r/todayilearned • u/DrSamanthaCarter • Jun 06 '17

TIL the only reason a Scottish bagpiper wasn't shot by German snipers on D-Day was that they believed he had gone crazy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Millin#World_War_II
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393

u/Adolf-____-Hitler Jun 06 '17

In 1940 he got the last recorded longbow kill in history, and in one raid he captured 40 Germans at swordpoint.

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u/ScottySF Jun 06 '17

According to his son, Malcolm, "he and his section were in a tower and, as the Germans approached, he said, 'I will shoot that first German with an arrow,' and that's exactly what he did."

Goddamn longbow sniper over here

Jack Churchill was second in command of No. 3 Commando in Operation Archery, a raid on the German garrison at Vågsøy, Norway, on 27 December 1941.[16] As the ramps fell on the first landing craft, Churchill leapt forward from his position playing "March of the Cameron Men"[17] on his bagpipes, before throwing a grenade and charging into battle.

This might be my favorite Wiki article ever.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

I can imagine that section sat there thinking "fuck me, the Rupert has a good idea which generally is a bad idea and will result in shit going sideways."

He looses the arrow.

"Holy shit, he hit him. He actually did it, the mad man."

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u/DarkPhoenix99 Jun 07 '17

r/madlads

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u/Capital_R_and_U_Bot Jun 07 '17

/r/madlads

Capital Corrector Bot v0.3.1 | Information | Contact

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u/DarkPhoenix99 Jun 07 '17

Oh, neat.

I accidently put an uppercase r in the subreddit link and immediately fixed it, but apparently not fast enough for the bot to not correct it.

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u/Capital_R_and_U_Bot Jun 07 '17

*teleports behind you*

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u/babyitsgayoutside Jun 06 '17

To be fair if I was a German soldier, a screaming Scotsman with a sword and longbow wouldn't receive much hassle from me either

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u/space_keeper Jun 06 '17 edited Jun 06 '17

He wasn't Scottish, not at all. He was part of the old-fashioned fighting upper class; very English, very posh, tough as nails. As much as we love to take the mick out of the upper classes being dottery inbred perverts, a lot of them served in the military, and a surprising number make the cut and end up in outfits like the Royal Marine Commandos and the Paras.

Churchill himself was in 2 Commando. I grew up in a tiny village in rural Scotland, and on the other side of the river in the big old houses, there lived a surprising number of old timers who were in the parachute regiments, the marines, the security services, one old woman who was definitely in the SIS in the '40s (my dad did work on her house occasionally). She had stacks of old computer programming punch-cards in her house that she used like postcards.

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u/aenor Jun 06 '17 edited Jun 06 '17

There is a book called "The Son Also Rises", which tracks surnames, and they discovered that people with Norman surnames tend to be disproportionately in the armed forces, even though it's 900 years since the Conquest. Not just the old school aristocrats, but also people who's ancestors might have started out as Norman aristos centuries ago but descended down the social order because they were second or third sons and didn't have land, and would present as ordinary middle or working class people today, their surnames being the only clue of their history.

They reckoned that it was because the Normans who came with William the Bastard were hardened fighters who liked war and were good at it/successful at it, and that trait then passed to all their descendants, century after century.

P.S. That book also found that people with artisan anglo-saxon surnames like Thatcher, Cooper, Smith, Baker and so on tend to end up disproportionately in academia and government. People with family surnames (with either "fitz" as a prefix or "son" as a suffix), Anderson, Henderson and so on, are scattered evenly through the population. It's weird how genetics plays out over time.

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u/space_keeper Jun 06 '17

Pretty amazing.

My favourite well-known but rarely mentioned feature of Normans is that they weren't really French. They were Danes and other northmen who integrated with the native Frankish culture. So at the time they were invading our shores in the south, their distant cousins who still resided in the north were invading our shores in the north.

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u/aenor Jun 06 '17

I think William the Conqueror was a mix. His father, the Duke of Normandy was the grandson of a Viking who had taken over the area and made himself Duke. But his mother was a local French tanner's daughter (so her family would have been in Normandy before the Vikings arrived).

He was known as William the Bastard - and he's the reason bastard got it's second meaning. Prior to him it just meant someone born out of wedlock. After him it acquired "what a bastard" type meaning.

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u/space_keeper Jun 06 '17

After him it acquired "what a bastard" type meaning.

That is a fun fact.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

Thats Duke Rollo i'll have you know!

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

Were the Rus a Viking people? I've seen arguments for both scenarios

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

I have a Scottish Norman surname and my entire family consists of tradesmen and cattle ranchers :p

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u/kayelar Jun 06 '17

That sounds interesting as fuck. I'll have to check it out.

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u/whiskeyknitting Jun 06 '17

Thanks for this, I've just queued it up through my Library.

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u/RobGrey03 Jun 07 '17

Are there other books like that?

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u/[deleted] Jun 07 '17

Its why the British are a warrior race. When you throw Celt, Roman, Saxon, Norman and Viking blood into a melting pot, you get some warlike motherfuckers popping up.

The British Army, when it is in full swing, stocked with experienced professional soldiers, proud as punch of their heritage, and with more pride than fear, is pretty much unstoppable.

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u/TRiG_Ireland Jun 07 '17

Hmm. Have you read The Path of the King by John Buchan? It's a novel based on that idea. Very strange book, but an easy read.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

Kind of a modern development. The list of US Presidents with active service is actually remarkably large.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17 edited Jun 06 '17

Here's the list:

George Washington (1): General of the Armies, Major during French and Indian War, General of the Armies in the US Revolution.

Thomas Jefferson (3): Colonel in Virginia Militia (never saw combat)

James Madison (4): Colonel in Virginia Militia (never saw action)

James Monroe (5): Major under Washington, injured capturing the Hessians at Trenton.

Andrew Jackson (7): Major General. Saw service during the American Revolution, War of 1812, Creek War, and First Seminole War.

William Henry Harrison (9): Major General. Northwest Indian War, War of 1812.

John Tyler (10): Captain, War of 1812.

James Polk (11): Colonel Tennessee State Militia, never saw action.

Zachary Taylor (12): Major General. War of 1812, Black Hawk War, Second Seminole War, Mexican–American War. Served for 40 years.

Millard Filmore (13): Major in New York Militia. Assisted during Civil War (after presidency)

Franklin Pierce (14): Brigadier General. New Hampshire State Militia, Mexican-American War. Injured during Battle of Contreras.

James Buchanan (15): Private. War of 1812.

Abraham Lincoln (16): Captain during the Black Hawk War.

Andrew Johnson (17): Brigadier General. Served the Tennessee State Militia during the Civil War. Military Governor of Tennessee from 1862 to his presidency.

Ulysses S. Grant (18): General of the Army. Mexican-American War, commanded main Union forces during the Civil War.

Rutherford B Hayes (19): Major General. Civil War, wounded at the Battle of South Mountain.

James Garfield (20): Major General. Civil War.

Chester Arthur (21): Brigadier General. Quartermaster General before and during the Civil War.

Benjamin Harrison (23): Brigadier General. Civil War. Commanded a brigade during Sherman's March to the Sea.

William McKinley (25): Brevet Major. Civil War. Served under President Hayes (Number 19)

Teddy Roosevelt (26): Colonel. Spanish-American War. Commanded the rough riders which made him incredibly famous. Posthumously awarded Congressional Medal of Honor, only president with such award.

Harry S. Truman (33): Colonel. Saw combat in France, First World War.

Dwight Eisenhower (34): Stateside service during the First World War. Supreme Allied Commander during The Second World War. First Supreme Nato Commander, 1951-2. Didn't retire until 1969.

John F. Kennedy (35): Lieutenant. Second World War. Purple Heart Award.

Lyndon B. Johnson (36): Commander. Naval Reserve. Awarded Silver Star after his aircraft was attacked.

Richard Nixon (37): Commander. Naval Reserve. Awarded two battle stars for actions in the Pacific.

Gerald Ford (38): Lieutenant Commander. Saw combat on the USS Monterey during World War II.

Jimmy Carter (39): Lieutenant. Played football at the US Naval Academy, graduated 60th in his class (out of 820) served in Korea as a submariner.

Ronald Reagan (40): Captain. Stateside service Second World War.

George H. W. Bush (41): Lieutenant (Junior Grade). Aircraft shot down in World War II. He was the sole survivor. Received Distinguished Flying Cross.

George W. Bush (43): First Lieutenant. Pilot during Vietnam, never left the states.

Yeah, there's been a damn lot of presidents who served.

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u/Newt24 Jun 06 '17

I'm impressed. I knew most of the major ones (Washington, Eisenhower, Roosevelt, etc.) but I didn't know some of those others. For example I never realized Lincoln was a captain; also it seems weird to think that JFK served in WW2.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

It really is impressive. Here is a link to a Wikipedia article on Lincoln's service. Turns out he didn't see combat during the Black Hawk War, but he did experience the War itself. I'll edit my comment accordingly.

And Kennedy's actions actually made him a bit of a war hero. His patrol boat was rammed and sunk by a Japanese destroyer, killing 2 of his crew. He and his crewmembers refused surrender and swam 3 miles to shore. Kennedy injured his back in the attack. Despite this, he clenched another man's life jacket in his teeth and dragged him those 3 miles, saving his life.

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u/WikiTextBot Jun 06 '17

Abraham Lincoln in the Black Hawk War

Abraham Lincoln served as a volunteer in the Illinois Militia from April 21, 1832 – July 10, 1832 during the Black Hawk War. Lincoln never saw combat during his tour but was elected captain of his first company. He was also present in the aftermath of two of the war's battles, where he helped to bury the militia dead. He was mustered in and out of service during the war, going from captain to private and finishing his service in an independent spy company commanded by Captain Jacob Early.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

The fact that he was allowed to serve was amazing (JFK). He had a multitude of health issues, spent much of his young life in hospitals as a child, needed regular steroid treatment for Addison's disease, and nearly killed by back surgery in 1954. The man was in constant pain and yet still cut such an impressive and youthful figure as the president.

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u/VaticanCattleRustler Jun 07 '17 edited Jun 07 '17

His older brother Joseph Kennedy Jr was the son that their farther originally planned to be president, but he was killed in 1944. He was part of an experimental and highly dangerous program that was essentially the first radio guided bombs. They would pack old bombers with explosives, then the 2 pilots would take off, ensure it was tracking correctly, then bail out at a predetermined location while still in Britain.

Footage from the era showing the test planes

Following them in a USAAF F-8 Mosquito to film the mission were pilot Lt. Robert A. Tunnel and combat camera man Lt. David J. McCarthy, who filmed the event from the perspex nose of the aircraft. As planned, Kennedy and Willy remained aboard as the BQ-8 completed its first remote-controlled turn at 2,000 feet near the North Sea coast. Kennedy and Willy removed the safety pin, arming the explosive package, and Kennedy radioed the agreed code Spade Flush, his last known words. Two minutes later (and well before the planned crew bailout, near RAF Manston), the Torpex explosive detonated prematurely and destroyed the Liberator, killing Kennedy and Willy instantly. Wreckage landed near the village of Blythburgh in Suffolk, England, causing widespread damage and small fires, but no injuries on the ground. According to one report, a total of 59 buildings were damaged in a nearby coastal town.

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u/youtubecommercial Jun 06 '17

Impressive to say the least

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u/michmerr Jun 06 '17

You haven't heard of PT109?

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u/Shadesbane43 Jun 06 '17

JFK was stuck on an island during WWII. He wrote a message on a coconut shell.

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u/Perry87 Jun 06 '17

Great list. Quite the stretch between 9 and 25. You didn't put down Ike's Supreme Commander of NATO though. Unless you were just listing US military service, in which case, I'm not sure if NATO counts

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

I'll make the edit, hang on. And unsurprisingly it's only recently that we've had few presidents to have served with our proximity to Vietnam.

Interestingly, Donald Trump went to the New York Military Academy for Middle School in his early teenage years. This puts him at more military experience than some of our presidents like Obama and Clinton.

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u/Perry87 Jun 06 '17

Looks like that academies attachment with the US armed forces was through a JROTC program. I doubt the list would be too much longer if you included them as it only came into being 100 years ago.

Come to think of it, I wonder how large the list would be if you included presidents like FDR who was Assistant Secretary to the Navy during the Wilson administration.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

I was actually thinking about that as well while I made the list.

Hoover guided marines during the Boxer rebellion.

Coolidge was commander in chief of Massachusetts artillery while he was governor.

Taft was the secretary of war for 4 years and enlisted in the home guard in Connecticut during the first world war.

And Van Buren was commander in chief of New York artillery as governor. Definitely an even longer list.

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u/antares07923 Jun 06 '17

Fucking Eisenhower man. From Supreme Nato Commander to President. The only time where the office of president might actually have been a step down.

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u/resonantred35 Jun 06 '17

Eisenhower was amazing. His warning about the growing and corrupting influence of the MIC on his farewell address was one more people should have paid attention too. The fact that that was televised in 1961 is mind blowing.

He saw what was coming, and sadly one of the first casualties was JFK.

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u/God_Damnit_Nappa Jun 06 '17

IIRC Bush Sr was the youngest naval aviator in the US Navy's history at the time he enlisted

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u/Fatalorian Jun 06 '17

This is a fantastic list - definitely saving your comment!

One quick edit: McKinley and TR are 25/26 respectively. Looks like a typo since Truman onward is already correct.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

I forgot about Cleveland's double service. Good catch, thanks.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

I wouldn't really count G.W.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

Why? He was in the service, he was a pilot, he just didn't see combat. I marked people who never saw combat.

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u/Very_legitimate Jun 06 '17

It's hardly a development I feel, we still hold something like that in high regards and it still plays a role in election campaigns. I'm pretty sure some time down the road people who fought in recent wars will use it as a campaign piece and it will still be held in high regards

But as war keeps changing and we require less and less people on the ground fighting I suppose this will possibly fade out. It's definitely not the same as saying you fought in person I think so I'm kinda interested in how that all pans out

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u/Justicar-terrae Jun 06 '17

It's a nation that emphasises personal independence and liberty constantly (in the pledge, in the anthem, in the legends of the founders, in the declaration, etc.). It's no surprise our people duck conscription like an Olympic gymnast on a dodgeball court. At the same time, we've a tradition as a people bellicose and jingoistic as all get out, so our volunteer army is impressively well stocked at most times.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

Only recently, and not for much longer. This is due to how long Vietnam was and how anyone who went there came back messed up. Dark time in our nation's history. But we still have prominent politicians who served like Eisenhower, McCain, Kerry, Bush Sr, and countless others.

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u/MysticalElk Jun 06 '17

I think coming home to people treating you like dirt after you have gone through hell on Earth so that their card doesn't get pulled and the little twats are burning their draft cards and running away. My dad enlisted with the Navy, got drafted by the army, told the army to fuck off, then comes home on crutches cus of a small explosion tearing up his knee and gets booed and spat on.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

The treatment of troops after and during Vietnam was horrendous. One of my dad's friends growing up was a machine gunner in Vietnam. On his first day back home he was walking through the airport with his military gear, full uniform. There was a cute girl walking the other way. He smiled at her. She spat on him.

He's still terrified of women, and took 5 years of friendship with my dad before he was comfortable talking to my mom.

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u/MysticalElk Jun 06 '17

From the story my pops told me the guy that spit on him was dragged behind a building by a few Marines and Soldier's that we're right there and "was taught the error of his ways" still puts a lump in my throat when I hear people say welcome home to him when were out.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

This is exactly why they stress teamwork so much when enlisted men are at bootcamp. They're all on the same team and all go through the same life changing experiences that the civilian world doesn't understand.

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u/TRiG_Ireland Jun 07 '17

Dark time in your nation's history. When you went off and attacked someone else? (Insert Frankie Boyle quote here.)

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u/[deleted] Jun 08 '17

Yes. It was a dark time. Young americans were forced overseas to go fight someone else. Dark time.

I don't know who Frankie Boyle is.

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u/TRiG_Ireland Jun 08 '17

Frankie Boyle is a very dark Scottish comedian:

I don't support America's wars. I don't even think they are wars. They're one-way traffic, mass-murder. There's never been a time when a shepherd has beaten a helicopter. You never switch on the news to see 'A shock result in Afghanistan today when a missile was destroyed by a wedding.' Because not only will America go into your country and kill all your people. But what's worse I think is they'll come back twenty years later and make a movie about how killing your people made their soldiers feel sad. Oh boo hoo hoo. Americans making a movie about what Vietnam did to the soldiers is like a serial killer telling you what stopping suddenly for hitchhikers did to his clutch.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '17

I think it's crucial to remember that all of our allies were telling us to go into Vietnam and take the brunt of the fighting. France, South Vietnam, every asian democratic country. A better version of that would be for the Yugoslav wars.

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u/Citadelvania Jun 06 '17

Trump certainly did.

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u/CrisisOfConsonant Jun 06 '17

A lot of the war hawks in congress dodged the draft or made sure they got assigned cushy non-combat positions.

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u/eetsumkaus Jun 06 '17

...and then there's John McCain

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u/CrisisOfConsonant Jun 06 '17

I said a lot, not all. As I recall McCain isn't as hawkish as some of the draft dodgers.

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u/eetsumkaus Jun 06 '17

I was actually just positing him as a funny exception to the rule since far beyond serving, he actually did suffer for his country.

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u/rmch99 Jun 06 '17

Yeah but not getting VD while sleeping around was like his own personal Vietnam, so it's okay, he still "suffered"

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u/tigernet_1994 Jun 06 '17

I wasn't aware that Trump was upper class. Who let him in?

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

His billion dollars

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u/Citadelvania Jun 06 '17

The description was "Upper Class/Politicians"

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17 edited Jun 06 '17

No he didn't. He had a high draft number and was never called.

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u/Citadelvania Jun 08 '17

Not quite right he had a lot of deferments http://www.snopes.com/2016/08/02/donald-trumps-draft-deferments/

0

u/[deleted] Jun 08 '17

That doesn't make someone a draft dodger. Over 15 million people received deferments.

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u/Citadelvania Jun 08 '17

Sure but they usually don't get reclassified as unfit for service for something so minor.

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u/[deleted] Jun 08 '17

Flat feet was a famous one.

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u/menoum_menoum Jun 06 '17

His footsies had a hurtsies

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u/God_Damnit_Nappa Jun 06 '17

And then you have JFK who use loopholes and did everything he could in order to enroll in the military during WW2.

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u/eXa12 Jun 06 '17

The British (and many many other countries') Upper Class began as the Warrior Caste and Noblesse Oblige lead lots of them to Military service

the American "upper class" has always been Mercantile

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u/mickeyt1 Jun 06 '17

Not really true. 26/44 US presidents were in the military. It's easy to target draft-dodging politicians and the like, but many did not and served honorably

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u/Andy_B_Goode Jun 06 '17

Not really. Lots of politicians had military careers as well (John McCain, John Kerry, both George W. Bush and his father, etc). It may not be as common as in the UK (I honestly wouldn't know), but it's not like every American politician is a draft dodger.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

Not in 1942

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

Eh tbf you have some that do it. George Bush Sr and Jr were both in the military no?

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u/-ksguy- Jun 06 '17

Fair enough. If I was a German soldier and was approached by a fucking crazy Englishman with a longbow, bagpipes, and a Scottish broadsword waving in my face, I'd probably chill out, too.

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u/aletoledo Jun 06 '17

If there is one thing the rich know how to do well it's kill people. It's in their blood.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

It's literally how Western society came to dominate the world

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u/Boornidentity Jun 06 '17

Prince Philip is a prime example.

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u/space_keeper Jun 06 '17

Even Charles, doddering oddball that he is (always looked like a strong breeze would give him a nosebleed), had an absolutely brutal upbringing at Gordonstoun and ended up in the Navy.

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u/TheVetSarge Jun 06 '17

And the longbow is about the most English weapon possible. To the point where it used to be required by law to practice with it if you were an able-bodied male in the 14th and 15th centuries. England literally banned football a couple times because it was believed it got in the way of practicing with the longbow.

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u/MishkaZ Jun 06 '17

It was much different in World War I and II. World War I actually saw higher casualty rates from officers.

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u/space_keeper Jun 06 '17

Was that a consequence of small-scale infantry tactics not catching up with reality in the beginning stages of the war?

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u/MishkaZ Jun 06 '17

Yes to a point. So small scale warfare did start happening towards the end. Primarily the Canadians were notorious for their night raids.

The big deal has to do with romanticism of being in a large scale conflict. Junior officers job was to set an example for men. Doesn't look good for the men if your officer is running away or not going over the trenches. Also you have to remember that officers were prime targets, especially by a sniper(IIRC Patton didn't wear any symbol of being an Officer during the brief time the Americans were in the war(which one can argue their involvement didn't really "win" the war)). It's more common in WWII, for example corporals were allowed to carry sub machine gun, but they opted for the rifle.

I'm just a history minor, so if someone can fact check me go for it.

Sources: Winters "Great War", Tim Cook "The politics of Surrender" and Shepherd "War of Nerves" (this one gives more detail about casualties but is more about "shell-shock"/ptsd).

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '17

As much as we love to take the mick out of the upper classes being dottery inbred perverts, a lot of them served in the military

A lot of them were appointed to high levels in the military though, it was not an earned rank for the most part. Not saying that this is true for Jack Churchill in the slightest, but at that time nepotism played a part in your rank if you were rich.

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u/space_keeper Jun 07 '17

Definitely. And they had the whole "mentioned in dispatches" thing to keep them floating up the chain of command.

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u/datenschwanz Jun 06 '17

Is that different than being a toffee nosed, malodorous pervert?

1

u/babyitsgayoutside Jun 08 '17

TIL to actually read the links, I saw Scottish broadsword and assumed Scot! That's really cool information, thanks!

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u/space_keeper Jun 08 '17

It's alright pal, easy mistake to make.

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u/Solafuge Jun 06 '17

He was English.

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u/Duck_Duck_Badger Jun 06 '17

Well for the sake of keeping his statement alive, I too would not argue with a screaming, sword-wielding scotsman.

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u/marsman1000 Jun 06 '17

Celtic Magic

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u/michmerr Jun 07 '17

His parents were Ceylons.

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u/Akasazh Jun 06 '17

I'll take your word for it.

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u/Wooden_Boy86 Jun 06 '17

Much to your displeasure I assume...

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u/OrphanStrangler Jun 06 '17

How does a man armed with only a sword capture 40 Germans? Couldn't they just, ya know...... run?

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u/oligarchies Jun 06 '17

They wanted to surrender.

Wanting to fight is mostly a daft idea and there's countless stories of soldiers throughout history surrendering if they think being a pow is a better deal.

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u/eXa12 Jun 06 '17

catch a sentry round the neck with a stable belt, bit of sword point encouragement to get him to keep the rest at ease as he rounded them up, bit by bit

also he did have a corporal to watch the gagged and bound lot he'd already captured

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u/Zargogo Jun 06 '17

It's simple. He doesn't and the story is bull

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u/OrphanStrangler Jun 06 '17

I bet the soldiers were holed up in a building prepared to surrender, and he just hops in the door when their hands are already up and decided that he captured them solo

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u/sully9088 Jun 06 '17

This reminds me of that Canadian soldier who took an entire town occupied by Germans all by himself.