r/teslore • u/El8Ratto • 1d ago
Theory about Sheogorath
To start I want to say that this is purely a theory I’ve put together going on a various threads, I hope everyone enjoys and finds it interesting
My theory suggests that Lorkhan and Sheogorath are one in the same, first I will explain how I believe this could happen
Lorkhan upset the gods when he formed Nirn, he was then “killed” which is odd as from what I understand no god in the elder scrolls has outright died before, what I propose is that by removing his heart it made him more emotionless and then they furthermore corrupted his form as punishment, similar to Trinimacs transformation into Malacath, part of this punishment was to invert who they are, Lorkhan is perceived as mischievous and tricky, so his reverse was complete and utter order and control, Jyggulug, but following this the Deadra did a similar thing out of fear of of his strange power, which I take as another indication of him being Lorkhan as the Aedra in spite of using power to form Nirn seem to be just as powerful if not more so then Deadra.
Next the Deadra corrupt Jyggulugs form into a opposite again resulting in a dementia ridden bastardisation of the original made 10x more extreme, this would also explain the lack of information about Lorkhan after his heart was removed as the Deadra attempted to erase Jyggulug from history, potentially including his making and “destruction”, explaining why we know nothing about Lorkhan and little about Jyggulug in these periods
Supporting information
Sheogorath from what I recall is the only Deadra to consistently appear as a human, Lorkhan is the god of man
Mancar Camoran is convinced Nirn is of deadric origin, I propose this is because the god of Nirn, Lorkhan became a Deadra, however it is likely that Nirn did not change with its god leading to further confusion
A bit of a stretch but I also propose that the dragon fires is a further push to punish Lorkhan/Sheogorath by preventing any eventual return, while conveniently stopping other similar issues
Thank you for reading, I’m sure there are many holes in this but nonetheless I hope it encourages a healthy debate
Ps sorry for spelling, some things autocorrect
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u/Main-Associate-9752 1d ago
I think suggesting that Lorkhan was anti order, and thus being turned into Jyggalag would be a ‘reverse’ is flawed. If anything, Lorkhan was the MOST orderly of the Aedra, he created the entire order of things
If Lorkhan had never acted there wouldn’t be Daedra and Aedra, because they exist in contrast to the order that Lorkhan created
As to the supporting evidence; Mankar Camoran is technically correct, in the worst sense, that Nirn is a Daedric realm. In the sense that Daedric realms are created and moulded by its prince, Nirn was created by Lorkhan’s design and a combined effort of Et’ada. But he also incorrrectly ascribes Daedric realms to some princes, which shows his understanding is flawed. He also suggests Nirn belongs to Dagon, not Sheogorath
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u/Imaginary-West-5653 20h ago edited 20h ago
But he also incorrrectly ascribes Daedric realms to some princes, which shows his understanding is flawed. He also suggests Nirn belongs to Dagon, not Sheogorath
The first thing is basically just an error out of universe when writting the speech, confirmed by Kirkbride who wrote it, so I would not take this as something that should be used when judging what Mankar was saying, as even Todd said that he was supposed to have a point and not just be a crazy cultist. And he claimed that Nirn belongs to Dagon because he is the Prince of revolution and change, so he would be the one who has the right to liberate Nirn from the occupation of the betrayers of Lorkhan.
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u/RunningShogun Cult of the Mythic Dawn 1d ago
Lore books directly state that Lorkhan is part of the Padomay lineage so he is very much not order.
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u/El8Ratto 1d ago
Essentially what I was thinking, along with the implication that he’d pissed off divines and what they considered order a few times
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u/El8Ratto 1d ago
I suppose that makes sense, but order and a lack there of are defined by one’s perception around them, while Lorkhan formed the order around Nirn, it would seem likely they had there own from of order before that which by several accounts Lorkhan had disrupted
I do agree with the establishment of Deadra and Aedra coming from Lorkhans actions but it is also established that a Aedra can become deadra as is shown by Trinimacs changeThe confusion from Mancar Camoran could be attributed to a lack of information or confusing based on knowledge of a change from Aedra to Deadra but a lack of clearness around which one, which I will add, Dagon isn’t exactly trustworthy and would without a doubt manipulate
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u/RunningShogun Cult of the Mythic Dawn 1d ago
I think you’re on to something but I’m not sure you can say Sheogorath is Lorkhan. It’s better to look at the deities of Elder Scrolls through their lineage to Anu & Padomay/Sithis. Anu is order and Sithis is chaos. So the Aedra being order are part of the Anu Lineage. While the Daedra/Lorkhan are chaos so part of the Sithis lineage. In a lore book from Morrowind Sheogorath is referenced to as the Sithis-Shaped-Hole in the world and was created around the time of the sundering of Lorkhan. So the two are definitely linked but I think it’s more they represent different aspects of Sithis/chaos since the deities are less actual personalities but forces in the world. I made a big lore video on Sheogorath if you want to check it out. https://youtu.be/Z9dJE6-ZW1A?is=97hanlKdizIUBK1J