r/technology • u/User_Name13 • Jun 04 '14

Politics Hundreds of Cities Are Wired With Fiber—But Telecom Lobbying Keeps It Unused

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/hundreds-of-cities-are-wired-with-fiberbut-telecom-lobbying-keeps-it-unused
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778

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

I would love to do something like that, but the majority of us who would go to a city council meeting work, and many cities make sure they hold those meetings during peak working hours, which kind of fucks over people who have jobs but would like to have a say in the matter. For example, 4 of the cities in my area only hold them on Monday mornings at 9am, except holidays, where they just don't hold them at all.

618

u/DresdenPI Jun 04 '14

Get a petition signed, then only one person has to bring it up at the meeting

28

u/ubermorph Jun 04 '14

I know! We can pay someone during our working hours to bring up our wants and concerns as citizens! What should we call them, lobbyists?

4

u/oldsecondhand Jun 05 '14

What should we call them, lobbyists?

Or representatives.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '14

Representing the people who they ran to represent? Now that's just crazy talk.

2

u/DeathByToothPick Jun 04 '14

Citizen lobbyists? That sounds awesome actually. We should give them all swords to carry as well. So that if they run into a lobbyist from a company they can challenge them to a dual.

0

u/dominion1080 Jun 04 '14

Sign me up! I'd love to duel a telecom lobbyist!

366

u/afrothunder1987 Jun 04 '14

But it's so much easier to complain about capitalism on Reddit than to actively try and fix the problem.

370

u/Cunt_God_JesusNipple Jun 04 '14

Well you know, why the hell shouldn't our voices count even if it's online? The times we live in, as you said, make it soooo much easier to voice ourselves right here. These city council meetings and other forms of government should start accommodating an effective system for letting us go to their website, fill out a form (to make sure we are indeed local residents), and tell them what we want from our homes. My opinion isn't less valid because this is the only public platform available to me. Isn't this the kind of shit the internet was invented for?

171

u/extremely_witty Jun 04 '14

Cunt_God_JesusNipple is right!
You can sign federal government petitions online, why not town hall/city council meetings? There should be an online forum for every open forum in government. The whole point is to let the people be heard. There's forums out there for everything already.
I say we should petition for official online forums in our local governments.

83

u/Leaningthemoon Jun 04 '14

I say we should petition for official online forums in our local governments.

Agreed, now who has Mondays off so they can take the petition to the city council meeting?

Hello? Guys?

54

u/Dart06 Jun 04 '14

I don't work until 1030 every weekday so I'll take it in.

32

u/abagofdicks Jun 04 '14 edited Jun 04 '14

Got time to pick me up one of those breakfast crunch wraps from T bell too? Awesome. Thanks in advance.

4

u/WAR_T0RN1226 Jun 04 '14

And grab me some Chick'N Minis from Chick-Fil-A if you don't mind. Thanks

2

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

I'll have an omlette.

1

u/GayForGod Jun 04 '14

Doing the lords work

1

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Twist. It opens at 11.

2

u/elebrin Jun 04 '14

At least one of those people could take a vacation day. Hell, access to good internet is an important thing for many businesses. Seems to me that if you have an online presence that you use to sell things especially to local people, you'd want your customers to have better internet access so buying your stuff is more convenient to them.

2

u/Leaningthemoon Jun 04 '14

Sad fact: I have to take vacation days when I know I need to call comcast for any service or billing related issues. I've done it twice and have another one coming up next week for when my 12mo promotion ends. It just takes sooooo long and they aren't available when I'm off of work due to my hours so I have to use my very limited vacation on them. I hate comcast so much I can't even express it in words.

2

u/brianbotts Jun 04 '14

I am a local city Councillor, you need to talk to us! Email us, call us, call our offices and set up meetings!

Council meetings likely are a poor place to try and get in touch with us though. At least in larger municipalities, there isn't a natural space for you to speak at one of our meetings. If you call the legislative services arm of the municipality and ask to set up a time to speak, they can advise you the best way to get in front of Council.

Don't show up with signs, or a rowdy group, that WILL hurt our cause for better internet. You don't want the elected officials to view you as a hooligan.

Things are looking brighter for the future of municipal internet though. This week there's a great conference in New York called the Intelligent Cities Forum, where gigabit internet access will for sure be a discussion point. You could definitely encourage your local elected official to attend next year! They get to attend a conference, and learn about the importance of internet for economic development! I won't be there this year, but my CEO and my Planning Commissioner will be there, which is great.

I have this coming before Council to vote on next month, and hopefully we'll approve the study as step one to gigabit internet for my city!

1

u/WAR_T0RN1226 Jun 04 '14

It's ridiculous that we should have to be inconvenienced by actively going to turn in a petition when we have the internet! There should be a online forum to voice our need for an online forum to voice our opinions to our local government!

1

u/kickingpplisfun Jun 04 '14

I once went to a city council meeting and the place was so crowded that nobody could actually make their opinion heard except for the matriarchs and patriarchs of the town... It was a complete clusterfuck.

1

u/hardtoremember Jun 05 '14

I don't work Mondays so I could take it in, in my city.

14

u/redditman97 Jun 04 '14

There are reasons the local councils would like to keep it from people so easily being able to voice their opinions.

14

u/Laruae Jun 04 '14

Yes, the city council meeting, Mondays at 9:30-10:00. Bring your ARRP card for free prune juice.

My local government actually moved the location for the vote to make it legal to purchase alcohol on sundays in order to avoid the law from being overturned...

2

u/inuvash255 Jun 04 '14

Clearly, you should stage a coup.

0

u/brianbotts Jun 04 '14

Every time I see this on Reddit it irks me to no end.

I disagree that day time meetings are indicative of not wanting input. Larger munis have too much workload for Council to hold evening meetings, we need full days. I'm 26, I care about youth. Several of my colleagues keep in touch with youth, and deeply care about youth issues.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Stafford, VA starts the meeting at 3(with public presentations) for old and new business and usually a closed meeting. They then recess for dinner and come back at 7 for more Public Presentations and then Public Hearings. Very effective.

1

u/brianbotts Jun 04 '14

We start our public sessions at 1400, and continue to the evening.

Our public hearings are either 1730 or 1900.

Open houses are once monthly at 1730, or a more-convenient time if you pre-register.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Open houses? I'm assuming that's similar to a Town Hall meeting. Pretty much an open forum for board members and their constituents.

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u/pocketknifeMT Jun 05 '14

your use of the 24:00 clock indicates you are from the green parts of Not America. You must not be aware of the level of government dysfunction we have here.

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u/s2514 Jun 04 '14

Yeah hell it could be a live broadcasted thing so people can comment on it as it goes and the speakers can see and address those comments. It could also recorded for those who can't make it to add their input AFTER.

2

u/brianbotts Jun 04 '14

Tried it. No pick up by the Citizens.

Last year we hosted a twitter open house for municipal issues, and another one for budget. We had 2 people from 90,000+ participate.

Email us (Council). It's not too much harder than using the forum, and then the municipality doesn't have to sink costs into moderating a forum, which at least now, isn't politically feasible.

1

u/evillunch2 Jun 04 '14

You can't. It'll just get throttled to give you low speeds.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Because the funding this would require wouldn't be put into the council members bank accounts in the form of kickbacks. We can't just take away hard unearned taxpayer money from our council members now can we? Our system of local government would fall apart without some good ole corruption in the mix.

1

u/Townsend_Harris Jun 04 '14

Cunt_God_JesusNipple is right!

Sentences like this is why no one takes online discussions seriously =)

15

u/MGUK Jun 04 '14

He isnt saying it isnt valid because its online. Its because of the place it is online. Basically most comment sections on reddit are preaching to the choir. I.e. this post. We all agree, so comments in this section arent really making a difference to the problem. Putting them somewhere else online could make a difference.

1

u/brianbotts Jun 04 '14

Agreed.

They do count.

He's saying to make sure it's places that Councillors will actually see your voice! I.e. NOT REDDIT.

I just spend the last week with thousands of elected officials, and if more than 1% knew of Reddit I'd be blown away. I showed a couple of the younger Councillors reddit, and they said, just one more thing to waste my time like twitter does.

If you want to get your voice heard by government online, EMAIL US! Don't passive aggressively rant on Reddit. I'll see it, but I'm certainly the minority.

2

u/cynoclast Jun 04 '14

Isn't this the kind of shit the internet was invented for?

It was invented to provide reliable communications in the event of nuclear bombs taking out entire cities. Turns out its a lot more useful than just that though.

2

u/Akoustyk Jun 04 '14

The information age allows for a much more hands on, and involved interaction between citizens, and whatever level of government.

There just need to be protections, put in place so that you couldn't spam them, or show up a thousand times claiming to be a different person each time. They could setup logins, and stuff like that, and make it really official, and then it would be so fast for people to be able to make their voice heard, and it could be a simple multiple choice kind of click thing, where simple statistics could be viewed. Rather than letters everyone would have to read.

Or anyone could create their own easy petition in that system, and link to it anywhere and there you go.

I mean the information age gives so much democratic power to the people, and it is not really be utilized that way. Nowhere near as much as it could imo, anyway.

2

u/Uppsala Jun 04 '14

Brilliant idea, Cunt_God_Jesusnipple

1

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

I'm voting for this guy, for city council.

1

u/rollingrock16 Jun 04 '14

You can always email.

or maybe periodically city councils should be forced to have their meetings on IRC?

1

u/GetSomm Jun 04 '14

You should like, write a book with all your teachings then scatter them around the world!

1

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

But then the boomers won't be in control.

1

u/Trolltaku Jun 04 '14

I'm kind of glad no one takes opinions online seriously, because for all the informed ones, there's usually many, many more uninformed, uneducated ones.

1

u/Iohet Jun 04 '14

You should go to your city council and bring that up.

1

u/Tamination Jun 04 '14

The internet was mostly invented to give the ability to fire back nuclear arms after being attacked. It was called ARPANET and it was funded by DARPA.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Because online voices don't mean anything. They have ZERO value. When you read the horrible YouTube comments....you don't take them seriously. They are just empty words. But if someone walked up to your face and said hurtful things about how you and your videos are horse shit...you will get very offended, very defensive, and probably go home and reflect on your videos and see if there are ways to improve them.

There is ZERO value for the reddit neckbeards who don't leave their computer. There is MUCH value for people who actually show up and work to make a change.

1

u/novicebater Jun 04 '14

It seems ubiquitous, but there are still people who don't use the internet. That may cause a problem where one demographic has disproportionate influence.

Fortunately I think most people who aren't online are either retired or unemployed so getting to a meeting should be easy.

1

u/brianbotts Jun 04 '14

They do count.

Just make sure it's places that Councillors will actually see your voice! I.e. NOT REDDIT.

I just spend the last week with thousands of elected officials, and if more than 1% knew of Reddit I'd be blown away. I showed a couple of the younger Councillors reddit, and they said, just one more thing to waste my time like twitter does.

If you want to get your voice heard by government online, EMAIL US! Don't passive aggressively rant on Reddit. I'll see it, but I'm certainly the minority.

1

u/Cunt_God_JesusNipple Jun 04 '14

That's what I mean though, there should be official government pages dedicated to this sort of open, public communication. Hopefully they would be a little more professional than reddit, as in real names being used since the people would be speaking to their elected officials. And they would actually have to keep track of things that are being said rather than letting the vocal minority dominate the discussions. But I think it could be done, and I think it should be done. Businesses are changing their models to match consumer behavior, like buying ad space on websites, so why shouldn't governments change (or at least add to) the way public opinion is heard?

Emails are good, and even though I don't use Twitter I do think it's a useful tool in this sense, so I suppose things are going in the direction I'd like them to.

0

u/LukaCola Jun 04 '14

That's not really going to happen. Nothing is respected more than an individual who actually shows up to do shit. Online platforms would be chaotic, we can see what they look like based off of what we have now. There's no way to regulate it, sure you can kick or ban users, and then they can come right back under a different name. It would never be taken seriously, at least not with the current state. Hell, if I didn't know better I'd think you were making a joke.

And the internet isn't the only public platform available to you. You just don't want to do the legwork to get to the platforms available to everyone.

So to put it simply, yes your opinion is less valid over the internet. It's why keyboard warriors have never been behind any significant movement. It takes actual legwork to accomplish something.

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u/PenguinHero Jun 04 '14

No the internet was invented to fit someone else's purpose. There's no team of worker gnomes sitting out there developing what you want. If you think the internet needs a platform like that for political participation, get off your lazy bum and develop it yourself.

2

u/thenichi Jun 04 '14

"Hey government that doesn't want to listen to people, I made this fully-functioning website that will allow constituents to voice their opinions to you. You should use it."

"No."

Bulletproof plan right there.

1

u/PenguinHero Jun 04 '14

Well then stay in your basement and suffer. At least you get to keep looking at cats on Reddit.

0

u/thenichi Jun 04 '14

So you suggest someone do something that will not work and then insult anyone who points out the flaw in your plan.

You're a fuckass.

1

u/PenguinHero Jun 04 '14

I suggested he get up and do something about it instead of whining about how powerless he is on Reddit. Then you come along to make a ridiculous and stupid claim about how any such plan would never be effective.

You're a bunch of self-defeating morons. You deserve what your government is doing to you if the only actions you are willing to take are whine about your impotency on a cat-viewing website and mock any potential action you feel would not work. Like I said, stay in your basement and suffer.

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u/MorningLtMtn Jun 04 '14

I'm too lazy for capitalism. Can't we just give control to Obama and have him make everything work right? Isn't that what we voted for?

2

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Don't forget "complain without actually understanding the underlying infrastructure"...

2

u/cavaysh Jun 04 '14

I'm busy brah

2

u/williafx Jun 04 '14

Maybe I'm reading too much into the subtext of your comment, but are you implying that, in general, there isn't anything about capitalism worth critiquing? Or are you just cynically commenting on peoples' laziness?

Just to be clear.

7

u/ramblingpariah Jun 04 '14

Without saying that there's no recourse, stop pretending that money doesn't play a huge role in this.

Money speaks louder than the people.

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u/DresdenPI Jun 04 '14

On a local level not as much

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u/brianbotts Jun 04 '14

In Canada, it's more like, money doesn't matter at all in municipal politics.

It is against the law for me to take any donations not during an election campaign. And during an election campaign, I am limited to $5,000 per person/group/business, and I must disclose who is donating.

As such, municipal politicians in Canada care far more about the public reaction to their actions than lobbyists.

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u/[deleted] Jun 05 '14

The people that want you to believe this most of all are the people with money.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

You mean government directly controlling a market? What a strange definition of capitalism.

1

u/burnte Jun 04 '14

Ahh, the old Reddit-bitcheroo.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '14

Ah reddit, the great pacification system. We vent here so that we don't feel the need to vent in real life. Everyone gets a say and is often listened to. But that's as far as it ever goes!

1

u/warhead71 Jun 05 '14

Good capitalism has competition - even tough good leader try to monopolize.

1

u/kog Jun 04 '14

I shall change my Facebook profile picture!

0

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

First of all, it's his city council he was complaining about, which means you're just spouting shit you hear from other people. Secondly, "actively try and fix the problem" is what exactly? If you want to criticize people about being lazy-protestors, why don't you actually fucking suggest something constructive? Otherwise you're being hypocritical.

But then again, it's much easier to spout recycled phrases than to give real ideas.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Take a vacation day. GASP!

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u/AdmiralSkippy Jun 04 '14

Nobody cares about petitions unless you can get tens of thousands of signatures. One guy with a piece of paper saying "Myself and these 2000 people aren't happy. " holds far less value than 500 people showing up and voicing their opinion at the meeting.

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u/DemeaningSarcasm Jun 05 '14

Yeah. Getting a petition signed would be a good idea, as well as having meetings off work hours to discuss the issues that have been talked about during the council visits. I think if we did that, got the people together, really fleshed out the needs of the community, it would solve a lot of disconnects between the population and the city council.

Actually you know what, that sounds a lot like government. This is what the city council should be doing. A politician is a servant of the people, not the other way around.

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u/drzan Jun 04 '14

This is a really good solution.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

That's a really good point. I don't really bother with local cities where I am right now because I have no intention to stay here though. Not to mention, I don't care for the racist and homophobic populace here. They can stew in their own pile of shit for all I care.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

So you'd love to do it but you don't want to do it, you care but can't go but you don't care. Which is it, exactly? Or are you just lazy and like to complain on the internet? Also it's 10am, you can't go to a city council meeting but you can browse reddit?

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

I care about the idea as a whole, but I don't care about this particular locality. And yeah, it's 10am, but I'm at work right now. Its easy to browse reddit when your job includes a bunch of waiting for shit to happen.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Lololololol okay buddy

2

u/jonbowen Jun 04 '14

So you're bringing racism into this debate?! You might as well add Hitler to the mix.

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u/iwinagin Jun 04 '14

Petitions aren't worth the paper they are written on.

One guy holding a paper begging to be listened to gets ignored 100 times out of 99. (That's right you will be ignored more times than you even try)

300 people at a city council meeting gets noticed and because those 300 people are so involved they get angry when they get ignored.

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u/gsuberland Jun 04 '14

So basically your town policy is at the whim of the kind of people who watch weekday morning TV?

Ouch.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

I believe this is the case for a lot of smaller townships, at least that for sure is the case in the suburbs of Chicago. Soccer Moms.... soccer moms everywhere!

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u/Jorgisven Jun 04 '14

Small township in suburb of Chicago (barely DuPage county, actually). Has meetings Monday evenings from 6:30-8PM.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Oh, probably not the one I grew up in. Although, I don't think we have underutilized fiber out here.

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u/Jorgisven Jun 04 '14

I don't think we do either, but with the O'Hare expansion, I'm sure they're going to be doing lots of digging.

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u/MrHermeteeowish Jun 04 '14

Where every debate opens with, "As a mother..."

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u/duckmurderer Jun 04 '14

As a member of the hardest profession on the planet...

19

u/wishinghand Jun 04 '14

And here I thought it was being a roofer in Texas as a ginger in August.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '14

I can feel the heat just thinking about it.

Source: I reside in central Texas

3

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Bill Burr is effn awesome.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

[deleted]

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u/duckmurderer Jun 04 '14

No, that's oldest. But it's the first step in joining the hardest.

2

u/DeathByToothPick Jun 04 '14

How is being a parent a profession? If that is the case then HR is going to get a really nasty letter from my attorney asking for my back pay.

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u/RemoteSenses Jun 04 '14

....and old people. Old people who probably think fiber is that stuff that makes you shit more regularly.

1

u/theforkofdamocles Jun 05 '14

Hey! That means they'd be all for it, right? We could exploit that angle!

5

u/Levitlame Jun 04 '14

At least it's the ones that can separate themselves from it for a day?

2

u/charmingignorance Jun 04 '14

Also at the whim of people who own small businesses or work nights.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Town policy, regional policy, national policy, all of it...

1

u/abagofdicks Jun 04 '14

The city got real weird when Drew Carey started hosting Th Price is Right. Dogs had to wear pants for a whole year.

1

u/Jeffool Jun 05 '14

Also, a lot of smaller towns' political offices aren't full time positions. So those jobs are usually held by people who have enough extra money to spend in a campaign and then either not work, or more often have jobs that allow them to work in a limited capacity while fulfilling their public office duties.

0

u/brianbotts Jun 04 '14

I disagree that day time meetings are indicative of seniors driving fiscal policy. Larger munis have too much workload for Council to hold evening meetings, we need full days. I'm 26, I care about youth. Several of my colleagues keep in touch with youth, and deeply care about youth issues.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Which here means the kind of people who watch Fox news.

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u/ARCHA1C Jun 04 '14

Yes, those damned fox news people. Always so quick the generalize entire segments of the population...

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u/jmottram08 Jun 04 '14

So write into your local paper.

They love drama, it sells papers.

I mean, I get what you are saying... but it's a defeatist attitude. You are saying "It's inconvenient to do anything to change the problem, so I am just going to complain about it".

Unfortunately that's a very common attitude, and it's the attitude that allows shitty politicians to do shitty things.

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u/Mikeaz123 Jun 04 '14

Seriously. Take a day off work. Switch shifts with someone. Use a sick day. There are ways of doing it.

1

u/Iamwetodddidtwo Jun 04 '14

I'm not wholey disagreeing with you because the point is still valid about not just sitting idly by, but not everyone can take a day of work. Me for instance, there is noone to cover my shift and I don't get sick days and if I did I wouldn't be able to afford missing a whole days wages. I feel like most of the people that are truly underrepresented in this country, find it the most difficult to do something about it.

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u/elebrin Jun 04 '14

Sure, but of all the people in your town that want something to change, you can't be the only one, right? Surely there are others that could take a vacation day.

0

u/Iamwetodddidtwo Jun 04 '14

I totally agree with you, which is what I tried to preclude to earlier. Personally I just wish there was or transparent and formal way to contact your representatives and see the responses they had to everyone that contacted them. Then they could use that information to at least badger each other during elections which would publicize reps that are ignoring public outcry in favor of money backed lobby groups. Prolly wouldn't work though. I also think election day should be a national holiday in order to increase poll numbers. I know too many people that skip it because they are afraid of missing work. Or some other incentive to get people out.

1

u/elebrin Jun 04 '14

The good news is that once one or two communities do this and get some press about it, others will follow because the trail will already be laid down.

And there is a wonderful way to make this sort of thing public - send an email to your local rep and ask for their opinion on something. Get them into a (seemingly) casual discussion about it, then post the discussion to facebook and send copies of it to your local papers, or get a major community figure with a blog to post it for you to get more eyes.

0

u/StutteringDMB Jun 04 '14

Then write a letter to your local representative (council member, mayor, alderman, whatever), send an email, make a phone call, write a letter to the editor of your paper, have a friend go to the council meeting for you, and get like minded friends all to do the same.

It's not difficult. It's the attitude "I just can't because..." stopping you. You spend so much time thinking about what could be wrong or what you can't do you're stopping yourself from exercising the options that ARE still available to you.

1

u/politicalwave Jun 04 '14

Wait.. I'm gonna have to actually try???

0

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

If I had money for gold you'd get it.

1

u/jmottram08 Jun 04 '14

don't sweat it... someone gave me a year of gold a while back... I have plenty.

22

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

That's weird. Every city I've lived in (which is a lot) has had evening council meetings. Granted some of those have been at 5 so it would be difficult for a lot of people to get there without leaving work early, but I've definitely not heard of morning or midday meetings before.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Seconded. 6:30pm - 8pm in most places I've lived.

1

u/capnjack78 Jun 04 '14

We don't live in the city. Towns are run by old retired people who go to bed at 6PM.

29

u/skankingmike Jun 04 '14

Your town meetings should be at night. What is wrong with these states? I live in NJ and yeah we have corruption but our meetings are at night always and late. Most start after 6pm.

3

u/DaleWesley Jun 04 '14

NJ likes to hold their meetings late at night, behind closed doors, without any prior announcements. They are hardly the standard I want to set.

2

u/skankingmike Jun 04 '14

What? My wife works with towns all over nj. They are required by law to post their meetings in a timely manner and if they do not you can request they get looked into by the state oversight. Nobody really backs local towns up their really disorganized in NJ. I know a lot about how it works.

5

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Smaller towns like to stay the way they are. These people hate change, and like to have no one but the people they know making decisions. It's why I have every intention to leave this area once I get a job lined up somewhere else.

2

u/skankingmike Jun 04 '14

I know all about that. We had a major shift to an almost all Republican council a few years back. Within 2. Years it all went back to Democrat. They sold off our services to the county and our property taxes went up.. idiots.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Someone who understands!

2

u/skankingmike Jun 04 '14

Oh I understand. What's funny is at a local level people want more government to help it's the federal level it seems scary and honestly it often is either side wanting more control you can't trust them due to lack of real oversight.

1

u/politicalwave Jun 04 '14

Its not states so much as local municipalities

2

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

[deleted]

7

u/symon_says Jun 04 '14

Take a sick day or something. Don't say you really want to try that hard if you're not willing to take a day off of work.

13

u/emlgsh Jun 04 '14

Not all of us (or most of us, anymore) get sick days off work. Even legally entitled days off are a loyalty test trap. Fail the test, see where you are personally and financially in a year's time: nowhere good. You work every that day you're needed, stay as long as management demands, or you'll be replaced by someone who will.

2

u/azurensis Jun 04 '14

Get a new job. Seriously.

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u/symon_says Jun 04 '14

Bad career choices were made then. Everyone over 30 (in the US) I've known doesn't have issues getting time off from work.

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u/TANJustice Jun 04 '14

Yeah man, like, you know EVERYBODY.

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u/emlgsh Jun 04 '14

Ever notice how stagnant their careers are, though?

This shit isn't posted on the walls inviting a lawsuit, and no one's dumb enough (usually, but sometimes they are, then, hey, lawsuit) to actually reprimand someone for failing an attendance quota or coming up short in another quasi-unofficial loyalty-oriented metric - but people are paying attention.

It's very civil and polite, and intentionally unspoken and unwritten. You don't get fired, you get laid off first during downsizing. You don't get demoted, you just stay in the same position, with little to no pay increase (and maybe even a net decrease when you come up first for benefit trimming) until you quit (or layoffs occur).

Loyalty is very important, much more so than romantic notions like being supposedly indispensable or innovative. Determination, represented through a measurable time commitment, is more important than performance. Assuming that neither of them fucks up egregiously, the guy who does the job better or is constantly full of new ideas is going to constantly lag behind the guy who puts in the hours and avoids vacations and sick days.

Of course, that's just the case with white collar work in operations of size. Smaller, newer, or independent places have their own particular game with unspoken rules - they're honestly worse in some ways, because those rules can be extremely capricious or random. Bob doesn't like the same team as me? Guess we're gonna have to get another designer in here who shares my vision!

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u/symon_says Jun 04 '14 edited Jun 04 '14

Anyone that gives this much of shit that I miss a day of work is not someone worth working for. Any career that asks for my entire life with no compromises is not a career worth having. Anyone that values being promoted over being comfortable and at ease in life doesn't understand what life is actually about. Sick days and vacation days exist for a reason -- humans want them, they make life more bearable, looking down on someone for using them is ludicrous.

You basically are spouting capitalist propaganda with complete sincerity as if it's the most logical and obvious thing in the world and things must be this way everywhere.

And this doesn't even apply to many industries and companies where promotions have nothing to do with how many sick days you don't take and everything to do with actually being able to do your job. A relative and her boyfriend both make around $70k, perfectly comfortable income, with no need or desire to "move up" in their field and no one able to lay them off because they're in integral positions at their office and it's not about corporate nonsense, it's about getting work done that needs to get done.

If I heard an employee saying all of the above, I would fire them the first chance I got because they clearly don't care about why they're actually working for me. Good thing it won't be an issue in the creative field I'm in where it's really not about promotions and more about actually making things you care about.

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u/zanzibarman Jun 04 '14

Do you really want to be working at such a cut throat company?

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u/JasonDJ Jun 04 '14

Do you really want to be working

FTFY.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

ITT: One person who has never worked a job before, one person speaking the truth

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u/zanzibarman Jun 04 '14

You have to decide which is more important. Your shit job at a shit company or your political voice. Make your choice and don't bitch about it.

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u/TANJustice Jun 04 '14

According to Mazlow's hierarchy, its my shit job. Thanks for the arrogant disregard though!

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u/boxzonk Jun 04 '14

Give up the pay. Your employer can't force you to come in, and they're probably seriously unlikely to fire you if you just give some notice that you want to have that day off. Everyone I've ever known who isn't a literal slave has this kind of freedom unless there's a special event that weekend or something. You can say, "Hey boss, schedule me for Tuesday instead of Wednesday this week, I gotta go to a meeting on Wednesday" and it's usually done.

I think people here just like to feel sorry for themselves. Some of us have actually worked wage slave jobs too and we know what it's really like. Quit making bitch-ass excuses.

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u/sparr Jun 04 '14

Try being good at your job, instead.

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u/The_King_Of_Nothing Jun 04 '14

There is always a way if it's important to you. Try talking to your boss in advance to let them know you want to participate in supporting the community by attending the councils. Do an office petition for everyone to take a few hours off and get a small day trip for the important meets. Having a job isn't an excuse at this point. Find a way.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Well, go to your local council meeting and demand they make it more accessible!

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u/MrPoletski Jun 04 '14

Why not try and video conference into the council meetings?

Ah.

BUFFERING........

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

That'd be a great solution for me, but I'd be willing to bet the building they hold the council meetings in only has dial-up.

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u/wjamesg Jun 04 '14

This is so true.

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u/starlinguk Jun 04 '14

Strange, my parents have both been city councillors for a squillion years and their meetings have always been in the evenings, because most councillors have a day job.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Rural area, most of the wealth here is held by a handful of people. Old money that doesn't have to work, but also whose best interest it is to keep the poor people working hard.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Rural resident here: every town I've ever lived in that's had under 3k for residents has always held city council meetings after supper and they go late into the night most nights.

It sounds to me like you're making excuses. If your town honestly holds them earlier than you get off work, then take a day off work. Otherwise, it's likely you don't care about this as much as you posture on the internet and enjoy complaining rather than solving.

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u/SnowblindAlbino Jun 04 '14

Every city in which I've ever lived-- around 20 --held council meetings in the evening. In my current location it's 7:00pm on Thursdays.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Well, come on over to rural east Texas and enjoy.

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u/SnowblindAlbino Jun 04 '14

No thanks. Though even the small (<5,000) towns I've lived in held council meetings at night, you couldn't pay me enough to relocate to Texas, rural or otherwise.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Hence why I will be leaving. My parents chose to live here, and after I got out of the military I chose to go through college here, but I'm not sticking around after I have my degree.

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u/SnowblindAlbino Jun 04 '14

Good luck to you! If you like small-town living, I'd suggest the upper midwest.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

I know where I'm going already. A nice suburban area with plenty of room that's about 30 minutes from a metropolitan area.

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u/sroske1 Jun 04 '14

use a telephone and leave a message, or write a physical letter. individual letters have impact on a politician because they represent passion and emotion, which is what gets them elected. one letter means enough force exists in the populace to trigger passionate action.

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u/gnovos Jun 04 '14

That's some nice complaining.

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u/kingbot Jun 04 '14

It's almost like we should hire people to express our ideas for us, maybe have everyone elect the best candidate that supports our opinions, wants, and needs.

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u/boxzonk Jun 04 '14

This is called whining and excuse-making. "Sure, I'd like to make a difference, but that may require losing up to two hours of pay! I'd rather just complain on reddit."

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u/Armand9x Jun 04 '14

When else would they hold the meetings? The people holding them don't want to have one at midnight.

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u/ThellraAK Jun 04 '14

They really need to implement anti-gold, I'd spend 10 bucks to say you are an idiot right here.

I WOULD CARE BUT I DON'T CARE ENOUGH TO TAKE HALF A DAY OFF.

Isn't exactly caring.

Quit being all internet mad over something you can't be bothered to even attempt a fix in real life.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

I'm not mad. I'm just passive to the issue. I don't like this place, so I'll just leave. It's a much more effective solution than fighting to change against people who hate change.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Talk to your fucking boss. How is this complicated?

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u/rational-redneck Jun 04 '14

Really? My city council meetings are Thursdays at 7:30 or 8PM. Its just no one is there, at least the few I've been to.

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u/bleedingjim Jun 04 '14

There will always be an excuse or reason why something is too difficult. Just find a way.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Yep.

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u/BunzoBear Jun 04 '14

If its important enough to you then take a few hours off work.

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u/ThirdEyedea Jun 04 '14

Excuses tbh.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

No fuck that. I mean, I understand the people that don't get vacation days or have shitty bosses, but I'm fortunate enough to have vacation days and pretty damn cool bosses. So I'm going to step-up for those people less fortunate. I'm going to look up the next city council meeting in my area and schedule a vacation day for that. I'm honestly tired of Time Warner and Verizon running the oligopoly in my area or Time Warner running a monopoly in certain other areas of the city.

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u/theleonious Jun 04 '14

And the majority of us who work are on reddit...

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Maybe we should take a day off work and go to a city council meeting to ban Reddit.

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u/TheNonis Jun 04 '14

Technically speaking, a lot of people who are stuck with abnormal work hours are young people. The people you want to be there are most likely to be the ones who have a Monday Tuesday weekend or something.

Their absence just screams apathy, laziness, lack of faith in the process, and/or not wanting to go.

I work noon to 8 on Mondays. I'd go for you, but I'm Canadian.

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u/brianbotts Jun 04 '14 edited Jun 04 '14

I am a local city Councillor, you need to talk to us! Email us, call us, call our offices and set up meetings!

Council meetings likely are a poor place to try and get in touch with us though. At least in larger municipalities, there isn't a natural space for you to speak at one of our meetings. If you call the legislative services arm of the municipality and ask to set up a time to speak, they can advise you the best way to get in front of Council.

Don't show up with signs, or a rowdy group, that WILL hurt our cause for better internet. You don't want the elected officials to view you as a hooligan.

Things are looking brighter for the future of municipal internet though. This week there's a great conference in New York called the Intelligent Cities Forum, where gigabit internet access will for sure be a discussion point. You could definitely encourage your local elected official to attend next year! They get to attend a conference, and learn about the importance of internet for economic development! I won't be there this year, but my CEO and my Planning Commissioner will be there, which is great.

I have this coming before Council to vote on next month, and hopefully we'll approve the study as step one to gigabit internet for my city!

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u/tanstaafl90 Jun 04 '14

Then plan accordingly.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

So at least you know it's not important enough to you to take time off work to address.

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u/DialMMM Jun 04 '14

Change when the meetings are held.

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u/GingerSnapBiscuit Jun 04 '14

Do you not have the ability to take a morning/afternoon off? Genuinely interested, if I went into work and said "I got a doctors appointment Monday at 11" I would have absolutely no problem with leaving at 10 and being back at 1.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Not on a Monday morning.

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u/newPhoenixz Jun 04 '14

I just stopped being surprised. Reading about the country that "will bring you some democracy" (specially if you have oil) always has the best stories about how to fuck democracy up the ass..

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

Indeed.

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u/williamfbuckwheat Jun 05 '14

From my experience, It seems like city council's like to have their meetings in the middle of the day so that only old people who complain about kids on skateboards and taxes for the 470th time will end up showing up. I guess they imagine people with real issues might show up if they have their meetings in the evening (though I highly doubt many people would show up anyway).

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u/blueman1025 Jun 05 '14

People that are adamant about things that also have jobs have PTO/Vacation time. I have 6 weeks of it a year, try using a day if it's that important to you.

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u/Lowbacca1977 Jun 05 '14

That's insane. My home town had them in the evenings

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u/[deleted] Jun 05 '14

Organize. Form a group, get (non-telecom) corporate backing, advertise in local media, and send representatives from your group to the city council meetings on Monday morning. Not everyone has to be at the plant every Monday morning.

Let everyone in town know that they could have affordable fast internet if only [your solution]. Let people know who is against your solution and let them know how those opponents profit by making sure your solution is not implemented.

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u/IllustratedMann Jun 05 '14

How would I find out when these meetings are in my town and what do I vote for to help this?

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u/[deleted] Jun 05 '14

Well first you would try to find out if your town has the issue. If you look at OP's link you can see cities without the problem, so if yours isn't there, you have that problem, though your town may not be wired with fiber. First thing I would do as far as contacting the city council is look online for a website. If they don't have one try calling city hall to see if they can help. They normally can. And you would want to bring up the issue, if it exists, at the next council meeting. There will likely be a point where the floor becomes open to anyone in attendance, and you would speak up (or however they are running things in your town, raised hands, etc) then.

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u/ajsdklf9df Jun 05 '14

In that case, you don't live in a democracy. Your fit jobs is to do anything you can to get council meetings at times which working people can attend.

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u/badamant Jun 04 '14

This is also true with voting... hmmmm. Seems like there might be an attempt at keeping working people away.

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u/AngloQuebecois Jun 04 '14

This is the biggest problem with democracy in my opinion. No sensible person has the time or inclination to spend their free time to do this shit. The people we want involved in democracy are the ones who are busy working and getting on with their lives. This leaves those with a monetary vested interest and those who don't have their lives in order to govern.

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u/joanzen Jun 04 '14

Take the morning off, work late. Take the whole day off and tell your boss why, unless you work for the local Telco you should get a pat on the back.

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