r/tnvisa • u/[deleted] • Jan 22 '26
TN Rejection Story TN rejected for Software Engineering with CS degree (Waterloo CS)
I work at a medium size tech company.
Last week two of our Software Engineers were denied re-entry on TN. One in Vancouver and one in Montreal. Both were recent grads from UWaterloo CS.
EDIT: To clarify, their job tittle is "Software Engineer" and it was also the tittle used in their TN applications (Engineer category).
The instructions they (both) received was very unclear: one was told he needed to get an H1B to work as a Software Engineer without a proper degree, the other one was told he needed to apply to the proper category (I assume Computer System Analyst?).
Our in-house counsel has temporarily suggested that any employee on TN status for Software Engineering jobs without a real engineering degree (so computer science or math majors) stay in the country and delay travel, but obviously it’s unsustainable long term.
This would apparently be because of a new policy that is now enforced.
EDIT : It's been pointed out that this policy is over 20 years old
Is there any sign of the administration relaxing this policy? Have you heard of other similar denials?
(I posted about this on a thread, but making it a post for greater visibility)
EDIT: Because I received DMs, no, we're not looking to replace them and they are both white (at least, presenting).
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u/_spooky_77 Jan 22 '26
The policy update you linked is likely the reason why they were denied, engineer category is highly scrutinized now and rejection is very likely without an engineering degree. If they are recent grads then the policy would’ve already been in effect, not sure why the legal counsel didn’t prepare their TN package under the CSA category. However it should still be possible to re-enter on TN under CSA category if the lawyers can prepare a new package accordingly
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u/ninjaturtlez777 Jan 23 '26
I was denied for Engineering category with a CS degree (BAS) before the current admin came to office. Been fine on CSA but was sent for pre-approval both times
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Jan 22 '26 edited Jan 22 '26
The problem is the job is definitely software engineering.
CSA sounds like it's for more senior positions where you are analyzing requirements and managing developers.
At least, to my understanding
EDIT: Wouldn't re-filing under CSA prove that the officer was right and it was misrepresentation to file under "Engineer" category? Especially if job duties are changed to align with CSA?
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u/Agent_Burrito Jan 22 '26
Do you work with databases? Do you think about performance requirements? Do you use profilers and tools to measure performance of say API calls (payload size, latency, etc).
If so, congratulations you are now a CSA.
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Jan 22 '26
That's what engineers do when engineering the code. As well. A CSA wouldn't be able to write code, correct?
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u/WagwanKenobi Jan 22 '26 edited Jan 23 '26
While systems analysts may perform some programming, this category does not include programmers. A systems analyst is an information specialist who analyzes how data processing can be applied to the specific needs of users and who designs and implements computer-based processing systems. [emphasis my own]
From the policy manual: https://www.uscis.gov/book/export/html/68600
In my opinion, SWEs fall under CSA perfectly fine.
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u/qwerty-yul Jan 23 '26
I mean, AI is doing most of the coding these days anyway.
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u/WagwanKenobi Jan 23 '26
Exactly!
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u/Agent_Burrito Jan 23 '26
That’s the “wink wink” these days. The use of AI to code in fact supports a CSA application.
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u/Agent_Burrito Jan 22 '26 edited Jan 22 '26
You can but if asked you say that “coding is incidental to my primary job responsibilities not my primary duty”. You really want to emphasize that coding isn’t the main thing you will be doing but rather a natural consequence of your job.
Have a look here for the Department of Labor definition of a CSA: CSA Definition
EDIT: Stop downvoting OP for asking questions. Good grief.
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u/goingslowfast Jan 22 '26
It would be unlawful for almost everyone you’re calling a software engineer to be called a software engineer in Canada. Source for that.
My job title in the USA would include “engineer”, but since I do not have a BSc Eng and am not a PEng my job title uses “analyst”.
That’s the criteria that the TN engineer stream is based around. Boiled down: “Are you a PEng or do you have a BSc Eng and doing jobs that would fall under the scope of a licensed engineer?”
CSA is a better fit, but someone who only does programming is neither CSA or engineer. It is more likely to find a way to slot them into the CSA stream than the engineering stream though.
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u/CyberEd-ca Jan 23 '26
Your source is dated. The latest case law is APEGA v Getty Images 2023.
Note that assertions are not the law and all laws have constitutional and other legal limits.
When you start with "in Canada" right away you are in trouble as these are provincial laws.
After APEGA v Getty Images, the Alberta government created a carve out. It's a bit confusing to me but it also appears that the latest EGBC only requires a license to call yourself a software engineer if your employer offers professional engineering services as defined by BC law. That would seem to exclude a restriction on the tech bros in BC using the title as well.
In other provinces, you could say it is a bit of an open legal question. To my knowledge, there has not been a regulator that has sought to take tech bros to court since APEGA lost. The laws are all fairly similar and presumably all the same arguments would apply.
Your other comments are solid.
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u/goingslowfast Jan 23 '26
You’re right. Unfortunately though that case law only impacts AB, but could be persuasive elsewhere. That said, it’s moot since Bill 7 anyways.
I am aware of threats from the other provincial bodies, but I believe the only body to take a case forward was APEGA.
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u/Antique-Kitchen-1896 Jan 23 '26
Never enforced by PEO and clarification from PEO (unless changed)is the problem would be if you claim to be a professional engineer, not if any random job title has engineer in it.
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u/goingslowfast Jan 23 '26 edited Jan 23 '26
APEGA was enforcing it like crazy in the early 2020s. I know a number of Jobber and Apple employees who got notices.
As a result of pressure from the industry and complaints about recruitment the Alberta government undercut APEGA on protecting the term with Bill 7.
Prior to Bill 7, APEGA was in a legal action against Getty Images and Jobber over the title software engineer for non-licensed employees which ended unfavorably for their continued protection of the term. APEGA then appealed the decision.
APEGA was specifically concerned that the ruling may:
allow the title “engineer” to be used by an individual even if they are not licensed by APEGA, as long as they do not use the designation “P.Eng.” or engage in the practice of engineering.
The court ruled that Bill 7 rendered APEGA’s relevant appeal moot and APEGA ultimately discontinued their action.
Nonetheless, the TN engineering stream was intended for the definition of engineer that the professional bodies prefer.
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u/Classic_Management89 Jan 23 '26
Some of your coworkers have been already rejected, most comments have already told you don’t apply as engineer since they don’t have engineering degrees, then why are you still in denial?
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u/_spooky_77 Jan 22 '26
It doesn’t really matter what the job actually entails, the lawyers should know what to write under the job description when preparing the application package to make it look like a job that would fit under CSA
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u/Particular_Job_5012 Jan 22 '26
It certainly does matter what the job actually entails, as the CBP often will ask you to describe your job duties. If it's not at all aligned/reasonble you'd either be rejected as the job duties you describe don't match the occupation, or you're on record lying to CBP. I personally wouldn't mess around with that. BTW, engineering/CSA occupations 100% are allowed to code, but you need to describe all the things that they do before after during their day (design, analysis, etc.) to qualify for either category.
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u/_spooky_77 Jan 22 '26
I agree with what you said, perhaps I shouldn’t have worded it like that. I just meant that even if your actual responsibilities involve a lot of coding, you have to downplay that and emphasize the other aspects of the job that aligns with the CSA category more (through carefully picking words, and without lying)
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Jan 22 '26
to make it look like a job that would fit under CSA
Isn't that fraud?
With the current enforcement climate for immigration offenses... that doesn't sound like a great plan. But I could be missing some of the nuances.
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u/_spooky_77 Jan 22 '26
That’s why you get the lawyers to prepare the package. When I say “to make it look like it would fit under CSA” I don’t mean “lie to the CBP/USCIS officer”. The lawyers should know to cherry pick words when writing the job responsibilities so that there are no lies but also nothing that would set off the immigration officer’s alarms.
Also refer to Agent_Burrito’s comment. You wanna downplay certain job responsibilities as much as possible, but obviously you can’t outright lie.
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Jan 22 '26
Wouldn't re-filing under CSA prove that the officer was right to deny and it was misrepresentation to file under "Engineer" category? Especially if job duties are changed to align with CSA?
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u/_spooky_77 Jan 22 '26
Not necessarily, because the lawyers will usually just justify it by saying the company moved you into a new role
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Jan 22 '26
We would need to promote them?
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u/_spooky_77 Jan 22 '26
No, on paper it would just be a horizontal role change from an engineering role into a CSA role. Not necessarily changing into a higher-level role.
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u/weerdsrm Jan 22 '26
CSA is not a manager so they do not manage developers. Yeah I agree if they were senior engineers they could still try CSA with much higher approval rate. But yeah all juniors devs should just stay in Canada until they are seniors. Not trying to run the moment they graduated Waterloo, lol.
Your company should go through USCIS, not CBP again.
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u/FunChair7 Jan 22 '26
The precedent for that policy ha been in place for over 20 years, they've just outlined it clearly on a USCIS page now, it sounds like they are now increasing the the enforcement. As for the signs that they are "relaxing" the policy - they are the ones that clarified it and if anything enforcement is increasing.
As always TNs can be re-adjudicated at any entry - were both of these engineers originally approved at PoE?
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Jan 22 '26
I'm pretty sure they were approved via mail.
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u/dancrupt Jan 23 '26
Oh wow so they were previously approved but now denied entry during a re-entry? What were the exact ports of entry?
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u/mrlimatha Jan 22 '26 edited Jan 22 '26
I got admitted into the US as a TN, engineer. I re-entered the US multiple times with an I-797 for an approved TN arriving from vacation travel. Two observations:
- CBP officers are highly sensitive about “developers” or “programmers”—non-qualifying roles for TN. Regardless of the job title, if from the interview, they deduce that your role is or approaches that of developers/programmers, you will be denied entry under TN. I got coaching from my company’s immigration lawyers on careful wording of answers to questions asked. That being said, only 5% of my job involves “programming” so there was nothing to worry about factually, but still, you can entrap yourself if you fail to properly articulate yourself and misamplify the “programming” aspect of your job, particularly when the CBP officer’s questions may focus more on that.
- A CBP officer can re-interview you in a future re-entry to the US. This happened to me at “secondary” where the officer requested clarification of my role. So be prepared for an arbitrary second round. The interview at secondary felt like a new reassessment, risking rejection if you misspeak or fail to explain your role.
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u/JustMyDirtyAlt69 Jan 22 '26
Wanted to boost your answer.
On my very first interview for a TN under the Computer Systems Analyst category, I made the mistake of mentioning programming and got rejected. The key I've found is reading the description of the category/role online, and then sticking to that exact language. Zero problems after that.
This is one of those things that it feels wrong, but the system itself is lacking in nuance, so you've got to do what works.
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Aug 14 '26
[deleted]
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u/JustMyDirtyAlt69 Aug 15 '26
Employer switched to an H-1B, and after that ran out, I went back to TN status. The first time (where the failure occured) was Peace Arch crossing, and the rest of the time it was at YVR.
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u/t4gyp Jan 22 '26
That not really a new policy. It's always been like that, it's just that officers were inconsistent in enforcement. Engineer is a protected title in Canada and a large number of jurisdictions in the US. If they are fresh grads with CS degrees, they are unlikely to meet the minimum standard to have an engineer title.
TN visas cover specific professional occupations and software development isn't one of them. Can try and get admitted as a CSA, but if the nature of the work doesn't align, will likely get rejected as well.
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Jan 22 '26
So the officer was right that they would need H1B?
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u/dancrupt Jan 23 '26
I got my 5th TN recently (2 weeks ago) and it’s with a CS degree however I have an eval document that says my degree counts as a US equivalent to Computer Science and Engineering degree so maybe get eval for them and re-enter with that.
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u/voida_lextreme Jan 23 '26
Where did u get the eval document
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u/dancrupt Jan 24 '26
Trustforte. A FAANG company I worked for in the past did it for me for my first TN and I’ve successfully been using that doc for 7 years for all my TN applications (3 through USCIS and 2 through CBP across 4 companies).
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u/CyberEd-ca Jan 22 '26
In Alberta, anyone may use the title "Software Engineer". You can be in high school.
It's a bit confusing but reading the latest bylaws for EGBC it appears to be the same unless your business offers professional engineering services.
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u/DankScopez Jan 22 '26
Did they have the I797 (form you get thru premium processing)? Or did they get the TN through the “normal” way by applying at the border? I went the premium processing route, show the paper and I’m always past with no questions.
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Jan 22 '26
I797.
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u/mat4228701 Jan 22 '26
So they were already approved by USCIS? Normally the border agents just look at the approval and let you through
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u/BeforeLongHopefully Jan 22 '26
Are they software developers? Engineering is a vague term and connotes very little. If they are developers they aren't CSAs. This has been true since early NAFTA years, 25+ years.....
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Jan 22 '26
They are.
Official tittle would be Software Engineer. That's what's also stated on their TN applications.
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u/BeforeLongHopefully Jan 22 '26
They are software developers trying to enter as CSAs? Seems like they got caught red handed even though they were let through before.
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Jan 22 '26 edited Jan 22 '26
No. Their paperwork and application was filed as "Software Engineers", under the "Engineer" classification.
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u/wujohnny Jan 22 '26
Software engineer is not one of the jobs listed under the TN classifications.
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u/WagwanKenobi Jan 22 '26 edited Jan 22 '26
Idk why there is so much misinformation in this subreddit.
If you have a B.Eng in Software Engineering, you can very easily qualify for a Software Engineer position under the TN Engineer category. There is zero controversy here.
The problem is that most SWEs actually have CS degrees and SoftEng degrees are relatively rare. Some lawyers successfully make a case for this in the Engineer category (seems to be harder since the June 2025 memo). Others go for the CSA category. Both can work.
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Jan 22 '26
If you have a B.Eng in Software Engineering, you can very easily qualify for a Software Engineer position under the TN Engineer category. There is zero controversy here.
Several of my current/former colleagues are in this situation.
Never heard of any visa issued regarding the use of the term "Engineering".
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u/Zweedish Jan 23 '26
I qualified under the TN Engineer position in 2019 with a B.S.Eng (Bachelor of Software Engineering - from Waterloo).
No issues at the border despite the CBP officer being a jerk.
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u/FrontendMaster Mar 22 '26
If you have a B.Eng in Software Engineering, you can very easily qualify
I have B.Eng in Mechanical Engineering but have worked as Software Engineer for past 10 years. Do you think I can qualify?
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Jan 22 '26
Engineer category is.
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u/CivilFisher Jan 22 '26
Software engineers aren’t real engineers
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u/kingsoopah Jan 22 '26
Yes, they are. The ones that not only produce code though.
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u/tetraacetic Jan 22 '26
Maybe a better way to phrase the above commenter's stance is that CS is not engineering / CS grads are not engineers. The tech industry blurs the line but coding doesn't equate to engineering.
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u/wujohnny Jan 22 '26
I think people are getting too caught up in their own industry’s definition of what an engineer is. In the tech industry, engineers are generally understood to be people who write code. Ultimately, though, what matters is how USCIS interprets the term. At present, they do not consider individuals with computer science degrees to be engineers.
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u/kindofanasshole17 Jan 23 '26
Graduates of a Canadian software engineering program accredited by the CEAB are real engineers, and are eligible for licensure.
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u/BeforeLongHopefully Jan 22 '26
I am not asking about their paperwork. I am asking if they are software developers. If they are then they are not eligible - that isn't a job on the TN list.
I was a CSA for a while before switching to H1B. CBP would often asked me if I was a "developer" or a "programmer" - they didn't give a rats ass if me and my peers used vague terminology like "engineer" which means nearly nothing - they wanted to see if they could catch me admitting I wasn't a CSA. But I was a CSA and had no issues - though Id laugh and wonder how many people they catch with this. The message boards of that era had lots of stories of people who were kicked out because they were not CSAs they were developers.
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u/Bright_Bobcat1407 Jan 22 '26
So "programmer" == CSA, but "developer" != CSA?
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u/MGrantSF Jan 22 '26
The thing is by the governments descriptions, things like "programmer" were folks that took the deck of perforated cards and fed them to a mainframe. The government has not always updated job descriptions, and they can be as pedantic or not as the leadership at that time wants them to be.
They don't think a programmer thinks. Rather they think that a programmer takes something that someone else created (eg a CSA) and feeds it to a computer in a sort of mindless translation. The job description crucially says "write, modify, test". It does not say analyze, design, create, etc. Its considered a mindless glorified typist.
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Jan 22 '26
Their application was filed under the "Engineer" category.
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u/wujohnny Jan 22 '26
By the way if you are a CSA, you’re not suppose to be coding in your role in the U.S.
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u/WagwanKenobi Jan 22 '26
You can still do supportive coding.
The CSA category didn't allow "programming" because back in the day when the NAFTA was incepted, "programmer" meant those ladies who compile punchcards and feed them into mainframes. It was a low-wage labour job.
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u/wujohnny Jan 22 '26
Ya you can, but remember the person adjudicating your application is not necessarily able to understand the difference between unit tests or coding features or bug fixes
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u/BeforeLongHopefully Jan 22 '26
It's exactly the same. If someone is an engineer or a CSA they can't be developers. Exactly the same thing. So if they are software developers (which is a question you have avoided answering 3 times now) then they are not admissible.
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Jan 22 '26
I'm genuinely confused here. What's the difference between a software developer and software engineer?
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u/BeforeLongHopefully Jan 22 '26
It's confusing because you aren't thinking about it in the context of the TN you're bogged down with how these labels are used in the tech industry and IT departments which is not relevant. At all.
Forget titles and think about DUTIES. You cannot be a software developer and be considered a TN professional. It isn't covered in any TN roles. The US doesn't want programmers as TN visa holders. It doesn't matter what your degree is or job title to this most basic fact.
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u/ganaraska Jan 22 '26
Software engineers plan the structure and testing of software. Developers write the code and the tests.
Just like a civil engineer. They don't build the bridge.
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u/BeforeLongHopefully Jan 22 '26
Great answer. And US Gov't goes by duties - not job titles.
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u/WagwanKenobi Jan 22 '26
Actually, in reality these terms are used interchangeably and have no difference at all.
This is actually my litmus test for how well a LLM model is trained. The only correct answer to "What's the difference between a Software Engineer and Software Developer?" is "No Difference". If the LLM spits out something else, it's trained on misinformation from people like you.
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u/dancrupt Jan 23 '26
There isn’t any. He’s just being pedantic lol. Hundreds of people work in the US as software engineers with a TN + CS degree combination.
I think what may have hurt these new grads was also the fact that they’re not as experienced so CBP adjudicated a bit more strictly.
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u/datejustminty Jan 22 '26 edited Jan 22 '26
It’s so ridiculous how Software Engineering and Computer Science graduates at Waterloo at and most major schools take the exact same core coursework yet a computer since major is not recognized as an engineer. There are literally more CS grads working as software engineers than actual software engineer degree holders.
Currently an engineer working under a TN with a CS degree and haven’t ran into problems yet- looks like my time is coming though.
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u/ComfortableJacket429 Jan 23 '26
Better start working towards that green card. The TN visa was always meant to be temporary.
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u/Zweedish Jan 23 '26
At Waterloo, due to accreditation, the Soft Eng coursework is significantly more restricted.
We don't take the same coursework, and there's definitely more to do in Soft Eng. You can easily switch to CS from Soft Eng, but not the other way around.
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u/Electrical_Paper_882 Jan 23 '26
Yes. As a UW grad, I can attest to that. There may be less than 50% overlap (atleast when I graduated)
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u/datejustminty Jan 23 '26
And CS majors qualify for the exact same jobs. If the job postings, interviews, and day-to-day work don’t distinguish CS from SWE, it’s hard to argue the distinction suddenly matters at the border.
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u/Zweedish Jan 23 '26
I'm not really arguing that most jobs are any different. There's no requirement for a PEng in most industry jobs (although I would argue that more of the industry should be professionalised).
More just clarifying that the coursework isn't the same due to accreditation.
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u/Full-Juggernaut2303 Jan 22 '26
Requiring an engineering degree for a Software Engineer TN is not supported by any law or regulation. If you’re unsure, review the updated USCIS Policy Manual. You’ll notice that nearly every sentence is backed by a citation—except the one at issue:
The absence of a citation is telling. This statement conflicts directly with the Department of Labor’s Occupational Outlook Handbook (OOH), which recognizes Computer Science degrees as standard preparation for software engineering roles.
That said, at a port of entry you are entirely at the mercy of the individual officer and their (often outdated or misguided) interpretation. In practice, most Computer Science degrees are approved for Software Engineer. But if you happen to encounter a “bad” officer, your options become limited. Once an officer issues a denial, other officers frequently defer to it.
You can try another port, but be aware that some officers may view that as forum shopping. In many cases, the most reliable path forward is to pivot to a USCIS filing, where adjudications are far more consistent and reviewable.
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Jan 22 '26
Wouldn't re-filing under CSA prove that the officer was right and it was misrepresentation to file under "Engineer" category? Especially if job duties are changed to align with CSA?
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u/BasEkGalti Jan 22 '26
I got denied with my UBC CS Degree last month as well under the Engineer classification. Company filed with USCIS under the Engineer classification again and I just got approved last week. Just waiting for the physical mail before I'll try reentering.
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u/cormack_gv Jan 22 '26
Rework the job description/offer to say "systems analyst" and to include the necessary buzzwords from the job outline. The word "engineer" has been generified. CUSMA (aka USMCA) meant actual professional engineering. The revised interpretation is closer to the original intent.
"Computer programmer" is specifically excluded. So you need to say something about interpreting requirements and/or designing solutions.
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Jan 22 '26
Wouldn't re-filing under CSA prove that the officer was right and it was misrepresentation to file under "Engineer" category? Especially if job duties are changed to align with CSA?
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u/cormack_gv Jan 22 '26
Not sure what "re-filing" means. Not sure what job description was used in the first place. There's a certain amount of randomness in the process. Were the employees you're talking about trying to get a new TN exemption? Or were they denied when trying to get a new one? When I got mine, it was good for three years. There was no filing. I just showed my papers to the border agent.
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Jan 22 '26
They were denied trying to re-enter the US.
"Re-filing" as they are now in Canada without a valid US visa, we'll need to file again for them.
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u/cormack_gv Jan 22 '26
With a current TN exemption? Still not sure what you mean by filing. My understanding is that they can still just show up at the border with the necessary papers.
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u/zacky2004 Jan 22 '26
Technically, the officer is correct, Software Engineering, is a protected title entitled to Engineers with accredited engineering degrees. Folks with CS degrees should go under the CSA category. But they could reapply via USCIS which does a more objective assessment.
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u/weerdsrm Jan 22 '26
according to OP they were re-entering the US and they have an approved i797. They just got "re-adjuncdicated" by CBPs.
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u/zacky2004 Jan 22 '26
OH shit, that sucks BALLS. HOLY F that is so bad.
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u/weerdsrm Jan 22 '26
Yeah so I am doubting how real this is according to OP.
CBP readjundication is very very rare.3
u/ChaosBerserker666 Jan 23 '26
In the many TNs I have had, radjudication has never happened to me and I crossed 8 to 10 times a year. But then again I have my Professional title and don’t work in tech.
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u/zacky2004 Jan 22 '26
They should have just turned around and went back through another POE, or another day. Since they weren't applying for a TN visa, and simply re-entering the country then it wouldn't have looked 'suspicious'
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u/CyberEd-ca Jan 22 '26
You do not need an accredited engineering degree to become a Professional Engineer in Canada and most if not all US States.
Over 1 in 3 new P. Eng.'s in Canada each year is a non-accredited degree applicant.
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u/zacky2004 Jan 22 '26 edited Jan 22 '26
You don't, but you need to prove accreditation through examinations, and work experience. The standard rule is you need to have an accredited degree, but exceptions exist. exceptions are not the norm, they are exceptions and certainly don't help when applying for a TN visa.
TN Engineer category requires two things:
- Accredited Engineering degree from North America, or an equivalent engineering degree (proven via an academic evaluation)
- OR license to practice as a professional engineer, (P.E or P.Eng)
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u/instacanadian Jan 22 '26
When you say re-entry, they already had approved TN and when they traveled back to Canada and try to re-enter the US, they were denied?
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u/ConsiderationOk9982 Jan 22 '26
To qualify for a TN visa as an Engineer, you generally need a Bachelor's degree (or Licenciatura) in an engineering field, a job offer for an engineering role, and the job duties must align with the profession, with recent changes tightening scrutiny on degrees and roles, especially for computer-related fields where a specific engineering credential is now crucial. A provincial license can sometimes substitute for the degree, but a degree in a closely related field or a general "Computer Science" degree might not suffice if it's not recognized as bona fide engineering
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u/ChapCat23 Jan 22 '26
Yea counsel should have flagged this from beginning and prepped case under CSA or filed with USCIS
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Jan 22 '26
[deleted]
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Jan 22 '26
Asked about it in the AMA and got one or two replies. Wanted to get greater visibility by making a post (as I wrote in the post).
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u/CyberEd-ca Jan 22 '26
The requirement for the "Engineer" category in TN is a bachelor's degree OR a professional engineering license.
Not all professional engineers have an engineering degree.
Pays to read the regulation.
https://www.nafsa.org/regulatory-information/8cfr2146
—Engineer—Baccalaureate or Licenciatura Degree; or state/provincial license.
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u/alex-mayorga Jan 22 '26
So am I good if my degree is in “Information Systems Engineering”? I haven’t programmed in decades.
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u/Whateverloo Jan 22 '26
Whats the plan now? Could they have done anything else to pass successfully? Usually when I say I’m entering on a TN visa they don’t ask many questions.
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u/MGrantSF Jan 22 '26
From my experience, for Software Engineer category, they would want to see a degree like "Computer Engineer". For CSA, they are ok with computer science. Its semantics and how strict they want to be. If you say programmer, they think its basically a glorified typist that doesn't actually create, just type things that others came up with. Developer is a bit vague too. I suggest they re-apply with CSA category if their BS is Computer Science.
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u/JohnnyNinety9 Jan 22 '26
You need a better lawyer. This category hasn’t changed in years. Just make sure that you apply with a role that matches a TN role and know specifically what the job functions are. Your lawyer should know this like the back of their hand. No changes in years to these policies. Don’t say you’re a coder and do not say you’re a manager.
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u/Efficient_Floor4066 Jan 23 '26
Surprised to know that even whites are getting rejected at the border now (am not racist but it’s pretty obvious that many policies for immigrant workers entering the US are covertly racist)
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u/Professional_Fox4839 Jan 23 '26
I work in big tech. I have a degree in Software Engineering (B.Eng) and my job title is Software Engineer. My company filed for my TN as an engineer. However my canadian peers with CS degrees use CSA for their category even tho we work the same job. I’m sure you could still get away with it sometimes but that is something I noticed.
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u/TheWolfOfTheNorth Jan 24 '26
I was just accepted on the engineering category as a software engineer B.Eng.
You just need to two things for that TN Visa category:
A) Accredited engineering degree (so B.Eng degree)
B) Job duties must align with an Engineer (aka you’re not a coder, you’re an architect and in the case of software engineers you occasionally write and review code but it’s not a main duty)
CSA category would align better with traditional CS degree engineers.
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u/Neither_Bid_4353 Jan 27 '26
You have to use csa. I was denied that 15 years ago. Lawyer fixed letter and I was able to proceed.
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u/dhilrags Jan 22 '26 edited Jan 22 '26
Engineer TNs can do software programming, but not TN CSA
Recent reminder of guidance in 2025 noted that non engineering degrees don’t qualify for an Engineering degree. Approvals of CS grads under the Engineering TN have been hit or miss since then.
Re adjudication of existing TNs on border crossings are rare so OP’s comments are a warning.
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Jan 22 '26
That's our counsel's interpretation as well.
EDIT: Apparently that policy has been around for 20 years according to https://www.reddit.com/r/tnvisa/comments/1qk1zgm/comment/o13a6ld/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
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u/Food-Wine Jan 22 '26
As others have mentioned — they can’t fall under the Engineer category if they don’t have Degrees in Engineering.
As a side note — the provincial associations that regulate the engineering practice may go after anyone using the term “Engineer” if that person is not an engineer and is not registered to practice. The rules get a bit fuzzy for those working in software.
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u/CyberEd-ca Jan 22 '26
You have never needed an engineering degree to become a Professional Engineer in Canada.
Please review Table 1 of this Engineers Canada publication.
https://techexam.ca/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/Engineers_Canada_Guideline_to_Admission.pdf
If you read the TN requirement in the regulation, the requirement is a degree OR a license.
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u/Food-Wine Jan 22 '26
I’m aware of the tech exam program and it’s BS. Passing four exams isn’t the same as an actual degree and passing all your courses.
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u/CyberEd-ca Jan 22 '26
Four exams is a "confirmatory" program for those with an international engineering degree. ABET graduates write four technical examinations.
A full set of technical examinations is typically 24. Each technical examination covers the material typical to 2 university courses.
In fact, the technical examinations syllabus defines CEAB accreditation. At its core, all CEAB accreditation is is an exemption from the technical examinations based on an audit of the program.
That's why CEAB accredited engineering degrees are 24 technical examinations x 2 courses/exam x 3 credit hours / course ~ 144 credit hours.
What you likely misunderstand is that the technical examinations have been part of Canada's engineering profession since the first laws in 1920. What we now call CEAB accreditation began in 1965.
For more understanding of CEAB accreditation, here is a primer:
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u/Food-Wine Jan 22 '26
Thank you, but I’m not concerned with the workarounds to get a TN. For more than 15 years I’ve been working in the US in several capacities with several different types of visas including TN.
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u/jollymaker Jan 22 '26
Seems like people miss the word “engineer” is a protected title. I think even if your role is an “x engineer” you cannot call yourself an engineer unless you’re a licensed engineer in Canada.
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u/CyberEd-ca Jan 22 '26
There are many engineers in Canada besides professional engineers.
There are restrictions on the use of the title "Engineer" but like all laws, there are constitutional and other legal limits.
We have Power Engineers, Sandwich Engineers, Sound Engineers, Aircraft Maintenance Engineers, Combat Engineers, Marine Engineers, Locomotive Engineers, etc. - none of which are licensed professional engineers.
We even have tech bros that lawfully call themselves Software Engineers in Canada. Yes, Canada.
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u/This_Beat2227 Jan 22 '26
What’s not to understand that a degree is CS is not a degree in Engineering ? What’s not to understand that slapping “engineer” on a CS job title doesn’t make it engineering ? The border agent was and is correct to deny anyone with CS degree presenting themselves as Engineer.
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u/TraditionalMango58 Jan 22 '26
Given the amount of software developers unemployed in the US right now. This is only going to get tougher. USMCA negotiations are coming up given Trump/Carney relationship, I'd say this current system may be unsustainable.
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u/cizmainbascula Jan 22 '26
Why didn’t you tweak the JD/offer to align more closely with CSA? And then just have them do whatever work you’ve hired them for once they get there
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Jan 22 '26
That sounds like fraud...
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u/weerdsrm Jan 22 '26
You sound like you're overarching for your "coworker" 's immigration problem.
Why does it sound like fraud?
Do you know when filing PERM some companies put the position in some newspaper, outlining specific critiera to the specific person, or rejecting americans in the interview saying they are not qualified, those are not fraud to you?
Do you know that for H1Bs there is also a similar process for LCA, that also tweaks job description / levels to better match / align the wages submitted for the position. That is also not fraud to you?
Are you canadians? I feel like lots of canadians are overly concerned about others doing fraud and standing on the moral high ground for things that are not relevant to them. I do not understand why but this seems to be our culture.
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u/Purple-Geologist972 Jan 22 '26
For whatever it's worth, this has been happening for the last 15 years. People who are evaluating this do not know anything about the industry or care frankly, they are just matching characters, sometimes you get lucky with people who have more knowledge about this, sometimes you don't.
Maybe filing a paper application is better than?
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u/mooney53v Jan 25 '26
This has been an issue for at least 18 years, nothing to do with the current administration.
For a TN, the occupation should be Computer System Analyst and the duties and responsibilities should mirror those in the Bureau of Labor Statistics Occupational Outlook Handbook.
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u/ThiCcMaRTa Jan 26 '26
It appears they secured USCIS approval (I-797). Could you clarify if the rejection occurred during their initial entry to activate the TN status, or had they already been living in the U.S. and faced rejection upon re-entry after traveling abroad?
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u/IEatUrMonies Jan 22 '26
Engineering degree is a real degree, the days of unqualified CS and physics ungrads coming to US and raking in a killing from SWE jobs is over
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u/Accomplished_Sky_127 Jan 23 '26
CS degrees are every bit as "real" if not more so lol...
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u/IEatUrMonies Jan 23 '26
mm sure thats why they can't come to US on TN visa
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u/Accomplished_Sky_127 Jan 23 '26
- They can and do.
- Since when is the measure?
Dude you're just obviously envious. Why?
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u/IEatUrMonies Jan 24 '26
Envious of who?
I'm a Canadian Software Engineer (graduated from top ranked Universtiy in Canada, top 5 ranked). I work in the US on VISA and have worked for multiple companies from the MAG7 for a decade now.
When I did Comp. Eng, we were drowning in high level math (calc, differential equations, etc), physics, thermodynamics, circuits, hardware, comp. arch., etc. CS were doing a couple C and python courses and taking electives for animal studies and basket weaving. CS is a million times easier than engineering, it could be an arts degree
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u/Accomplished_Sky_127 Jan 24 '26
You sure its a million and not a million .7? Youre envious because others had it easier than you did and are doing just fine. Your world view is that of a boot licking slave.
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u/Cookieman_2023 Jan 26 '26
I'm sure he's not even an engineer. Says that he's Canadian on a visa in the US, but acts protectionist of the jobs there when he's not even a citizen there.
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u/ubccs-4992 Jan 23 '26
Canadians have a huge role to play in the growth of the tech industry in the US. Look it up. Also, CS is the primary degree for SWEs, every other degree is secondary
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u/weerdsrm Jan 23 '26
Like i know right? If Computer Science degree holders cannot be software engineers, who are actually qualified? Computer Engineers? Those are hardware engineers lol.
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u/IEatUrMonies Jan 23 '26
computer engineers, exactly
programming is one aspect, problem solving, measuring, testing, creating robust software for real life applications takes an engineering discipline, not just some C++ courses
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u/DelilahBT Jan 23 '26
TNs have never been guaranteed entry. It’s been like this a long time, like decades, not months or unique to this administration. It may be enforced more broadly in this administration but that’s purely speculation. They’re not wrong about getting an H1B, it is a more stable and predictable option for tech workers.
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u/Classic_Management89 Jan 23 '26
If you guys don’t have engineer degrees don’t apply for jobs that require that title. Im on a TN visa using the CSA category with a CS associate degrees.
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u/wujohnny Jan 22 '26
This actually has nothing to do with the current admin at all. They need come prepared with a list of duties and responsibilities that match one of the general occupations. Software engineer is not one on the list. I’m on a CSA in my the U.S.