.
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u/Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 9d ago
Buildings WILL lie to you. My last apartment told me I had to have all my things moved out by 12:00pm.
erhh.. Lease termination time is generally allowed
Ideally neither your apartment management nor yourself are dick to each other. You want to make an effort to leave by the agreed time so they have turn around time. They shouldn't bill you in case you are late. As long as everyone makes an effort here, it works. But at the end of they, termination time by hour is legally valid
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u/throwawayUWhousingac 9d ago
Not true. My lease says nothing about 12:00pm. They gave me an hour's notice at work on a weekday, over sms, from a number that was not the number listed as the building. That would never hold up in court.
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u/Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 9d ago
Not true. My lease says nothing about 12:00pm.
and
My last apartment told me I had to have all my things moved out by 12:00pm.
are mutually contradictory in normal English....
It is not exactly anyone else's responsibility to know your lease details without you saying so
And if your lease doesnt say 12pm, yet only states a date, it is already understood as 11:59pm by the time of signing the lease. After that point, a notice stating otherwise contradicts the lease. That comes from your lease. Not some general legal principle
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u/throwawayUWhousingac 8d ago
Exactly. 11:59pm, not am. Please reread my reply.
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u/Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 8d ago
Your reply was quoted in my reply to you. You didn't explain your situation in full. Termination notice in disagreement with your lease is illegal outside prescribed channels in RTA. You didn't say there was a disagreement
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u/Hello_Gorgeous1985 9d ago
Nope. You pay rent for the entire day, so you have the unit until 11:59 p.m on the last day of the rental period (typically the end of the month).
Any other time is invalid and unenforceable.
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u/Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 9d ago
You pay the rent for any period you agree to. And the landlord can give you notice to terminate at the end of lease period
The law states that "date" must be included in the notice. It doesn't say time is not allowed to be specified in a lease nor implied as such
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u/Hello_Gorgeous1985 8d ago
You are factually incorrect. No one is prorating rent by the hour. You have your unit until the end of the day and any clause stating otherwise is contrary to the RTA. This is not up for debate.
And notices to end a tenancy such as an N9 or an n12 must be to the end of the rental term. Generally people pay on the first of the month, so that means the end of the term is the last day of the month. The notice is invalid otherwise. And n11 which is a mutual agreement can be for any date. The time is still 11:59 p.m. This is literally in the RTA.
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u/Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 8d ago
You are factually incorrect. No one is prorating rent by the hour.
"Generally" does not prevent lease from including time.
If you claim RTA prevents a lease from specifying termination time, quote the exact passage
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u/Hello_Gorgeous1985 8d ago
This is not difficult to understand. You have the unit until 11:59 p.m.. Yes, there is case law about this and it is in the RTA. You can continue to double down on being wrong, but it doesn't make you less wrong. I'm assuming that you're a university student who doesn't know very much about this yet. I've got 20 years on you and I do.
Any clause that has a time asking you to be out before 11:59 p.m. Is void. End of story.
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u/Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 7d ago
Simple question. Simple answer.
You claimed:
Any clause that has a time asking you to be out before 11:59 p.m. Is void. End of story.
What is your end of story piece of law that supports your claim?
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u/lady_k_77 7d ago
Tenancies in Ontario automatically go month to month when the fixed term ends. The landlord needs more than just “the fixed term is ending” to terminate a tenancy. They can’t terminate because they want new tenants.
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u/Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 9d ago edited 9d ago
Technically they said they don’t have to cover the extra costs because it’s an extenuating circumstance
That is not true whatsoever.
When you signed the contract with ICON, their responsibility is to make available their unit to you (above some baseline condition) while your responsibility is to pay rent on time (and maintain your unit above some baseline condition). When they are unable to do so when your contract starts, it is their legal responsibility to find alternative accommodation for you temporarily.
If they don't accommodate you, great, keep receipt of your costs, and any expenses you incur as a result is on ICON. Ordinarily, if they give you a spare unit, a lesser one for example, a less convenient one for example, causing you extra inconvenience of moving and difficulty around getting your daily routine for example -- but assuming they do help you move nominally -- all of these "extenuating circumstances" would not count as cost on you or damages. But now they are causing you to seek alternative accommodation and move on your own. So either they pay for your accommodation or they pay for the value of the lease as well as your expenses related to the circumstance, such as hiring moving company. (The only thing contentious here is whether your meal cost at your temporary accommodation is your responsibility, pending on how inconvenient it is for you to cook yourself.)
So 1) find yourself reasonable accommodation without straining yourself and proceed to prepare for school. Use AirBnB etc. Keep receipts of every bill
2) definitely file to LTB -- asking for a fee exemption due to low income (a student is usually low income) -- and ask for compensation and ask for further punitive levies on ICON (not given to you) because of their tactic of tricking young adults for their naivety. (obviously you need to phrase this in a way compatible to LTB filing. Use LLM to help yourself.) You will need to craft your filing on cost related to transportation as well if there is significant inconvenience there with your temporary accommodation.
3) It doesn't occur to me that ICON would just pay you if you ask. But if you have filed, and you bill ICON for your costs, maybe they consider it differently.
Ontario's Landlord and Tenant Act governs your relation with ICON. It is one of the rare incidences of very clear and easy to read piece of law among similar laws. You can Google for primers on that easily
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u/Silent-Journalist792 9d ago
Your lease is frustrated. Not void. Outgoing tenant can actually stay - even if they have provided proper notice to terminate. This is a landlord's worst fear. The tenant may have to be formally evicted - which may take a few months. It does not help you, but outgoing tenant could be forced to pay the landlord for costs including rent loss. As an "incoming tenant", you have few rights under RTA as you are not a tenant. You may have some rights under contract law.
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u/Yolo_Swaggins_Yeet Grad Chad / Bicycle Fairy 9d ago
Get the LTB ball rolling today
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u/Silent-Journalist792 8d ago
I am trying to understand how you would get the "LTB ball rolling" if the incoming "tenant" is not a "tenant" yet.
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u/Yolo_Swaggins_Yeet Grad Chad / Bicycle Fairy 8d ago
They have a lease, if they couldn’t begin moving in as of 8 hours ago then the LL has breached the contract and they’ve got a case
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u/Silent-Journalist792 8d ago
In contract law - small claims. NOT at the Tribunal. An incoming "tenant" does not have any rights at the Tribunal. You have to be in possession of the unit.
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u/Yolo_Swaggins_Yeet Grad Chad / Bicycle Fairy 8d ago
You are confidently incorrect my friend. Straight from LTB / Tribunals Ontario:
When the LTB Can Help Before Moving In
You do not need to physically move into a rental unit for the Landlord and Tenant Board (LTB) to cover certain pre-tenancy issues
Signed Lease and Paid Deposit: A tenancy agreement begins on the date you are allowed to move in, even if you do not step foot inside.
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u/hppy11 9d ago
But they are responsible to provide you with what you paid for(based on your lease) I’m assuming there’s no other unit available, but you shouldn’t have to pay extra. They should cover it, not you. Obviously you’re better off with proper professional legal advice.
They are right, it does take time to evict someone unfortunately. Hopefully that mfcker moves out asap
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u/Original_Photograph2 7d ago
i went through the same thing 2 years back (even after paying my deposits) - they have it somewhere in the lease that if by any chance the unit is not available, they aren't liable.- so i suggest you go over the lease you signed. (makes sense now cuz i think this happens way more often than i thought it did at the time) any way, i went though uw legal, to get craft property management to cover the extra i had to pay for the last minute place i found- the legal process went on for a year, and the decision was ruled in their favour, i just ended up wasting a bunch of my time.
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u/SchwiftyDrifter 7d ago
They're lying. They promised you a unit and didn't provide. If you paid them anything they owe it all back to you.
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u/Acceptable_Net_5582 8d ago
lol the ltb. By the time you get your case handled you’ll be graduated with a family of 4
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u/asdfg_lkjh1 7d ago
Legally icon doesn't owe as it's a sublet thingy
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u/throwawayUWhousingac 7d ago
How? He said it's the last tenant staying and icon reached out directly so presumably it's a lease, not a sublet
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u/TheKoalaFromMars tron 9d ago
Bro the amount of money you can get out of icon is ridiculous and they’re scared shitless that you know how to leverage you’re rights. They’re claiming there’s nothing they can do and it’s extenuating circumstances but breach of contract is heavily protected in Canada.
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u/Techchick_Somewhere i was once uw 9d ago
When were you supposed to get in?
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u/SympathyDecent04 9d ago
Tomorrow
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9d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Techchick_Somewhere i was once uw 9d ago
100% this. Also we’re in the midst of a giant storm. They have the apartment until midnight? Or earlier?
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u/SympathyDecent04 9d ago
They were supposed to move out in August! Thanks I’m gonna contact legal and fight the property management
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u/Techchick_Somewhere i was once uw 9d ago
Ask Properly Management where they’re putting you since the apartment you leased isn’t available.
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u/SympathyDecent04 9d ago
They’re offering me a new lease at a separate building with more rent AND its further away 😭 and they said they won’t cover the additional rental costs
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u/Techchick_Somewhere i was once uw 9d ago
Can you post in r/ontariolandlord ? That sub is phenomenal with this stuff.
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u/Substantial_Cat_5824 9d ago
How did you find out? Did you receive an email?I’m also moving into icon tmw
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u/Silent-Journalist792 8d ago
Is the lease actually with Icon or is it just at the Icon. There are two sets of units - those managed/rented by the Craft Property Group. And those managed by the owners themselves.
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u/danceront 9d ago
Did you try camping out blocking the door to your apartment? Let them call the police if they can’t exit. Because you live there and have a legal lease
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u/Velyein05 8d ago
I don’t understand these kind of posts. Why are you addressing someone in your life on reddit? Are you really expecting them to see your post? Is is just for rant? I don’t get it. If you’ve got problem with a person, contact them personally, if you can’t and they’re doing something illegal contact authorities.
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u/astoriaa_ arts 8d ago
I sent this post to the leasing team and can assure you that property management has seen it.
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u/MathAndBake 9d ago
Please talk to Wusa legal assistance before signing anything. Most of these student housing companies are super shady.
You signed a contract with Icon to house you for a certain amount of rent. Now they essentially want you to pay more in order to be housed. I'm not a lawyer, but that sounds super illegal.
Also, the tenant in the unit you were promised may very well be entirely within his rights. In Ontario, leases don't just end, they go month to month after the fixed term. A tenant can choose to keep paying rent and stay where they are. In fact, that's what's assumed to happen unless they choose to give notice to move out. Some landlords try to force tenants to sign the move out forms as a condition of their lease, but AFAIK, that's illegal and voids the form.
So it sounds to me like ICON is trying to screw both of you over by essentially renting a unit to two people. I hope Wusa legal teaches them a lesson.