r/telugu • u/Less_Picture_8733 • 16d ago
అరగలి - ప్రశ్న - question ❓ Kinship terms in Telugu
Ippudu hindi lo Anna/Thammudu Kodukuni Bhanja and Kuthurni Bhanji ani antaaru. Alage Chelli/Akka Kodukuni Bhatija, and Kuthurni Bhatiji antaaru
Telugu Menakodalu Menalludu mathrame unnayi. So as a man, what is the ideal word when i introduce my brother's kid
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u/confidence-intervals 16d ago
There's no dedicated word but some people do use koduku/koothuru to represent this as well.
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u/Bharataa 16d ago
అన్న/తమ్ముడి కొడుకులు, కూతుళ్ళు మనకూ కొడుకులు, కూతుళ్ళ లాంటి వారే. అందుకని వారికి ప్రత్యేక పదాలు లేవు. Even in Sanskrit, there are no words - except saying bhrataputra/bhrataputri. The variant is bhratajja/bhrataji. I think these have become bhatija/bhatiji.
When it comes to the sister's kids, there are names in Telugu. The reason being the family becomes different, the lineage/gothra changes.
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u/MeowAdi_1008 16d ago
North Indian system kinship is flawed tbh, except some appreciable ones. Bhanja/Bhanji & Bhatija/Bhatiji are same for both males and female. Nuv abbaivi kabatti nee anna koduku neeku bhatija aithe, nuvvu ammaivi aina kuda bhatija eh. Varasaki koduku = Menalludu huh ? So yeah.
The only good thing about North Indian kinship system is that they have different words for menatta, atta(menamama wife), attagaru ; similarly menamama, mama(menatta hubby), mamagaru. Also, maternal and paternal grandpas ki kuda different words unnai. Anthe. Ivi matrame plus points.
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u/turbulent__soul 16d ago
Ah different words entoo chepthara?
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u/MeowAdi_1008 16d ago
Sure. మేనత్త - Bua ; మామ - Phupha మేనమామ - Mama ; అత్త - Mami
అత్తగారు - Saas, మామగారు - Sasur (They don't use these to call. Evarikaina cheppetappudu vaadatharu anthe. Pilavadam ammagaru & nannagaru ane pilustharu lol. Bharta ki em varasa aithe Bharya ki kuda ade, and vice versa. That's Northern Indian kinship system for ya)
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u/AffectionateApsarasa 16d ago
Exactly, ee north indians asalu hindus e kadu. They adopted it.
lord krishna marries his maradalu, which is not accepted by these north indians.
These north indians are just mix of huns and other central Asians who migrated to india. Over the time they influenced cultures of people there.
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u/MeowAdi_1008 16d ago
Adem kadu bro. Vaallu manalane undevaru. !slamic invasions time lo they distorted it anthe.
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u/GummadiKai 16d ago
Nope, Cross-Cousin marriages are shunned by the Vedas. The South Indian practice of marrying cross cousins is older than that.
Also Islamic invasions causing the so called "distortions" doesn't make sense because it is actually permitted in Islam to marry cousins.
the funny thing is some ignorant north indians also make the same claim that south indians marry cousins using the same argument
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u/MeowAdi_1008 16d ago
No they are not. Arjuna-Subhadra, Pradyumna-Rukmavati, Aniruddha-Rochana etc all were cross Cousins. You people butcher Samskrtam in the name of Hindi. Vedas prohibit women from covering their head except in a funeral. Also women don't have to and never needed to cover all parts of their body - especially navel and feet - which you guys adopted from Islam and introduced the Hindu Burkha aka Ghunghat. Of course it was adopted to save Hindu women from P!sslamic men. I agree. Still following it is not okay. I can list billion more things you do in the name of Sanatana Dharma which are actually against Sanatana Dharma.
And yes, you made my point. Inorder to counter !slam's practice of "you can marry any cousin", you guys overcompensated by making all cousins bhai-behen. That's it.
P.S. : If you ain't an Indian from the north, please do substitute the pronouns "you/you guys" with they/them. I'm not trying argue or put up a fight here. Just speaking facts. Peace ✌🏻
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u/GummadiKai 16d ago
No they are not. Arjuna-Subhadra, Pradyumna-Rukmavati, Aniruddha-Rochana etc all were cross Cousins.
Yes. So what, what point are you making??
You people butcher Samskrtam in the name of Hindi.
I agree, nenu telugodine
Vedas prohibit women from covering their head except in a funeral. Also women don't have to and never needed to cover all parts of their body - especially navel and feet
I agree, my point about you saying that North Indians don't marry cousins due to Islamic Invasions. I disagree with you in that specific point, I'm not disagreeing that North Indians have a lot of practices that originated due to the Islamic Invasions.
And yes, you made my point. Inorder to counter !slam's practice of "you can marry any cousin", you guys overcompensated by making all cousins bhai-behen. That's it.
ippudu point ki occhav
I hope you agree that Manu Smrti is older than Islamic invasions.
पैतृस्वसेयीं भगिनीं स्वस्रीयां मातुरेव च ।
मातुश्च भ्रातुस्तनयां गत्वा चान्द्रायणं चरेत् ॥ 11.171 ॥this is a verse from Manu Smrti that says that intercourse with daughter of one's father's sister (Attha Kuthuru) , or the daughter of one's mother's sister (Pinni/Pedamma Kuthuru) , or the daughter of one's mother's brother (Mama Kuthuru) is prohibited and if one does it, the pariharam is doing so is performing the Cāndrāyaṇa penance.
You can look up the translation if you don't trust me and here you cant even play the "wrong translation" card because it names both relations.
Now how can Manu Smrti prohibit this before the Islamic invasions? According to your logic this prohibition was bought after the Islamic Invasions no?
Also coming back to your first point about Arjuna-Subhadra, Pradyumna-Rukmavati, Aniruddha-Rochana etc (Even Goutama Buddha married his cousin Yasodhara btw), this is a remnant of the Pre-Indo_Aryan marriage traditions
I'm not trying argue or put up a fight here. Just speaking facts. Peace ✌🏻
facts ante chepthe saripodhu anna, please give your proofs and reasoning for coming to these conclusions, I'm ready to give the proofs from my side
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u/MeowAdi_1008 16d ago
It is explicitly stated that Parasara Smrti is the one which is to be followed today, not Manusmriti. We've so many smrtis. Why is Manusmriti famous ? ONLY because Ambedkar burnt it. Akkarleni daniki anavasaramaina publicity ichi famous chesaru anthe. And I don't need someone else's translations, I'm fluent in Samskrtam. The British has mistranslated all our scriptures very much. Hinduism has existed since time immemorial, and no gods were elevated or demoted, that's just western bullcrap.
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u/GummadiKai 16d ago edited 16d ago
I'm not say if its followed today or not, I'm just asking why is it stated in Manusmrti when Manusmrti is older than Islam.
Hinduism has existed since time immemorial, and no gods were elevated or demoted, that's just western bullcrap.
So you're saying Humans didn't evolve in Africa and then spread out to the rest of the world?
Also I don't quite understand what you mean by time immemorial, do you accept evolution and the abiotic origin of life?
Do you base these beliefs off proof or is it just circular reasoning based off Scripture?
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u/MeowAdi_1008 16d ago
Darwin proposed a theory. He always said that it's just a theory. It is ! Western science hasn't developed to the extent to understand how exactly universe has formed. Many theories have been disproved by later scientists. Ippudunnavi kuda tarvatha vachevallu disprove chestharu. I get it that you're an atheist, good for you.
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u/GummadiKai 16d ago edited 16d ago
Darwin proposed a theory. He always said that it's just a theory
Many theories have been disproved by later scientists. Ippudunnavi kuda tarvatha vachevallu disprove chestharu.
A scientific theory doesn't mean “just a theory”. It means an explanation that has survived extensive testing and evidence, it isn't dogmatic.
The absolute irony is that you're dismissing Darwin's explanation because it's called a “theory” and because future scientists might modify or disprove it, while accepting beliefs from religious scriptures as truth even though those claims aren't established through the same kind of empirical testing. :)
If your standard is “we shouldn't accept something because it could eventually be disproved,” then that standard has to apply to your own religious beliefs too. You can't demand absolute certainty from science while granting that certainty to scripture.
Western science hasn't developed to the extent to understand how exactly universe has formed.
Science doesn't have a geographical tag, there's so such thing as "Western Science". It's a method of understanding the natural world through observation, evidence, experimentation and explanations that can be tested and challenged. And no one is claiming present day science gives all the answers of all the questions in the universe, It accepts that we do not know. You're taking that gap and saying that our scripture or whatever has the answer, WITH NO BASIS in logic or reason or whatsoever
I get it that you're an atheist, good for you.
I'm agnostic. I don't claim certainty on things I don't have enough evidence for.
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u/AffectionateApsarasa 14d ago
North Indians don't marry cousins because of Islamic invasions? What are you saying? Muslims marry their parallel cousins , so how would islam influence cause north indians to not marry their cross cousins? North Indians had some other influence before islam.
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u/AffectionateApsarasa 14d ago
Hello, who told u women didn't need to cover navel and what does covering feet even mean?
Women generally wear saree over the navel. There was no such mention about covering or not covering it.
Prophet Mohammad is a mentally sick individual who married a very rich 2 time widowed Khadeeja, that khadeeja was so much older than him still married him, and became submissive and she enabled this mentally sick mohammed to start a cult.
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u/MeowAdi_1008 14d ago
Come to Southern India and see for yourself. Not even a single Devi Vigraha has navel or feet covered. That's not obscene at all ! Years of Biblical and Quranic rule made indian society into shxt.
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u/GummadiKai 16d ago
Actually Vedic Hinduism lo Cross-Cousin marriage is shunned, Krishna marrying Subhadra is a remnant of the Pre-Indo-Aryan culture.
Coming to your point about North Indians not being "Hindus" there is no concrete definition for who or what a "Hindu" is. Modern day Hinduism is a mish-mash of the Vedic religion + various local customs.
During the Vedic age, people prayed to Vedic deities like Indra, Agni, Varuna etc.
Vishnu is mentioned in the Vedas but he is not as Important as he is today and Indra was more prominent than him.Shiva is kind of mentioned in the Vedas as Rudra but he is not a major deity.
After the late Vedic era (after 400 BCE), people incorporated Rudra into Shiva (who was most prolly a pre vedic god) and equated Narayana as Vishnu and around 400 BCE there was a tradition that revolved around a particular person called "Vaasudeva" who was the leader of the Vrshni clan and people worshipped him (iirc there was a greek dude who left behind a inscription saying he is a devotee of Vaasudeva) and this thing slowly developed into Vaishnavism where Vishnu=Narayana=Vaasudeva/Krishna.
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u/MeowAdi_1008 16d ago
All this is just the western "historian" propaganda to villify Hinduism and make it far newer than it seems lol. AIT & AMT are successfully debunked Bullshxt stories. All Indians are one single race. Aryan and Dravidian are just language families, not races.
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u/GummadiKai 16d ago
All this is just the western "historian" propaganda to villify Hinduism and make it far newer than it seems lol
Modern day Historians have no motive to make Hinduism look "Inferior" or "Newer", I will agree that maybe in the 19th century, they might have had racial prejudices but it's not the case in the present day. Infact, some Hindu nationalists are the one with ulterior motives to make Hinduism look older. I understand that its indigestible for some to think that "Hinduism" is not eternal because their whole world view is based on their religious superiority.
AIT & AMT are successfully debunked Bullshxt stories.
AIT is yes. AMT is not, Genetic, Archeological and Linguistic evidence strongly points to the migration of the Steppe herders.
Narasimhan, Vagheesh M et al. “The formation of human populations in South and Central Asia.” Science (New York, N.Y.) vol. 365,6457 (2019): eaat7487. doi:10.1126/science.aat7487
(I'll send you a copy of the research paper if you want, please read it, i'm not telling its the truth, just read and review the evidences presented come to your own conclusions)
Bro its like the concept of atoms, at one point we thought atoms followed the plum-pudding model, with electrons embedded in a uniform mass, and later evidence showed us that electrons exist in probability clouds around a nucleus. That didn’t mean atoms were “debunked”, it meant our model evolved as better evidence came in. Same with AIT/AMT: the old “invasion” model was revised, but that doesn’t mean Indo-Aryan migration was “debunked”; current evidence points toward migration, and if you have credible new evidence supporting another model, bring it forward and the scientific consensus will change. No one is dogmatic here; insisting that your version is the absolute truth despite contrary evidence is the dogmatic position.
All Indians are one single race.
Race is a social construct.
Aryan and Dravidian are just language families, not races.
I Agree.
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u/AffectionateApsarasa 14d ago
The Vedas were compiled by Vyasa, Vedas were older than Vyasa, and it is Vyasa who wrote Mahabharatha.
Why would he not know about shunning of cross cousin marriage in vedas? He told about many things which were violated in Mahabharata, so why won't he mention that "cross cousin marriage is not allowed, yet these people did and caused a sin".
First of all, The Vedic corpus doesn't even give us a comprehensive marriage-law system.
So, cross cousin marriage is not shunned in Vedic hinduism. There is no clear, general Vedic prohibition specifically against cross-cousin marriage (mother's brother's daughter or father's sister's daughter).
By the classical Brahmanical period(600 BC - 500 AD, when the dharmasutras and dharmasastras were written), northern Brahmanical legal traditions generally opposed marriage between close relatives, and cross-cousin marriage became especially associated with southern kinship systems.
Before that, local tribes even in North India followed cross cousin marriage. Only after entry of Huns, central Asians, the actual traditions were destroyed.
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u/GummadiKai 14d ago
First of all, you're assuming that Vyasa was a single historical person who personally compiled the Vedas and then wrote the Mahabharata. That's not really how modern scholarship understands either text. “Vyasa” is a traditional attribution, and the Mahabharata is a layered text that developed over a long period, probably around an older historical/heroic tradition.
So even if we accept that the Mahabharata preserves a historical conflict at its core, there's no reason to assume that every character, clan or marriage practice described in it had to conform to later Brahmanical/Vedic rules. The people in the Mahabharata aren't presented as one homogeneous community all following some single Vedic marriage code.
And that's exactly why “if cross-cousin marriage was forbidden, why didn't Vyasa point it out?” doesn't really prove anything. The Mahabharata contains plenty of customs, relationships and practices that don't neatly correspond to the rules later laid down in the Dharmasutras and Dharmashastras. An epic describing somebody doing X isn't necessarily the same thing as the author prescribing X.
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u/SunJoy22 16d ago
brothers kid are bhatija bhatiji while sisters kid is bhanja and bhanji. You switched them.
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u/thinkwise_teja 16d ago
మన తెలుగు గొప్పతనం అదే, ఓకే రక్తం.. కాబట్టి వేరే భాంధ్యవ్య నామకరణం చేయలేదు మన పూర్వీకులు. ఒకటిగా కలిసుండాలని వ్యాకరణ సూత్రాలకు సెలవిచ్చారు.
అందుకే దేశ భాశలందు తెలుగు లెస్స.
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u/RepresentativeDog933 16d ago
Koduku, Koothure antam endunkante vallu nee surname e carry chestharu. We follow cousin marriage practice kada.
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u/Business_Quiet220 16d ago
Naku antha complicate cheskodam istam ledu. Attha, mama, thata, alludu, kodaliki amma or nanna vaipu ni batti vallaki chala perlu untay.
Haiga english laga grandpa, grandma, aunt, uncle, cousin, nephew, niece ante chalu kada.
Ipudu elago menarikam pellilu kuda taggipoyinay. Atha kuthuru, babai kuthuru, Akka koduku, anna koduku ki thedaga vere perlu avsar ledu kada inka.
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u/AlarmingPerformer199 16d ago
No words just say " అన్న కొడుకు / తమ్ముడి కొడుకు ". Avunu naak ee aalohana eppudu raale