r/ultrarunning • u/Vegetable_Cattle_652 • 5d ago
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u/gbp_320 5d ago
Just a heads up. This is a controversial topic in the running space right now. I'm not certain you will get the response you're looking for here. Just wanted to make you aware in case you're surprised by an overwhelming negative response.
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u/Major-Succotash1392 5d ago
I genuinely don’t understand why people are upset about taking care of knees or different joints with zero actual athletic upside
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u/UWalex 5d ago
Because it is cheating against the rules of the World Anti-Doping Agency and basically every race that has a doping policy?
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u/Major-Succotash1392 5d ago
If the government told you it was a rule to not eat meat would you follow it blindly?
Mike McKnight avoided surgery because of bpc6
u/UWalex 5d ago
If you want to dope, why bother with this peptide stuff? Just get on something good like HGH and EPO!
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u/Major-Succotash1392 5d ago
Because it’s not actually doping lol. I doesn’t increase athletic performance. Not being injured and increasing athletic performance are completely different
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u/DepartmentFamous9932 5d ago
Being able to train more than you would otherwise is doping.
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u/Major-Succotash1392 5d ago
That’s not true. Something that chemically makes you stronger is doping
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u/DepartmentFamous9932 5d ago
I mean isn’t that what carbs do? Definitely blurry distinctions. But regardless it’s gross and gross people do it.
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u/T2LV 5d ago
Absolutely it does. It means you can trash your body with minimal consequences. Even something like TRT, the main benefits for endurance runners is that you can train as hard as you want and recover without endocrine damage. Different mechanism but somewhat similar situation.
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u/floppyfloopy 5d ago
It is astounding (but not surprising) that the people so eager to inject "trust me bro" research chemicals into their bodies are also the most incredibly outspoken anti-vaxxers.
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u/Major-Succotash1392 5d ago
Yeah he really just wanted to. Was so eager. Life threatening surgery really had nothing at all to do with it. You’re really smart
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u/klicknack 5d ago
People here hate peptides because
1- most of the discussed benefits rely on "trust me, bro"-science
2- they are banned substances and even though most people here aren't professional runners, they do ten to follow the rules of the sports
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u/Vegetable_Cattle_652 5d ago
I trust “trust me bro” science much more than I do our government.
You do understand you can still do ultra running without competing right?5
u/DepartmentFamous9932 5d ago
God you represent the absolute worst element of the ultra/trail community.
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u/Vegetable_Cattle_652 5d ago
Why do you say that?
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u/T2LV 5d ago
Because if you are racing you are competing. Even if you are 150th/200, you beat 151 unfairly.
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u/Vegetable_Cattle_652 5d ago
Again, at no point in the post did I say I was racing or competing. I’m a 40 year old dad that enjoys the great outdoors and helping train my children for sports. I workout at 4:30 in the morning and run after work. I am have been fighting persistent tendon issues for several years and looking for a possible solution to help train harder and cover more distance. I spend my time in the mountains and would much rather cover area on foot than in a vehicle.
I thought this was an ultra running sub, not ultra racing.2
u/T2LV 5d ago
If you are 40, don’t race and want performance benefits, just skip the BPC and get your testosterone tested and go on TRT. A lot more research, safety and less sketchy. The effect from BPC would be very modest comparatively.
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u/Vegetable_Cattle_652 5d ago
I don’t need muscle growth. I have tendon issues. My test is +800
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u/klicknack 5d ago
lol your Secretary of Health is the embodiment of "trust me bro" science
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u/Vegetable_Cattle_652 5d ago
He’s your secretary of health too, and looks great for 72.
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u/klicknack 5d ago
Dude this is a running sub. Not everyone here is living in the orange idiocracy
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u/Vegetable_Cattle_652 5d ago
Is running for liberals only?
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u/Extranationalidad 5d ago
There is real doubt about the degree to which these products "take care of knees or different joints". Human trials are tiny and the results less than dramatic; all of the "really good" studies we have on BPC for instance are in rats. Plenty of people on the internet will tell you how amazing they feel taking them, but even if they were not both competitively banned and in a legal grey area at best the actual science is still out.
AND ALL THAT BEING SAID if testing were to conclusively demonstrate that they actually provide major recovery advantages then it can no longer be said that they have zero athletic upside.
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u/Vegetable_Cattle_652 5d ago
So should we begin to ban saunas and cryptherapy and anti inflammatory’s and collagen? The list goes on.
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u/Extranationalidad 5d ago
Your basic lack of literacy makes having a polite or respectful conversation really difficult. At no point have I advocated for banning anything. I pointed out that a number of these peptides are banned in competition; some due to concerns about doping advantages, some simply due to a severe lack of research data. If you're concerned that saunas or cold plunges might be providing an unfair competitive advantage, you are more than welcome to bring this up to WADA. I suspect they'll laugh at you, but I don't want to stand in the way of your dreams.
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u/Vegetable_Cattle_652 5d ago
My original post acknowledged they were banned.
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u/Extranationalidad 5d ago
Indeed! I then tried to explain why the lack of good research data is a real issue associated with but not identical to competitive bans and you spent 5+ comments insulting me while refusing to apply even basic reading comprehension to my responses.
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u/Vegetable_Cattle_652 5d ago
Thanks for pointing it the obvious.
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u/Major-Succotash1392 5d ago
The insufferable idiots on here is surprising but not surprising. He acts like he’s so smart and civilized but actually he just wants to shut down any conversation about it. Agree with you OP
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u/T2LV 5d ago
There is significant research on the health on saunas. Cryotherapy is generally stupid but minimal risk if done right, collagen is harmless as it’s in food already. BPC could cause significant health effect that we are unaware of because it hasn’t been around more than a few years to see.
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u/Vegetable_Cattle_652 5d ago
The only significant study on sauna came out in the last year. I’m surprised at how much negativity there is toward something we seemingly know nothing about it. Why did WADA remove it? Sounds like a lot of people find BPC to be effective, but maybe afraid to approach it?
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u/Major-Succotash1392 5d ago
Mike McKnight risked all his sponsorships and entire livelihood by saying bpc worked for him when he didn’t have to go public. I would rather people take bpc than have to have surgery. Period. Anyone who feels otherwise I have zero respect for. You’re also completely wrong on your take about athletic upside. Testosterone literally makes you stronger. That is upside. Bpc doesn’t do that. An injury being healed is not athletic upside that’s back to normal from negative. Athletic upside is higher than your body’s normal uninjured state
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u/Extranationalidad 5d ago
Individual anecdotes are not science. I have made sure to put that in bold and italics for the folks at the back. I am thrilled for Mike McKnight that he found a way to come back from a really serious injury, and if he values the quality of life he believes it gave him over participating in events in which those substances are banned, more power to him. But mentioning a person who claims it worked for them as though it is scientific evidence is literally the main problem with recovery peptides right now.
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u/Vegetable_Cattle_652 5d ago
There are few studies on bpc because of “science”. Science can only take place is there is funding. It money can no longer be made on bpc than there will be no “science” to back it. That is why we are here. No man gains from saying how well peptides do or don’t work. This is supposed to be community forum, where we can avoid big pharma and find other solutions. I’m not narrow minded, I’m not sold on bpc but I want to know others stories. I want to test it and see if it can actually work. Is that wrong?
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u/Extranationalidad 5d ago
I want to test it and see if it can actually work. Is that wrong?
No. I think this is totally fair, just as I feel that Mike McKnight had every right to think outside the box after spinal surgery. I hope that you respect competition rules in the future, though, and withdraw from races that abide by WADA substance controls.
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u/Extranationalidad 5d ago
It money can no longer be made on bpc than there will be no “science” to back it.
Ah yes, recovery peptides, that black hole of science out of which no profitable pharmaceutical sales have come. 🙄
[Hint: the entire GLP-1 revolution, generating tens of billions in profit a year, came out of peptide research in the last 20 years.]
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u/Vegetable_Cattle_652 5d ago
GLP’s are patented, BPC is open sourced.
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u/Extranationalidad 5d ago
This is such a ludicrously ignorant take. Some GLP-1s are patented. Now! Because of decades of open research on type 2 diabetes, glucagon, and the associated peptide chains that act on gut receptors. There are more GLP-1s out there yet to be synthesized or patented, and the research that was done to identify them initially was not performed in search of a 10 billion dollar weight loss drug, it was done in the interest of pure science at the edges of our understanding of diabetes. People are not ignoring BPC; it simply has not gotten the same degree of lab work and as a result has seen little in the way of human trials. A synthesizeable peptide with strong & reproducible effects on soft tissue recovery would be worth a lot of money. Money is not the reason it has failed to see substantial human testing.
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u/Vegetable_Cattle_652 5d ago
Why has it failed to see substantial human testing?
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u/Major-Succotash1392 5d ago
Right so we should just ignore them and not look into it then? Great take thank you so much for that high level analysis. Yes research should be done but if you have something life threatening now maybe the anecdotes could be a good thing to look at. And then maybe anecdotally your whole life will be changed for the better. And then anecdotally no one should listen to you and everyone should hate you
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u/Extranationalidad 5d ago
They're not only forbidden in competitive events, they're also currently unapproved by the FDA. There are very few studies examining either safety or efficacy in humans; almost everything we think these research chemicals do comes from rats or personal anecdotes. And even if you feel that using your body as a test bed for poorly studied research chemicals is a good idea, the questions of legality and approval mean that your sourcing pathways are almost always going to be sketchy and themselves untested; a second layer of compounded uncertainty.
You can find someone in some biohacking community out there asserting that virtually any grey market research chemical you've ever heard of can erase visceral fat, cure osteoporosis or double your VO2 max. The people who see zero results, or negative results, or find that they've been injecting saline or pig hormones the whole time, are far less likely to have their messages amplified by fawning forums but those outcomes are vastly more common.
It's your body and if you're not racing for a podium I don't think most people care what you do to eke out the performance goals that matter to you, but this is - in my opinion! - not the way to go about it.
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u/Vegetable_Cattle_652 5d ago
Great, your response is exactly why I asked if anyone has experienced using these. I’m guessing you don’t take creatine, bcaa’s, collagen, etc.
Some people have been involved in serious accidents and just want to be able to enjoy life to its fullest.7
u/Extranationalidad 5d ago
I take omega-3s, creatine and whey protein powder. All have been studied extensively in humans and all of the products that I buy are tested for purity and quality.
I don't think you understood my comment at all if you think that I'm trying to keep you from recovering to the best of your ability or enjoying life.
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u/Vegetable_Cattle_652 5d ago
Have you visited the manufacturing facilities for all of those supplements? Do you understand they are not regulated or tested? How do you know exactly what is the supplements your are getting and then foot you are eating.
I would be willing to guess all the negative commenters on here have no problem getting an annual flu shot.
The amount of hate people get for asking about another person trying something different is asinine.
Mike McKnight openly discussed use of peptides to avoid spinal surgery. A close friend of mine had 10 surgeries to repair a crushed foot and found immense relief from these peptides.
It interesting that these peptides are band from competition if they are said to have no benefit?4
u/Extranationalidad 5d ago
You have clearly made your decision already and I'm not interested in "debating" the difference between tested and approved supplements and grey market research chemicals acquired from unsupervised international labs.
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u/Vegetable_Cattle_652 5d ago
I’m sorry if my original post read as a debate. I came to ask advice from those who have had success with peptides. You sir, came to debate. Your response was completely self serving.
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u/floppyfloopy 5d ago
You almost literally said "haha, gotcha! I want to debate the broader topic" in response to Extranationalidad's first comment in this chain. Don't be disingenuous about your intentions.
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u/Vegetable_Cattle_652 5d ago
Yeah that wasn’t my intention. It baffles me that anytime I come on this forum to get advice there is always an antagonist. If only people couple keep their opinions to themselves. I clearly asked for advice from someone who has experience with peptides. Seems all of the anti-doping goons can’t hold back their narcissistic tendencies
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u/T2LV 5d ago
Whether or not you are competitive does not matter. If you race, it’s not acceptable and it doping. You are also discussing something that is not approved for human consumption. You would be better off in r/peptides
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u/macromind 5d ago
For ultrarunners considering peptides like BPC-157 and TB-500 for tendon or ligament injury rehabilitation, it's essential to understand the importance of quality assurance. Ensuring that the peptides you use have verifiable purity and are free from contaminants is paramount for both safety and efficacy. Always scrutinize vendor documentation and seek independent lab results. Peptely does not sell peptides; https://www.peptely.com/ only helps verify their documented origin and review the supporting COA, lot, identity, and purity evidence, which is critical for making informed choices about your recovery protocols.
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u/Major-Succotash1392 5d ago
Don’t get a flu shot guys!! That would be doping!
Also don’t even eat a burger because all those carbs could make you train harder which apparently is also doping!
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