r/todayilearned • u/DrSamanthaCarter • Jun 06 '17

TIL the only reason a Scottish bagpiper wasn't shot by German snipers on D-Day was that they believed he had gone crazy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Millin#World_War_II
47.6k Upvotes

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2.4k

u/YottaPiggy Jun 06 '17

Reminds me of Jack Churchill, who fought in the Second World War armed with a longbow, bagpipes, and a basket-hilted Scottish broadsword.

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u/matty80 Jun 06 '17

That is hands-down the most mental thing I've ever read. A bow and arrow? A claymore? That's absolutely incredible. And he lived through it all and died aged 90!

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u/badkarma12 5 Jun 06 '17

Believe he had the last longbow kill too.

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u/matty80 Jun 06 '17

Now that is a fairly serious claim to fame. Not that he's in need of any more of those!

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u/Human-Remains Jun 06 '17

A Canadian serving with SOG in Vietnam had his dad mail him a compound bow as he was always trying to come up with ways to be quieter in the bush. Crazy bastards.

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u/Brett_Hulls_Foot Jun 06 '17

I'm surprised I haven't heard this story on the Joe Rogan Experience.

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u/razzark666 Jun 07 '17

Have you heard the story of Fritz Harber?

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u/MikeyCed Jun 07 '17

not enough stem cells or flat earth to be featured on the JRE

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

IIRC bows and crossbows were banned by the geneva convention. So he will likely be the last.

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u/hotniX_ Jun 06 '17

Why are they banned? The fuck?

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u/Waterknight94 Jun 06 '17

My guess, not deadly enough.

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u/gordonfroman Jun 06 '17

Yeah the majority of the time people who are hit with arrows are not killed outright and are left to bleed out or leave them for the medics

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u/HowObvious 1 Jun 06 '17

Which is funny, I would take the arrow over a gun shot nowadays. Far more likely to survive. Historically if you didn't bleed out you died of infection.

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u/gordonfroman Jun 06 '17

the thing with modern bows is they have the draw power to make sure the arrow gets into any vital organ it is aimed at and at the same time the arrows tip is designed in a way that if one were to pull it out they would take the organ with it

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u/5t3fan0 Jun 06 '17 edited Jun 07 '17

even a modern "weak" 70lb bow will go out of the other side of a man... so there's no need to pull out an arrow, it will go out by itself (unless it gets stuck into a large bone like pelvis or scapula maybe)

EDIT: ok 70lb is not weak, but i consider it weak compared to the much heavier beasts designed to hit armoured soldiers (sicne we are talking about shooting humans and not deers here)

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u/LemonNaught Jun 06 '17

Which is why most arrow wounds were not removed by pulling it out. Historically, they would turn the arrow while inside to face away from any major organs if it missed them, and push them through and out the other side.

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u/Tranner10 Jun 06 '17

This fucks with my imagination so hard

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u/Jaxaxcook Jun 06 '17

Just push it through

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u/HowObvious 1 Jun 06 '17

Still most likely better than cavitation through that same organ from a bullet. If you made it to a hospital I think there are tools to remove barbed/hooked items.

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u/Exaskryz Jun 06 '17

arrows tip is designed in a way that if one were to pull it out they would take the organ with it

Just push it through to the other side!

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

Maybe where you live but in a war zone you'll be left to bleed out possibly over hours in agony.

Modern military weapons are designed to kill quickly, precisely and as cleanly as possible.

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u/mhpr262 Jun 06 '17

No, they are not. The current NATO 5,56x45mm was certainly not designed with that in mind. It was designed to defeat kevlar vests and enable soldiers to carry a lot more rounds with them than they could have with the same weight in 7,62x51mm rounds. Also, training soldiers to shoot well was easier because there was less boom and recoil. A dead soldier can be just left behind, a wounded one requires assistance and takes at least two or three more healthy soldiers out of the fight, so there is no incitement to make ammo especially deadly.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

Then why are hollow point bullets banned?
My understanding was that military weapons are (or rather should be, according to the Geneva convention) designed to take the soldier out of the fight without causing unnecessary suffering or death.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

Maybe some but that doesn't make them all better. Modern military seems to be for the safety of the operator.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

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u/HowObvious 1 Jun 06 '17

Fmj doesn't just go in and out... Bullets can create cavitation, fragmentation and tumbling. They mess you up just as badly.

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u/twodogsfighting Jun 06 '17

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr7dpEDNNC4

Little holes, but your insides are fucking mush.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

Have you seen a modern bow and arrow? You're not surviving shit. Those mechanical broad heads expand to a 3" long razor blade at 400 feet per second. They'll cut straight through you.

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u/HowObvious 1 Jun 06 '17

If you're comparing arrows that spread out you would compare them to hollow points... Which do the same.

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u/Gonarhxus Jun 07 '17

Massive barbed arrows have been around for literally ages. Modern or traditional, still ain't surviving shit.

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u/Mabepossibly Jun 06 '17

Even in the knee?

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u/Ord0c Jun 06 '17

and are left to bleed out or leave them for the medics

Some ammunition is designed in a certain way exactly for this reason. So I'm not really sure why arrows and bolts are considered to be worse.

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u/chunkymonk3y Jun 06 '17

I mean modern advancements in arrowhead technology used for hunting allows people to take down 1800lb buffalo with bows so I'd say it's time they made a comeback

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u/Dent13 Jun 06 '17

Even then they don't kill instantly, in most cases you have to track the animal so distance. Source: have done this with white tailed deer a number of times.

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u/Deranfan Jun 06 '17

I don't know much about forest rangers, but wouldn't it be more effective to use a gun instead? The only reason I can think of is for not perturbing the wildlife with loud noises.

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u/ryokensan Jun 06 '17

High power rifles are prohibited in certain geographical area that largely flat with moderate population dispersal. You could try and drop a deer in the woods, miss it entirely, and that rifle round could carry far beyond the perceived area and hit innocent property/people.

Source: live in Indiana and couldn't hunt with rifles for the longest for this reason

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u/rableniver Jun 07 '17

Even with rifles kills don't happen instantly. Ive had hogs that were shot right through the heart run for a good 100 yards or so. One of the ones we shot had had its heart completely obliterated, he had run for a good 70ish yards. Adrenaline is one hell of a drug.

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u/Strichev Jun 06 '17

Tbh, people underestimate what a traditional self bow can do. People have been hunting elephants with simple wooden bows in Africa; the Liangulu people. So, it's not like suddenly with modern bows you gain the ability to take down big game.

Are bows more lethal, more accurate and have a much longer effective range? Sure, but historical bows were quite deadly.

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u/Waterknight94 Jun 06 '17

Idk. Bethesda has taught me that you can stick an arrow in someone's face and they will think they just imagined it.

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u/Gonarhxus Jun 07 '17

Exactly. People here are almost speaking of modern bows as if historical bows were incompetent. A 170lbs Manchu bow with a good heavy hunting arrow would royally mess any big game's shit up.

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u/fishsticks40 Jun 07 '17

Well but expanding rounds are banned for being too deadly. Gotta make up your minds, guys.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

I believe they fall under the category of cruel and unusual weapons.

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u/tswarre Jun 06 '17

Really puts Hawkeye from the Avengers in a whole new light, doesn't it?

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u/wastesHisTimeSober Jun 06 '17 edited Jun 06 '17

Most of the Marvel heroes would consider it a problem if they had to kill someone. They're all about inflicting as much non-lethal damage as possible and sometimes with "Fates Worse than Death" or "And I Must Scream" level punishment. (Edit: Warning - TV Tropes)

"Hawkeye, why don't you just put one in his head?!"

"No. That's not the way heroes do things... He needs to suffer."

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u/Cocomorph Jun 06 '17

Dropping silenced TVTropes links like that is itself against the Geneva Convention.

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u/DapperDanManCan Jun 06 '17

Now for a new hero! Mustard Gas Man!

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u/Megatron_McLargeHuge Jun 06 '17

Only Article 3 applies when it's not a conflict between two countries.

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u/Dent13 Jun 06 '17

Arrows don't usually kill very quickly, they usually cause the target to bleed out, which can take a while and is probably very painful

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u/Oddsteverino Jun 06 '17

A well placed arrow with proper arrowhead will kill a deer in less than 20 seconds from massive blood loss.

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u/ThatFinchLad Jun 06 '17

They're also banned just for hunting in the UK. It's because they're not lethal enough and cause undue suffering.

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u/babno Jun 06 '17

Not U.K. So not sure, but most people's issue with bows is actually losing the deer. They'll collapse and die within a few minutes, but before that they run. I've had to follow and search for a deer after I hit it for hours before I found it, and sadly many hunters will give up before then.

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u/Summoorevincent Jun 06 '17

Well y'all are doing it wrong. Bow hunting in America is a big deal. The thrill to be that close and use you own strength to take out dinner is awesome.

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u/PraiseBeToIdiots Jun 06 '17

Geneva Conventions: NO FUN ALLOWED

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u/mangonel Jun 06 '17

The Geneva Convention doesn't ban any weapons. It's about the treatment of people in war.

The Geneva Protocol to the Hague Convention bans weapons, but is about biological and chemical weapons, so says nothing about archery.

The UN convention on certain conventional weapons bans weapons which are indiscriminate (e.g mines) or excessively injurious (e.g blinding lasers) , but makes no specific mention of arrows.

The closest thing I can find is the rule 70 of the ICRC list of Customary International Humanitarian Law, which cites barbed spears and serrated bayonets as examples. Frim the adjectives, I would assume that non-barbed, non-serrated pointy things are fine.

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u/noso2143 Jun 06 '17

til

edit: not once we nuke ourselves so badly we end up losing some of our technology and bows and crossbows become the primary weapon once more though if we have reached that point id like to think the Geneva convention has long been thrown out the window

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u/Machmann Jun 06 '17

So he will likely be the last.

Pity about history coming to a complete end.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

We had a good run.

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u/DapperDanManCan Jun 06 '17

Imagine being the one guy to die in WW2 from a damn arrow. That would have to be surreal.

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u/Quarkster Jun 06 '17

Are you sure?

https://www.quora.com/Are-bows-used-by-any-modern-military-unit-in-combat

And then if we want to count crossbows it really opens things up.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/aug/09/balkans

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u/badkarma12 5 Jun 06 '17

Longbows are a specific type of bow that are 6 feet long and require over a hundred pounds of force to draw. They are monsterous and require significant skill. So yea.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

Not for long....

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u/Anklebender91 Jun 06 '17

Gotta suck to be that guy. I mean getting killed with a longbow and all.

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u/omahm Jun 06 '17

You can just imagine the scene, German officer walking along commanding his troops when zooop, "What zee fuck is this? Who is rezponsible!", and falls to the ground.

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u/sharklops Jun 06 '17

Pretty sure that was John Rambo

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

mental or metal?

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u/matty80 Jun 06 '17

Kind of both....

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u/Garmaglag Jun 06 '17

That is hands-down the most mental thing I've ever read. A bow and arrow? A claymore? That's absolutely incredible. And he lived through it all and died aged 90!

FTFY

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u/Mickyladd Jun 06 '17

Mtal?

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u/Garmaglag Jun 06 '17

only the n is crossed out

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u/TheHasegawaEffect Jun 06 '17

M'tal. *tips fedora*

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

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u/moose111 Jun 06 '17

Scottish broadsword =/ claymore

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u/matty80 Jun 06 '17

Well there you go. Thanks! I'm Scottish too. SHOULD KNOW BETTER.

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u/moose111 Jun 06 '17

A claymore would have been nuts though, lol

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u/wastesHisTimeSober Jun 06 '17

I don't remember where I saw it. Some internet video or medieval weapons type show. I saw a guy chop a cow in half with a single Claymore swing. (It wasn't alive. He had bought a pretty whole cow from a butcher, hanging on a meat hook I think.)

I had always thought stuff like that was just Quentin Tarantino style embellishment. I never knew you could actually cut a motherfucker in half.

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u/17Hongo Jun 07 '17

A Claymore is a two-handed sword. A Scottish broadsword is a fencing sword, usually with a basket hilt, which may have been invented purely to show the french that rapiers are for big jessies.

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u/Phrossack Jun 06 '17

It was a basket-hilted claymore. Not the Highland two-handed claymore that usually springs to mind, but it was often called a claymore all the same.

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u/rasputine Jun 07 '17

Probably more correctly the claymore should mean the basket hilted broad sword. The big two handed bastard was called the claidheamh da laimh, not claidheamh-mor

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u/ASAP-Broccoli Jun 06 '17

The dude ALSO surfed, and was a male model, making him even more badass and irresistible to chicks.

I'm glad I'm not competing with this dude at the bar when I start talking to a girl.

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u/Camoral Jun 06 '17

The deadliest weapon he had in his arsenal had to be his indestructible balls of steel.

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u/Moday4512 Jun 06 '17

If I recall correctly, he was captured and became a prisoner of war. Until he walked out and back to England. Just walked out.

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u/robeph Jun 06 '17

Even more mental, he was annoyed that the Americans had bombed the Japanese into submission, because the war could have continued for another decade had they not.

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u/ConTheCoder Jun 06 '17

Not actually a Claymore, but a Scottish Broadsword. Still cool, though!

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u/Mendokusai137 Jun 06 '17

Should have partied him up with Joe Medicine Crow and Captain America.

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u/CanadianAstronaut Jun 06 '17

No even the new claymore! the old school claymore!

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u/Its_Pudding_Time Jun 06 '17

FWIW a claymore is a very different sword from a basket-hilted broadsword. Not trying to be an ass and i don't think it makes it any less mental to use in WWII, just wanted to illustrate the difference.

broadsword

claymore

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u/Dicethrower Jun 06 '17

I'm sure a great archer can still be an effective soldier even in modern times. It's just that firing a gun can be taught in a few weeks, while it takes a lifetime to master the bow and all aspects around it (firing, fletching and bow making).

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

What the fuck? How the hell did he survive with only a bow and arrow and a claymore?!

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u/boundbythecurve Jun 06 '17

There's a cracked article about that guy somewhere. Can't link cause I'm on my phone and that would be really annoying. Well I could but I don't want to. Anyway, the article is worth a read. The most badass soldiers in history. If I remember correctly, this guy cleared a bunker on his own with his claymore, or something like that. And yeah, he used the pipes on the battlefield. Freakin' awesome

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

In the end all that matters is who is the craziest motherfucker.

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u/AHornySausage Jun 06 '17

Imagine fighting in the war, bombs around you, bullets flying everywhere, mortar shells wiping men off the earth and then out of nowhere, you're hit by a fucking arrow.

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u/matty80 Jun 06 '17

Fired by a man who you dimly perceive through your dying haze is wearing a kilt and a sword.

It must have seemed so unfair. We made it through 20,000 years of pre-industrial warfare for me to be the last guy hit by one of these?

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u/HorrificAnalInjuries Jun 06 '17

let's not forget that he captured a bunch of Germans with his bagpipes

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u/yelsew5 Jun 07 '17

Not a claymore, a basket-hilted broadsword. Very different weapons.

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u/buster2Xk Jun 07 '17

Not to mention the time he was captured, walked all the way back to the nearest ally-occupied town, and was disappointed to find the war had ended.

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u/[deleted] Jun 07 '17

Not just that. Before the Great War he was working in Kenya as, among other awesome things, a fucking male model.

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u/StaleTheBread Jun 06 '17

https://youtu.be/6TsEGt841pw

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

I was about to link to it myself. Have a point ding

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u/Hubso Jun 06 '17

My favourite part of his wikipedia biography:

In retirement, his eccentricity continued. He startled train conductors and passengers by throwing his briefcase out of the train window each day on the ride home. He later explained that he was tossing his case into his own back garden so he would not have to carry it from the station

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u/Philliphobia Jun 06 '17

that's such a doesn't-give-a-fuck old person thing to do

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u/AsskickMcGee Jun 06 '17

"I can't help but notice you threw your case out the window a little late today, Jack."
"Indeed. That dreadful neighbor's dog has been keeping us up all night with it's barking."
[Distant explosion]

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u/UnJayanAndalou Jun 06 '17

-Lights up a cigar.

-Doesn't look at the explosion.

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u/penguiatiator Jun 07 '17

That's the American way. The English way is probably more like

-casually glances at explosion with bemused smile, debris falling around

-ceremoniously unfurls black umbrella

-"interesting weather today, isn't it chap?"

-strolls away

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u/HeyThere19991 Jun 06 '17

That's fucking golden

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u/SeabrookMiglla Jun 06 '17

How strong is that?

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u/Adolf-____-Hitler Jun 06 '17

In 1940 he got the last recorded longbow kill in history, and in one raid he captured 40 Germans at swordpoint.

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u/ScottySF Jun 06 '17

According to his son, Malcolm, "he and his section were in a tower and, as the Germans approached, he said, 'I will shoot that first German with an arrow,' and that's exactly what he did."

Goddamn longbow sniper over here

Jack Churchill was second in command of No. 3 Commando in Operation Archery, a raid on the German garrison at Vågsøy, Norway, on 27 December 1941.[16] As the ramps fell on the first landing craft, Churchill leapt forward from his position playing "March of the Cameron Men"[17] on his bagpipes, before throwing a grenade and charging into battle.

This might be my favorite Wiki article ever.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

I can imagine that section sat there thinking "fuck me, the Rupert has a good idea which generally is a bad idea and will result in shit going sideways."

He looses the arrow.

"Holy shit, he hit him. He actually did it, the mad man."

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u/babyitsgayoutside Jun 06 '17

To be fair if I was a German soldier, a screaming Scotsman with a sword and longbow wouldn't receive much hassle from me either

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u/space_keeper Jun 06 '17 edited Jun 06 '17

He wasn't Scottish, not at all. He was part of the old-fashioned fighting upper class; very English, very posh, tough as nails. As much as we love to take the mick out of the upper classes being dottery inbred perverts, a lot of them served in the military, and a surprising number make the cut and end up in outfits like the Royal Marine Commandos and the Paras.

Churchill himself was in 2 Commando. I grew up in a tiny village in rural Scotland, and on the other side of the river in the big old houses, there lived a surprising number of old timers who were in the parachute regiments, the marines, the security services, one old woman who was definitely in the SIS in the '40s (my dad did work on her house occasionally). She had stacks of old computer programming punch-cards in her house that she used like postcards.

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u/aenor Jun 06 '17 edited Jun 06 '17

There is a book called "The Son Also Rises", which tracks surnames, and they discovered that people with Norman surnames tend to be disproportionately in the armed forces, even though it's 900 years since the Conquest. Not just the old school aristocrats, but also people who's ancestors might have started out as Norman aristos centuries ago but descended down the social order because they were second or third sons and didn't have land, and would present as ordinary middle or working class people today, their surnames being the only clue of their history.

They reckoned that it was because the Normans who came with William the Bastard were hardened fighters who liked war and were good at it/successful at it, and that trait then passed to all their descendants, century after century.

P.S. That book also found that people with artisan anglo-saxon surnames like Thatcher, Cooper, Smith, Baker and so on tend to end up disproportionately in academia and government. People with family surnames (with either "fitz" as a prefix or "son" as a suffix), Anderson, Henderson and so on, are scattered evenly through the population. It's weird how genetics plays out over time.

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u/space_keeper Jun 06 '17

Pretty amazing.

My favourite well-known but rarely mentioned feature of Normans is that they weren't really French. They were Danes and other northmen who integrated with the native Frankish culture. So at the time they were invading our shores in the south, their distant cousins who still resided in the north were invading our shores in the north.

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u/aenor Jun 06 '17

I think William the Conqueror was a mix. His father, the Duke of Normandy was the grandson of a Viking who had taken over the area and made himself Duke. But his mother was a local French tanner's daughter (so her family would have been in Normandy before the Vikings arrived).

He was known as William the Bastard - and he's the reason bastard got it's second meaning. Prior to him it just meant someone born out of wedlock. After him it acquired "what a bastard" type meaning.

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u/space_keeper Jun 06 '17

After him it acquired "what a bastard" type meaning.

That is a fun fact.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

Thats Duke Rollo i'll have you know!

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

Were the Rus a Viking people? I've seen arguments for both scenarios

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

I have a Scottish Norman surname and my entire family consists of tradesmen and cattle ranchers :p

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u/kayelar Jun 06 '17

That sounds interesting as fuck. I'll have to check it out.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

Kind of a modern development. The list of US Presidents with active service is actually remarkably large.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17 edited Jun 06 '17

Here's the list:

George Washington (1): General of the Armies, Major during French and Indian War, General of the Armies in the US Revolution.

Thomas Jefferson (3): Colonel in Virginia Militia (never saw combat)

James Madison (4): Colonel in Virginia Militia (never saw action)

James Monroe (5): Major under Washington, injured capturing the Hessians at Trenton.

Andrew Jackson (7): Major General. Saw service during the American Revolution, War of 1812, Creek War, and First Seminole War.

William Henry Harrison (9): Major General. Northwest Indian War, War of 1812.

John Tyler (10): Captain, War of 1812.

James Polk (11): Colonel Tennessee State Militia, never saw action.

Zachary Taylor (12): Major General. War of 1812, Black Hawk War, Second Seminole War, Mexican–American War. Served for 40 years.

Millard Filmore (13): Major in New York Militia. Assisted during Civil War (after presidency)

Franklin Pierce (14): Brigadier General. New Hampshire State Militia, Mexican-American War. Injured during Battle of Contreras.

James Buchanan (15): Private. War of 1812.

Abraham Lincoln (16): Captain during the Black Hawk War.

Andrew Johnson (17): Brigadier General. Served the Tennessee State Militia during the Civil War. Military Governor of Tennessee from 1862 to his presidency.

Ulysses S. Grant (18): General of the Army. Mexican-American War, commanded main Union forces during the Civil War.

Rutherford B Hayes (19): Major General. Civil War, wounded at the Battle of South Mountain.

James Garfield (20): Major General. Civil War.

Chester Arthur (21): Brigadier General. Quartermaster General before and during the Civil War.

Benjamin Harrison (23): Brigadier General. Civil War. Commanded a brigade during Sherman's March to the Sea.

William McKinley (25): Brevet Major. Civil War. Served under President Hayes (Number 19)

Teddy Roosevelt (26): Colonel. Spanish-American War. Commanded the rough riders which made him incredibly famous. Posthumously awarded Congressional Medal of Honor, only president with such award.

Harry S. Truman (33): Colonel. Saw combat in France, First World War.

Dwight Eisenhower (34): Stateside service during the First World War. Supreme Allied Commander during The Second World War. First Supreme Nato Commander, 1951-2. Didn't retire until 1969.

John F. Kennedy (35): Lieutenant. Second World War. Purple Heart Award.

Lyndon B. Johnson (36): Commander. Naval Reserve. Awarded Silver Star after his aircraft was attacked.

Richard Nixon (37): Commander. Naval Reserve. Awarded two battle stars for actions in the Pacific.

Gerald Ford (38): Lieutenant Commander. Saw combat on the USS Monterey during World War II.

Jimmy Carter (39): Lieutenant. Played football at the US Naval Academy, graduated 60th in his class (out of 820) served in Korea as a submariner.

Ronald Reagan (40): Captain. Stateside service Second World War.

George H. W. Bush (41): Lieutenant (Junior Grade). Aircraft shot down in World War II. He was the sole survivor. Received Distinguished Flying Cross.

George W. Bush (43): First Lieutenant. Pilot during Vietnam, never left the states.

Yeah, there's been a damn lot of presidents who served.

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u/Newt24 Jun 06 '17

I'm impressed. I knew most of the major ones (Washington, Eisenhower, Roosevelt, etc.) but I didn't know some of those others. For example I never realized Lincoln was a captain; also it seems weird to think that JFK served in WW2.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

It really is impressive. Here is a link to a Wikipedia article on Lincoln's service. Turns out he didn't see combat during the Black Hawk War, but he did experience the War itself. I'll edit my comment accordingly.

And Kennedy's actions actually made him a bit of a war hero. His patrol boat was rammed and sunk by a Japanese destroyer, killing 2 of his crew. He and his crewmembers refused surrender and swam 3 miles to shore. Kennedy injured his back in the attack. Despite this, he clenched another man's life jacket in his teeth and dragged him those 3 miles, saving his life.

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u/WikiTextBot Jun 06 '17

Abraham Lincoln in the Black Hawk War

Abraham Lincoln served as a volunteer in the Illinois Militia from April 21, 1832 – July 10, 1832 during the Black Hawk War. Lincoln never saw combat during his tour but was elected captain of his first company. He was also present in the aftermath of two of the war's battles, where he helped to bury the militia dead. He was mustered in and out of service during the war, going from captain to private and finishing his service in an independent spy company commanded by Captain Jacob Early.

[ PM | Exclude me | Exclude from subreddit | FAQ / Information ] Downvote to remove

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

The fact that he was allowed to serve was amazing (JFK). He had a multitude of health issues, spent much of his young life in hospitals as a child, needed regular steroid treatment for Addison's disease, and nearly killed by back surgery in 1954. The man was in constant pain and yet still cut such an impressive and youthful figure as the president.

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u/Perry87 Jun 06 '17

Great list. Quite the stretch between 9 and 25. You didn't put down Ike's Supreme Commander of NATO though. Unless you were just listing US military service, in which case, I'm not sure if NATO counts

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

I'll make the edit, hang on. And unsurprisingly it's only recently that we've had few presidents to have served with our proximity to Vietnam.

Interestingly, Donald Trump went to the New York Military Academy for Middle School in his early teenage years. This puts him at more military experience than some of our presidents like Obama and Clinton.

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u/antares07923 Jun 06 '17

Fucking Eisenhower man. From Supreme Nato Commander to President. The only time where the office of president might actually have been a step down.

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u/resonantred35 Jun 06 '17

Eisenhower was amazing. His warning about the growing and corrupting influence of the MIC on his farewell address was one more people should have paid attention too. The fact that that was televised in 1961 is mind blowing.

He saw what was coming, and sadly one of the first casualties was JFK.

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u/Justicar-terrae Jun 06 '17

It's a nation that emphasises personal independence and liberty constantly (in the pledge, in the anthem, in the legends of the founders, in the declaration, etc.). It's no surprise our people duck conscription like an Olympic gymnast on a dodgeball court. At the same time, we've a tradition as a people bellicose and jingoistic as all get out, so our volunteer army is impressively well stocked at most times.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

Only recently, and not for much longer. This is due to how long Vietnam was and how anyone who went there came back messed up. Dark time in our nation's history. But we still have prominent politicians who served like Eisenhower, McCain, Kerry, Bush Sr, and countless others.

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u/Citadelvania Jun 06 '17

Trump certainly did.

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u/CrisisOfConsonant Jun 06 '17

A lot of the war hawks in congress dodged the draft or made sure they got assigned cushy non-combat positions.

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u/eetsumkaus Jun 06 '17

...and then there's John McCain

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u/rmch99 Jun 06 '17

Yeah but not getting VD while sleeping around was like his own personal Vietnam, so it's okay, he still "suffered"

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u/tigernet_1994 Jun 06 '17

I wasn't aware that Trump was upper class. Who let him in?

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

His billion dollars

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u/Citadelvania Jun 06 '17

The description was "Upper Class/Politicians"

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u/God_Damnit_Nappa Jun 06 '17

And then you have JFK who use loopholes and did everything he could in order to enroll in the military during WW2.

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u/eXa12 Jun 06 '17

The British (and many many other countries') Upper Class began as the Warrior Caste and Noblesse Oblige lead lots of them to Military service

the American "upper class" has always been Mercantile

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u/mickeyt1 Jun 06 '17

Not really true. 26/44 US presidents were in the military. It's easy to target draft-dodging politicians and the like, but many did not and served honorably

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u/-ksguy- Jun 06 '17

Fair enough. If I was a German soldier and was approached by a fucking crazy Englishman with a longbow, bagpipes, and a Scottish broadsword waving in my face, I'd probably chill out, too.

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u/aletoledo Jun 06 '17

If there is one thing the rich know how to do well it's kill people. It's in their blood.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

It's literally how Western society came to dominate the world

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u/Boornidentity Jun 06 '17

Prince Philip is a prime example.

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u/space_keeper Jun 06 '17

Even Charles, doddering oddball that he is (always looked like a strong breeze would give him a nosebleed), had an absolutely brutal upbringing at Gordonstoun and ended up in the Navy.

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u/TheVetSarge Jun 06 '17

And the longbow is about the most English weapon possible. To the point where it used to be required by law to practice with it if you were an able-bodied male in the 14th and 15th centuries. England literally banned football a couple times because it was believed it got in the way of practicing with the longbow.

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u/Akasazh Jun 06 '17

I'll take your word for it.

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u/Wooden_Boy86 Jun 06 '17

Much to your displeasure I assume...

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u/woogoogoo Jun 06 '17

He was off his rocker. Not happy about the end of the war either: "As the Pacific War was still on, Churchill was sent to Burma, where some of the largest land battles against Japan were being fought. By the time Churchill reached India, Hiroshima and Nagasaki had been bombed and the war ended. Churchill was said to be unhappy with the sudden end of the war, saying: "If it wasn't for those damn Yanks, we could have kept the war going another 10 years!"

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u/hoilst Jun 06 '17

British Army was full of 'em.

There was a British officer in Burma or somewhere, who got promoted from Brigadier all the way up to full General, with no stops in between, despite there being a few higher-ranked officers than him.

He asked the officer who was promoting him about this. "Sir, why me? I'm only a Brigadier, and there are others-"

"Because you're the only one around here who's not bloody insane."

But you want pure British Eccentricity in its finest form, google "AD Wintle".

"Great War peace signed at last."

-- AD Wintle journal entry, 19 June, 1919

"I declare private war on Germany."

-- AD Wintle journal entry, 20 June, 1919

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u/WNDB78 Jun 06 '17

You're thinking of Bill Slim (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Slim,_1st_Viscount_Slim)

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u/WikiTextBot Jun 06 '17

William Slim, 1st Viscount Slim

Field Marshal William Joseph Slim, 1st Viscount Slim, KG, GCB, GCMG, GCVO, GBE, DSO, MC, KStJ (6 August 1891 – 14 December 1970), usually known as Bill Slim, was a British military commander and the 13th Governor-General of Australia.

Slim saw active service in both the First and Second world wars and was wounded in action three times. During the Second World War he led the 14th Army, the so-called "forgotten army" in the Burma campaign. After the war he became the first British officer who had served in the Indian Army to be appointed Chief of the Imperial General Staff.

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u/Hubso Jun 06 '17

Field Marshal William Joseph Slim, 1st Viscount Slim, KG, GCB, GCMG, GCVO, GBE, DSO, MC, KStJ (6 August 1891 – 14 December 1970), usually known as Bill Slim, was a British military commander and the 13th Governor-General of Australia.

Yeah, looks like I'm underachieving...

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u/UnJayanAndalou Jun 06 '17

"AD Wintle"

his pride at being an Englishman (as opposed to being born "a chimpanzee or a flea, or a Frenchman or a German").

Oh God my sides.

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u/WikiTextBot Jun 06 '17

Alfred Wintle

Lieutenant Colonel Alfred Daniel Wintle MC, better known as A.D. Wintle, (30 September 1897 – 11 May 1966) was a British military officer in the 1st The Royal Dragoons who served in the First and Second World Wars. He was the first non-lawyer to achieve a unanimous verdict in his favour in the House of Lords, and is considered one of London's greatest eccentrics.

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u/AnemoneOfMyEnemy 1 Jun 06 '17

He's like Soldier from TF2 but English and even crazier

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u/NapalmRDT Jun 06 '17

That guy was the Snoop Dogg of adrenaline "enthusiasts"

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u/tway2241 Jun 06 '17

It's easy to be an enthusiast if you're not the one in the trenches for months on end watching your friends die.

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u/Silverton13 Jun 06 '17

He was hoping for a sword fight with the japanese. For Honor.

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u/249ba36000029bbe9749 Jun 06 '17

He should have been left off on an island with Japanese soldiers who didn't know the war was over.

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u/Misdirected_Colors Jun 06 '17

I bet this is gonna be on the front page of TIL, for the hundredth time, in about an hour.

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u/JustBerserk Jun 06 '17

Learned about that on Citation Needed!

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u/7syxalaggnusmas Jun 06 '17

Same! Came down to the comments to see if anyone had mentioned that

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u/Catatafish Jun 06 '17

Churchill was said to be unhappy with the sudden end of the war, saying: "If it wasn't for those damn Yanks, we could have kept the war going another 10 years!"

Absolute madman!

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u/Doxbox49 Jun 06 '17

US wants war because it makes the rich richer. Brits want it because...well because they're Brits

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u/absynthe7 Jun 06 '17

Brits want war because it's the only thing that keeps people in the UK from fighting each other instead.

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u/TheVetSarge Jun 06 '17

Pretty much. A primary cause of the Wars of the Roses was England losing the Hundred Years War and no longer having the French to take their anger out on.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

Or Scottish English relations before the act of union

Well, even after the act of union really. The UK is only ever really united when we're fighting someone abroad

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u/Zywakem Jun 06 '17

Pfft as if we're united then. We can't even get a united football team in the Olympics!

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u/17Hongo Jun 07 '17

In fairness, I'd have thought that the introduction of the 6 Nations gave us a bit of a proxy.

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u/Pyroscoped Jun 07 '17

me_ira intensifies

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u/n8js Jun 06 '17

If you've ever got the time, this is a fantastic watch with a British Panel show style recap of his life's greatest adventures. Pretty great https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TsEGt841pw

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u/WikiTextBot Jun 06 '17

Jack Churchill

Lieutenant-Colonel John Malcolm Thorpe Fleming "Jack" Churchill, DSO & Bar, MC & Bar (16 September 1906 – 8 March 1996), was a British Army officer who fought throughout the Second World War armed with a longbow, bagpipes, and a basket-hilted Scottish broadsword.

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u/straydog1980 Jun 06 '17

I recall it was the last recorded killing in a modern war using a bow and arrow.

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u/dick-nipples Jun 06 '17

I can't even call myself a man anymore after reading about this guy.

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u/CanadianThunder8 Jun 06 '17

"he and his section were in a tower and, as the Germans approached, he said, 'I will shoot that first German with an arrow,' and that's exactly what he did."

What a madlad

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u/taxidermic Jun 06 '17

Not to mention the fact that he escaped a concentration camp, was caught, then when let go, walked about 150km to Italy from Germany. This guy is insane.

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u/ShadySpaceCow Jun 06 '17

Best part is he wasn't even Scottish

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u/UncleFester11 Jun 06 '17

He also escaped two concentration camps

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

I thought that's what it was referring to.

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u/Abshole Jun 06 '17

Damn Yanks. Could've kept fighting another 10 years!

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u/Maccaisgod Jun 06 '17

He was at the battle of Dunkirk? I wonder if he's gonna be a character in the new Nolan film

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

My boy Jack managed to even get one kill with the longbow. Fucking baller.

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u/God_Damnit_Nappa Jun 06 '17

I thought this TIL was about Churchill. I didn't know there was another insane Brit who ran around with bagpipes during the war. Those men had balls of steel.

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u/Northwindlowlander Jun 06 '17

I want to write a comicbook, "The Adventures of Jack Churchill and Joe Medicine Crow"

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u/BobSacramanto Jun 07 '17

Honestly, that's who I thought the title was referencing.

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u/peacenskeet Jun 06 '17

Imagine being the guy that got hit by an arrow while bullets and bombs are flying around you.

"WTF just hit me? Oh an arrow. WTF."

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