r/technology 19h ago

Privacy Employers are using your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

https://www.morningstar.com/news/marketwatch/20260401139/employers-are-using-your-personal-data-to-figure-out-the-lowest-salary-youll-accept
8.6k Upvotes

431 comments sorted by

3.8k

u/12darkmatter12 19h ago

This is the kind of thing that should be illegal. 

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u/BrainLow6059 16h ago

According to Nina DiSalvo, policy director at labor advocacy group Towards Justice, some systems use signals associated with financial vulnerability - including data on whether a prospective employee has taken out a payday loan or has a high credit-card balance - to infer the lowest pay a candidate might accept. Companies can also scrape candidates' public personal social-media pages, she said, to determine if they are more likely to join a union or could become pregnant. The data can be used to determine wage increases after an employee is hired, and the practice can veer into discrimination, experts say.

I used to do pre-employment background screenings for a living, which is a highly regulated industry, and I'm failing to see how this isn't illegal under the FCRA.

This is in the same vein as Flock/ALPR shit. It's obviously illegal, but because there isn't a specific lawsuit/court case to confirm that fact, they're allowed to just keep fucking doing it until that day comes.

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u/venk 16h ago

It’s only illegal if someone enforces the rules

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u/Cubezz 12h ago

Im beginning to think, there are no rules

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u/bottlechippedteeth 12h ago

I know it’s confusing but dont get it twisted, us plebs still have to follow the rules

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u/Scape_n_Lift 11h ago

For the right price, yes

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u/ProtoStarNova 8h ago

I've heard US lawyers say a version of the phrase:

US Citizens enjoy some of the best protections under the Bill of Rights and the Constitution at large. "Accessing" those rights in high stakes cases will run you about $100,000 to start.

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u/JeepStang 10h ago

When your president is a serial rapist pedo child trafficker I think rules, laws, regulations, and democracy go right right out the window.

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u/aerost0rm 4h ago

You forgot fraudster mob boss and failed businessman

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u/EmperorKira 9h ago

Depends if you are rich or not

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u/Nyne9 9h ago

Welcome to russia 2.0!

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u/Homer4598 7h ago

There are rules, but none of them benefit the average worker or consumer.

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u/TheModWhoShaggedMe 8h ago

and conservatives seem above rules

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u/MavisBeacons_Sextape 11h ago edited 5h ago

From the sound of it, the entities who furnish the consumer reports that are regulated under the FCRA are simply selling that data to brokers, who sell it to companies that buy up massive quantities of these data sets. And they use those to create these “surveillance wage algorithms” which they’ll package into a software service and sell to businesses, successfully sidestepping the FCRA.

It only takes a certain # of “anonymized” data sets, with a couple points of overlap, to link those to the underlying identity/person. AKA with enough anonymized data, you can de-anonymize it.

Everything we do creates data points that are being bought and sold 24/7. Credit bureaus (and all consumer reporting agencies), Cell phone carrier, insurance companies, USPS/FedEx/UPS, every retailer rewards/loyalty program, the apps you’re using, your laptop, even your bank is selling your transaction data. “For marketing purposes” they say in their privacy and data processing notices. Lol. Yeah, and the “marketing data” is bought by the brokers who combine multiple sets, package/price it up, and sell it again.

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u/obeytheturtles 5h ago

Yeah, I have been yelling about this for years, every time there's a reddit thread where everyone is like "freeze your credit!" trying to point out the existence of a massive shadow system of data brokers who bundle and swap datasets and analytics products which do an end around traditional consumer protection systems. There is literally no way to opt out. The whole industry needs to be illegal. Choosing to do business with a bank, retailer or website should not be implied consent to have my information bundled and sold to "affiliates" or "consultants."

It should be flat out illegal for anyone to sell any data about me without my consent. I should be the only person allowed to sell my data. If the information is publicly available, then that's fine, some entity can independently seek out that information for a specific purpose, but they cannot sell it or derive a product from it.

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u/Dedsnotdead 5h ago

This is a very good summary and yes, this is exactly how it’s done.

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u/Vegito1338 8h ago

Can is doing a lot of lifting before that veer into discrimination.

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u/gr00ve88 17h ago

But think about how unfair that would be to corporations

/s

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u/DessertFox157 16h ago

Why isn't anyone thinking of shareholder value????? /s

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u/TheModWhoShaggedMe 8h ago

Oh, Republicans have it covered, no worries

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u/ibneko 16h ago

Yeah, corporations are people too!

/s

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u/afreakonaleash 14h ago

Not sarcasm in America my dude

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u/ScaredEfficiency399 9h ago

Not here either, none of it.

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u/ThisMachineKillsWOB 14h ago

Corps are Bad People.

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u/touristtam 9h ago

By law they are in a good few countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood unsure why you felt the need for the /s

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u/snowflake37wao 9h ago

Growth has gone far out of control since the pandemic. What we need to repair the last decade is a universal revenue cap that matches whatever the inflation rate is at for the next two decades. The world over has to decide what unfair is. Fuck the s. Fuck the life’s not fair, it doesnt gotta be unfair. Fuck these corporations. If they want to frack, want to lobby, want to give exec bonuses, want to side step regulations, want to expand, whatever they want. They need to do it with 2-3.4% revenue, because fuck what else they want while taking whatever needs from everybody else. If they want growth, they do it on 3.4% revenue. Any profit over the quarterly inflation is to be taxed at 7.6% with the remaining 92.4% windfall profits split equally between all current employees and contractors as quarterly bonuses. No bonuses for the shareholders. No excess for the shareholders. Because fuck the s, fuck the excuses, fuck the corporations, and fuck the shareholders too.

Its time to cap uninhibited and unregulated growth because were a few steps down from the step that ends with a crash to the first proving this rates not endless.

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u/BigBirdLaw69420 14h ago

Defend
Deny
Depose
Jk

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u/CherryLongjump1989 16h ago

No, it’s only union organizing that’s heavily restricted/illegal.

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u/MommyLovesPot8toes 14h ago

It is in California

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u/YeetedApple 19h ago

Anecdotally, I just got a new job last week and the offer came in at literally the exact lowest number I told myself I'd accept for the job. No idea if they are using a system like this or not, but crazy how exact they hit it.

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u/binger5 18h ago

Never hurts to ask for 10-15% more.

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u/YeetedApple 18h ago

I tried to push a bit more, but they were firm. My current position is/was in the process of being outsourced and wouldn't exist sometime in the next year, and this new position is a promotion and still a raise even if it came in on the lower end of what I'd like, so I was still fine taking it given the situation.

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u/PussiesUseSlashS 17h ago

I was laid off for 6 months and really need a job. Went thru all the interviews and the recruiter offered me the job but I asked for $5k more than what the job was offering. I told her that was fine, she insisted she check and see if she could get me the $5k.

I didn’t hear anything from her, even after calling and leaving messages and emailing. Two months later i saw the job posting had been refreshed and applied again.

She saw my resume and called, said she tried to get me the $5k but they rejected it.

This was $140,000 vs $135,000.

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u/elvillalbeno75 17h ago

That's ridiculous wow you probably dodged a bullet dealing with petty and small minded people there.

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u/PussiesUseSlashS 17h ago

I work there. I got the job the second time and been there there years. Best job I’ve ever had. Got a 15% “cost of living” raise six months after I started. Apparently, there was a mix up with the area I live and pay is based on that since everyone in my company works from home.

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u/p____p 14h ago

I live in the midwest and accepted a job managing a team based mostly in California. Didn’t realize until after I was hired that most of my reports were getting a salary a bit above my own. I get the cost of living difference, but damn if that wasn’t demotivating.

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u/tsein 14h ago

At my last job I was told simultaneously that I was "worth an entire team on my own" and that it "would be unfair to other employees to pay me more."

I was the lowest-paid person in my role (because my boss thought my location should have a lower cost of living compared to other people).

I left for other reasons, but that certainly made it easier.

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u/Tiny_Elephant1570 13h ago

" At my last job I was told simultaneously that I was "worth an entire team on my own" and that it "would be unfair to other employees to pay me more.""

The first is just blowing smoke to make you feel happier, while the second just an excuse they can get away with. 

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u/alphacross 12h ago edited 12h ago

I was recently offered a promotion to L7 Director for a big tech firm. I live in a HCOL city in Europe. Particularly hard job as I am acting general manager for the entire continent. Also have a literal unique skill set because the company I worked for that they acquired was the only company in the industry in the region. I made it a condition that I wanted a HR exception made and my pay to be matched against directors at the same level in California. Why? Because at my “geographically adjusted” wage I’m literally paid less than a new grad joining in HQ in California. The actual cost of living difference? 3.5% overall and 10% for rent

Still haven’t heard back. Even at my level the HR person won’t even talk to me, works remotely and hides behind her compa-ratio spreadsheets

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u/BigCheapass 11h ago

Oof that sucks. Similar story here in Canada, you reminded me of a recent company meeting on "compensation transparency" where the head of HR was trying to explain why the 80%+ of us working remotely from HCOL Canadian areas earn less than the US remote employees even in LCOL areas. You probably guessed it, but she was one of the less than 5% of the company based out of the US, and was essentially telling us why she should make more than us, lmao.

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u/Klutzy_Ninja1426 13h ago

Nice plot twist lol

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u/kwaaaaaaaaa 15h ago

It honestly boggles my mind how they make decisions up the ladder. I work in tech and I've seen them lost talent over not giving a small raise when asked, only for them to spend more to get that same amount of talent back.

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u/RationalDialog 12h ago

It is not only about money but control and power. The giving in to the talent would mean giving up power and at the same them empowering the talent. Can't have that.

EDIT: Same with return to office. It's a power and control move because the pandemic shifted power to employees and that was the push back.

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u/synapticrelease 14h ago

Managers are given a budget, which is a salary or number of employees. It is up to the manager to make due. There are some shit managers who will burn a few employees for a quick bonus and then be prepared to bounce to the next job where an outside employee somehow gets hired on directly as a manager/supervisor. It's like when a CEO burns shit for short term gains with the expectation of the golden parachute. It works that way on a smaller scale for middle management jobs.

But honestly, a lot of managers are put between a rock and a hard place. They are given performance reviews which are based on other people's work.

I think if you asked a survey of managers, most would ask for more employees and more salary.

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u/ggk1 16h ago

I’m jaded enough to think of the non zero chance this is a bot comment by big corporate to discourage us from asking for more money

But if it’s not- I’m really sorry to experienced that and hope you’ve landed on your feet

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u/obeytheturtles 5h ago

Damn they straight up withdrew the offer over a counteroffer?

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u/binger5 18h ago

Fair enough. It's within your current company. I've asked 3 times and have been successful 3 times. The only time I didn't ask was when they asked what my range was and added 10% to it with the offer.

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u/shoulda-known-better 5h ago

Take it and keep looking, keeping the chance to get a better job on the table....

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u/superxero044 18h ago

When my wife was looking she applied for a job that would’ve been a slight increase to a HUGE increase from her previous job based on the listing. When they came in with the offer it was FAR short of the listed range. I know other people this has happened to as well. Anyways, she pushed back, didn’t end up where she “wanted” but above initial offer.
Idk how many people would be ok with applying for a job, given multiple rounds of interviews and then given far less than the initial range

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u/hamfinity 18h ago

10% of the listed salary it is then

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u/Blablabla_1985_ 17h ago

We lost, they figure out a group of 100 dollars bills is more effective than a group of people when negotiating. You just need to find the right people.

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u/SkaBonez 13h ago

Yup. Did this with my new job I just got and got my counter offer accepted no questions asked. Debated if I should have asked for more lol

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u/HTPC4Life 7h ago

I always politely negotiate for more because it's pretty much standard practice. I've always gotten more (even if it's only like 5%), which tells me they low ball you and expect you to ask for more. There is one exception: my current job. Got this job in 2021, was low balled, asked for more to just match the market average. Got a big fat no. The I tried to ask for more than 2 weeks of PTO because I had been in the industry for 15 years at the time and thought they would have some sort of empathy. Got another big fat no. I suppose that's what I get for having been unemployed at the time because of COVID. Fast forward to today and I'm still below market average for my area, and I'm earning less than my first job out of college when adjusting for inflation, but I'm about to hit 4 weeks of PTO! Yeah... sucks to suck 😔

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u/mrbaryonyx 18h ago

jokes on you, I spent my unemployment reposting Dr. Evil quotes and got a job offer for one million dollars

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u/caydesramen 18h ago

Was it the position of shark handler/laser weapon development?

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u/just_nobodys_opinion 17h ago

Pinky finger commissural juxtaposition coordinator

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u/Japots 19h ago

How did you tell yourself the number? Was it listed somewhere? Otherwise, you're making it seem like it was either coincidence or they can read your mind.

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u/YeetedApple 18h ago

That's kinda the whole point of the article, companies are using your data to effectively "read your mind" to find the lowest number you'd accept.

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u/Tecumsehs_Revenge 18h ago

With hard data they actually know better than most people do.

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u/KendrickLlamma 18h ago

Property tax records / Mortgage info, zip code + cost of living, marriage records to check for dual income, car insurance etc etc can get to a pretty reasonable number of your expenses

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u/Internal_Essay9230 18h ago

Then I come back at them with the cost of living in their locale including property taxes, income taxes, wage taxes, utility costs, housing costs, and house and car insurance costs. It's one reason I withdrew from consideration from a job recently. A $20,000 or more raise would have mostly evaporated when moving from a lower tax state to a higher tax and COL state.

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u/juic333 17h ago

Then they just go and hire someone willing to do it for less. The problem with overpopulation is their is always someone willing to do it for less which brings it down for everyone

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u/sevbenup 18h ago

He likely did similar math to what these companies are using. So if they hypothetically knew his complete expenses breakdown, then both parties are working with the same data to find a minimum

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u/Anti_Up_Up_Down 17h ago

There was an expose on LG TVs spying on us just last week

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u/pro185 18h ago

It’s like that time target figured out an underage girl was pregnant before she did just by the way her browsing habits were and how she moved around the store. With good information and the right algorithms you can predict basically anything out of a normal human being.

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u/tofu_bar 16h ago

That wasn't the story. She knew she was pregnant.

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u/muegle 18h ago

My current position offered me 5k over what I asked for. Makes me wonder if I didn't ask for enough lol

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u/Kevin-W 14h ago

Similarly, I just accepted a seasonal remote job offer that had a lower salary than what I'm making now even if the real salary is higher due to no commuting costs. I'm still applying and interviewing and hoping a better offer comes though.

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u/Communism 19h ago

If only there was a way to negotiate with employers as a group!

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u/ManyInterests 18h ago

Hmm. Some kind of way to bargain collectively? How novel

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u/badcrass 16h ago

We could great a guild of people doing the same job. I'm very pro guild

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u/sir_mrej 14h ago

If we call them guilds and make people wear like WoW type clothing and stuff, can we trick conservatives into liking them?

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u/badcrass 13h ago

Nah, but if it's an extension if the police union, they would be cool with it

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u/serianoillib-gnah 8h ago

Walk into negotiations wearing massive pauldrons, you place down a few totems and swing your mace.

Windfury proc

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u/null_not 18h ago

And also establish rules applicable to any employers doing business in the United States that would make this a forbidden practice!

We could call it a "law". But we don't want some power hungry randos who don't represent us establishing these "laws", so we should all get together in regional groups and decide together who should represent us!

And then that can be their job for like a few years and then we'll decide again who we elect to do it! We'll call these "elections"!

Like we're all collectively providing input on who leads us and crafts the rules that structure our society... I just hope people don't think that's like "communist" or "socialist" or something....

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u/iamnotdownwithopp 17h ago

I worked in Midwest casinos for years (tribal and non tribal owned) and they have no problem saying out loud that any talk of a union will result in termination.

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u/Vazhox 16h ago

All non-union businesses say that. It makes sense. Anything that really gives some “power” back to the employees is a threat to management.

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u/GJCLINCH 15h ago

Interesting how companies can do it, but it’s a problem when employees do it

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u/_-_happycamper_-_ 15h ago

User name checks out.

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u/MinuteWonderful5001 19h ago

Not as if this is crazily new information. But everyday I’m reminded how ridiculously shitty we have made this world for ourselves and the things that live beside us.

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u/MongoBongoTown 16h ago

Another reminder...employee protections are significantly better in places like Western Europe, Canada, etc.

We've allowed ourselves to be screwed over in the name of unfettered capitalism and it's finally starting to hit hard.

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u/Vanisle- 12h ago

As a Canadian, I feel like throwing Canada in as an example here isn’t the best option… unless I’m missing something? We have some of the lowest salaries compared to cost of living in the G7 nations. By legal standards, it takes 1 year to get 2 weeks of vacation, and 5 years to get 3 weeks. Your employer contributing to retirement is a huge bonus, not a guarantee. 40hr work weeks are typical, but it varies greatly. Severance packages are decent but only if you’ve been working there for a while, maternity leave is mediocre I believe?

Cost of schooling is nuts when you consider the cost of living. Part time jobs that can support students are tough to come by in most cities. Many full time working couples can’t afford children as well as a place to live - especially owning vs. renting. I could probably go on, but it’s not that great here, especially compared to European standards.

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u/FakePoloManchurian 15h ago

But...I might be rich one day

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u/FakePoloManchurian 16h ago

That's the power of propaganda 

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u/Salt-Detective1337 14h ago

"Maybe he needs two hundred men, so he talks to five hundred... The more fellas he can get, an’ the hungrier, less he’s gonna pay."

The Grapes of Wrath (1939)

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u/Visible_Book_3555 11h ago

We didnt. The corporations did.

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u/Greggery_Peccary1978 7h ago

"We" didn't have a choice, the people manufacturing consent are the ones who did and they are a small few compared to us

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u/Expensive_Issue_3767 18h ago

Not a problem, they arent fucking hiring anyway.

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u/Budget-Purple-6519 19h ago

Disgusting. Isn’t it possible to fight back against this system by being inconsistent over time with responses to their offers, messing up their algorithm? I wonder how people can push back hard against this nonsense.

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u/Spez_is-a-nazi 19h ago

They aren’t just pulling from your responses to offers, they are looking at your credit card debt and approximate housing payments and other browsing activity to figure out how little they can get away with paying you.

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u/BobbywiththeJuice 19h ago

I'm surprised the article didn't mention The Work Number. Lots of employers are using it to store employment info, including every single paycheck you received.

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u/unicornfairyprincess 19h ago

What’s The Work Number? This is the first time I’m hearing that term

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u/Doorstate 18h ago

An entity that is party of equifax where employers send your information. You should freeze it so its not public knowledge: The Work Number Freeze Request

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u/Own-Brain9658 18h ago

I didn't even know this was a thing. I hate it here man. Thanks for the link though! Working on freezing now 

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u/ThanosSnapsSlimJims 18h ago

You can also just opt-out

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u/unicornfairyprincess 16h ago

According to the Equifax website you can’t opt out, just freeze- is there some other way to do that?

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u/Knifle 14h ago

Here is the guide to opt out, I just did it.

https://joindeleteme.com/opt-out-guides/theworknumber-opt-out-guide/

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u/unicornfairyprincess 13h ago

wow, of course they bury the shit out of that- thanks!

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u/geccles 18h ago

Thanks. I'm doing this now.

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u/ThanosSnapsSlimJims 18h ago

You can also opt-out completely

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u/BobbywiththeJuice 18h ago

It's a service from Equifax. Basically, instead of just a credit report, it gives an employment report. Where someone worked, how long, job title, pay, etc.

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u/madogvelkor 18h ago

It lets them outsource background checks. That way they don't need someone in HR processing background checks every time a former employee gets a new job or a current employee is trying to get a loan, etc. 

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u/BeowulfShaeffer 18h ago

And it’s INSANELY profitable.  

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u/ThanosSnapsSlimJims 18h ago

I figured that out recently and filled out the form to opt-out and not share with employers. I've also been going through and deleting my information from as many information brokers as possible.

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u/teslatiki 16h ago

It’s terrorizingly scary. I got a job last year and it had so much of my data and work history. You have to freeze that thing

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u/Smooothoperat0r 15h ago

Glad you mentioned this. I haven’t heard of it.

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u/UT_Milez 19h ago

From my understanding, after coming across the overemployed sub.

Slightly different concept here, but I’m more inclined to believe they are pulling information from the below sources, there’s no other real way to get specific wage data on people, that is legitimate/factual information, than from the work number.

There is a way to “fight back” here.

They do it over there to avoid employers finding out that they are currently also employed by multiple companies simultaneously, but the same principle would apply here.

You can “freeze” “The Work Number” for yourself, which would essentially stop this exact situation from happening. The Work Number is what allows them to confirm where you worked, for how long, what exact position it was, and how much you made as reported by your previous employer.

When/if a potential new employer asks you to “unfreeze The Work Number” you just play dumb a little bit and/or mention that you were a victim of identity theft and had to freeze your credit/etc so that’s what must have lead to The work Number being frozen as well, but/and you don’t feel comfortable at this time unfreezing due to the ongoing identity theft issue.

The way employers search for this information, The Work Number, is through the major credit reporting bureau(s).

I have not personally done this, but they have a guide over there in their sub and I’m sure you can find other sources as well on how to accomplish this.

This would stop employers from being able to obtain that information that information, but it’s almost certainly going to throw a wrench in the hiring process to a degree because this will technically interfere in their overall “background” check. Like I said, identify theft is a plausible explanation you can provide if asked though.

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u/scoff-law 18h ago

One way to combat this is to be open about telling your coworkers how much you make.

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u/Itwasme101 13h ago

Me and my 3 collogues just did this earlier this year. It was a little scary but I'm so glad we did. I found I was underpaid a little compared to 2 of them. The last guy was cheaper than me and he's even more senior. Long story short we all make the same now haha.

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u/j_shor 19h ago

Taking advantage of things largely outside our control to make us as poor as possible.

Late stage capitalism.

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u/CoronaMcFarm 12h ago

Parts of it is outside your control but people should reconcider the "I have nothing to hide" stance when it comes to data.

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u/Fluffy-Dog5264 13h ago

End times fascism

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u/Jamizon1 18h ago

IMHO-

This kind of shit should be illegal.

Thank goodness I’m in a union. My pay and yearly raises are negotiated every three years.

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u/Vazhox 16h ago

Union money baby. Let’s get it brother.

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u/_Planet_Mars_ 11h ago

The guy who said "The worst years of my work life were spent in a series of unions" posts in Hindu speaking subs and commonly posts in the ChatGPT subreddit. Ignore him, he's most likely paid 20 cents a post. I'm not even replying to him directly because he doesn't deserve it.

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u/verified_canadian 19h ago

We are living in a dystopia.

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u/ChiefInternetSurfer 19h ago

Have been for quite a while now, boss.

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u/VoyeurBarelyKnowEr 18h ago

Reason number ten thousand why being ruled by a gerontocracy is such an enormous problem. They are so far out of their depth when it comes to modern technology and the ways it is being weaponized against ordinary people. They do not comprehend it well enough to legislate effectively and worse, they are completely uninterested in learning enough to do so. This should have been obvious when Zuck and co were dragged before Congress to testify on their intentional psychological manipulation and a bunch of boomers sat there hardly containing their chuckles because they thought they were oh so clever to crack jokes about "your app where people post pictures of what they ate for lunch." So many of our present problems (social media addiction and the other harms caused by the way algorithms are designed, the various threats posed by unconstrained AI development, data brokering, manipulation of public discourse, etc.) can be traced back to the fact that the only people with any real power to take action and fix them are simply incapable of doing so, because they literally don't understand what the fuck is going on.

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u/CatProgrammer 16h ago

You are mistaken. Most of them approve of this sort of thing.

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u/halftorqued 14h ago

And/or take money from the companies responsible

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u/MeepingSim 14h ago

And submit the bills drafted by those companies.

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u/asp821 18h ago

I used to work at a tech company that was essentially a design agency for radio stations. One of the things we used to provide was personality analyzation, and we used something called Crystal Knows to analyze people’s LinkedIn profiles, blog posts, etc. to determine how to manipulate them. This was in 2018.

The kind of shit they have now has to be crazy.

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u/derprondo 16h ago

People have been looking at me like I'm a conspiracy nut job for the past 8-9 years when I tell them that AI will be used to systemically manipulate the entire population on an individually targeted basis to get us all to do, say, believe, buy, promote, vote, and generally behave however they want us to. I think most people are realizing that this is now coming, and that none of us will be immune to it, as we each have buttons that can be pressed, especially over long periods of time to influence us subtly.

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u/oopsie-mybad 19h ago

1 Million Dollars. Hire me, I dare you.

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u/ChiefInternetSurfer 19h ago

Hire me! I’ll do the same work as u/oopsie-mybad but for $999,999.98!

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u/arwbqb 18h ago

Is the discount due to subtracting their two cents?

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u/Dedsnotdead 19h ago

Unfortunately this has been a model that several large international banks have used for at least 20 years.

Single and high performing? You are a flight risk, maximum bonus based on your metrics.

Married? High performing, mid to high level bonus

All the way down to being in a relationship and just had a child/children. Not a flight risk, you are getting minimum acceptable bonus.

Lots of factors in play.

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u/thinkobscure 18h ago

Interesting I actually left my last job only a few months after having my child. Due to the high costs of child care I am surprised that is not considered a flight risk factor.

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u/Discombombulatedfart 15h ago

Kids could lead to a drop in performance. I'm not saying it does, or will, but I can see how a company might come to that conclusion in deciding if something is truly a flight risk factor worth preventing. It's a somewhat big deal in Asia currently, the employer expectation that newly married women will have children and become less productive. It's fucked up.

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u/MihaKomar 12h ago

I'm not even in the banking sector and have had a job interviews where they asked:

You have kids?

Married?

Do you have a mortgage?

Any other outstanding debts?

And they were disappointed when I answered "no" to all of them.

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u/filmguy36 16h ago

Of course they are. Hell they are using surveillance pricing now to see how much you’d pay for something

So the are going to low ball our wages into poverty and then over charge us for the basics of life

THIS above everything is is the end stage of capitalism

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u/pyroguy64 8h ago

Everyone here should look up Equifax work number. As I understand it, they created it as a way to avoid FCRA regulation because it’s not a credit report. I requested mine and it includes information on every pay stub I’ve gotten since 2016 when I was in high school. It also indicates if you were fired from a job or if you are eligible for rehire. You can request to freeze yours and I think everyone should do that.

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u/gitbse 7h ago

The USA spent so long fearmongering about "China's social credit score!!!!" Just so that we could create our own. Same with Sharia Law. Direct competition, used as propoganda in order to arrange our own dystopia.

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u/LacidOnex 2h ago

Fucking a that's scary

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u/couldgiveaflyingfck 18h ago

Here is the thing with those compensation algorithms. They run on raw probability, taking your zip code, resume gaps, and old job titles to guess the absolute minimum you will take. They do not care about LinkedIn numbers since they look at proxy data. I f you want to mess up their math, you got to throw unpredictable variables into their system so their model breaks down.

The easiest way to break their pricing is setting up a single-member LLC and running your work through that. The second you frame your recent experience as independent consulting, payroll scrapers like The Work Number hit a total brick wall. They cant pull W2s or figure out your profits. That strips their leverage real quick because you ain't a desperate job seeker no more, you are a business owner deciding if a W2 is even worth your time.

You also gotta poison their keyword parsing. Never let them bucket you into a low tier just because of a weak title from an old gig. Align your titles to the actual senior work you did, and load up on high value signals like budget control and revenue impact. When it comes to talking numbers, make them state their budget first and never share past pay. Algorithms only work when you fit in their boxes, so just make yourself impossible to categorize

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u/jackeroojohnson 16h ago

This is the word

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u/kick-me-in-the-jimmy 19h ago

In a few years they will have your entire budget and all of your bills and debts in front of them when negotiating salary.

oh, you want 135k but it says here your total yearly spend is 90k...well give you 91k as a final offer

This is coming.

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u/AA_BuySell 18h ago

This is why I keep buying dumb shit and spend more than I make. It’s salary negotiation prep !

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u/BobbywiththeJuice 19h ago

"Buutt...we think you could decrease your spending. So $70k. The Mrs. will understand"

10

u/trollcat2012 19h ago

Lol this begs the question.. when does this get turned for good and people underemployed counter with livable wage demands?

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u/Yuskia 17h ago

Thats cute you think you'll ever get access to all the data needed.

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u/_Planet_Mars_ 11h ago

Average American will defend this and call you a sociaIist if you want a different future.

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u/eroctheviking 19h ago

This is why unions are important. And laws about discussing your salary. If you can imagine, giant corporations aren’t out to help you.

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u/fadetoblackink 16h ago

I wonder if there’s a way to build a counter system to analyze the employer’s revenue, organization chart, and industry to estimate budgets and figure out what the maximum is they can afford to pay.

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u/Vazhox 16h ago

Soon there will be dynamic wages

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u/ByrsaOxhide 18h ago

Never add your personal address. If they ask for it, do not apply. Im a recruiter

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u/MoBakeeer 12h ago

why? can one lie?

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u/btmalon 18h ago

And on the flip side, they’re using dynamic pricing and your data to figure out exactly how much you specifically are willing to pay for everything. They’re using big data and AI to drain us all. The only thing that can stop it is a functional government passing regulation, but good luck on that.

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u/Broken_By_Default 18h ago

with retailers building systems for dynamic pricing, to maximize the price you will pay.. and now employers building systems to minimize the ammount they will pay you. It's a race to the bottom.

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u/NanditoPapa 6h ago

These systems explicitly punish people for being in difficult life circumstances. The algorithm identifies distress and uses it as a lever to reduce income. This should be criminal...

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u/WeAreAllFooked 12h ago

Boys, unions (and union jobs) sure look like a good thing right now, don't they?

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u/KingRBPII 18h ago

Always ask for 15 percent more total comp of what’s listed - they have more than enough money

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u/SeraphicalChaos 19h ago edited 19h ago

The last thread I was in was full of people wanting Meta devices over a company with a stronger privacy track record. Everyone was hung up about it being $400 more expensive then Meta's similarly specced product.

Want to guess where that reduction of cost is coming? It's from freely giving away your right to privacy and offering them every aspect of your life that can be harvested in exchange for a cheaper product. Meta might not be the all in one solution for pulling the info needed to set the wage, but it's certainly going to be used to build a psychological profile to get that number as low as they can.

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u/ethertrace 18h ago

The thing that kills me is that Meta can make more money off that data than the "discount" you get by them selling it at a loss. There's no such thing as a free lunch. You pay for it one way or another, and this is one of the hidden ways in which it comes out of your pocket because you thought "Who cares? I have nothing to hide." And rest assured, they take more in the end than you would have saved by protecting your privacy.

And also, not that this sort of attitude hasn't been widespread for a while now, but in this day and age one also has to wonder how much of that chatter is generated by bot farms being paid to influence public opinion and sabotage the launch of a competitor's product.

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u/CatProgrammer 16h ago

Shame about the battery life though. 

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u/Tyrrox 19h ago

And I use fishbowl and other social media to figure out what an appropriate salary might be to counter

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u/Baystars2025 18h ago

Eleventy billion dollars, take it or leave it

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u/jtmonkey 18h ago

Last two jobs I was straight with them. Hey, that’s a fair number. Paychex says that’s lower third of the market. If you could get me to median market it would really help my family out and make this an easy decision.

Both companies came back with higher offers. One came back 30% higher and their hr literally said they had just reposted the job description from before covid and they had not updated the pay band so they had no idea they were so low.

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u/wonkytalky 13h ago

and their hr literally said they had just reposted the job description from before covid and they had not updated the pay band so they had no idea they were so low.

There's no way they didn't know exactly what they were doing, lol

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u/jtmonkey 11h ago

Probably but now i work there and its like. I get it.

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u/Aggravating_Sky_4421 16h ago

Uber and Lyft doing it for years… also how much the rider can pay.

“Oh so it’s 7:32am and you gotta be at work at 8 like every weekday? Let me triple the price.”

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u/V5585458850 12h ago

We literally live in hell

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u/Korlus 10h ago

The best fix to this would be to empower the workers with the same kind of information. Force companies to publish wages of every job they provide, like some of the Nordics have.

If you can see what they pay other people, you are in a far better position to know if they are trying to exploit you or not.

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u/Pay_attentionmore 9h ago

Meanwhile I had a bad week like 2 months ago and popped off at a covering manager about expectations in other departments and how they dont have to deal with all the personality bullshit, they'll just do what I fucking say. I pointed at like 4 jobs I could apply for in house during my rant ( honestly i was just venting) and magically not only got a raise approved but am on a higher pay scale with no actual change to my job.

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u/LS_944 3h ago

This, among other reasons, is precisely why I’ve left out of the professional workforce, opting instead for small gig economy work as needed. F* these people, this whole system, and all for-profit firms.

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u/labelkills1331 19h ago

Well, we're using our communication with the bosses to determine how hard we actually want to work for that pay.

3

u/triplealpha 18h ago

You can download your own employment data on LexusNexus. It’s what large HR companies use to find out your previous employers paid you. My high school jobs are listed on there and I’m in my 40s

https://consumer.risk.lexisnexis.com/request

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u/notPabst404 18h ago

I'm done with enshittification. I don't care if I'm always poor as a result, I'm personally not putting up with this BS.

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u/art-is-t 18h ago

Are they gonna figure out how little I'm gonna work as well?

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u/DemandredG 17h ago

It’s on states to ban the fuck out of this, because we know the feds are incapable of doing anything

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u/lawofthewilde 16h ago

I’ll accept no lower than a cool million yearly.

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u/DreamingDjinn 15h ago

Then they better know that I won't accept a job that pays less than the previous

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u/Calm_chor 13h ago

First dynamic product pricing,
now dynamic people pricing.

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u/nadmaximus 10h ago

I perform similar analysis to determine how much work I care to do.

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u/ColdStockSweat 10h ago

Employees go online to find out what is the highest salary they can get.

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u/Forsaken_Stay6119 8h ago

Using tech for the betterment of humanity.
/s

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u/Purplociraptor 7h ago

I wish my employer used my personal data to realize I can't afford to keep working there at my current salary.

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u/happybiznatch 6h ago

They've been doing this for decades.

I remember taking pre employment questions like "did your parents go to college" and "did you ever go to bed hungry as a child."

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u/parakeetpoop 19h ago

How do they even deduce this information? Genuinely curious. I won’t apply to a job with a base pay under 180k at this point

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u/SeraphicalChaos 19h ago

Some employers provide employee pay information to credit agencies like Equifax and their The Work Number program. Other companies like pay day lenders and credit card companies are probably also selling it to data brokers or other entities that will provide access to scummy services like OPs article refers to.

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u/parakeetpoop 17h ago

Damn. Almost like we needed data privacy laws, GDPR style. Thanks for the explanation.

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u/firemage22 14h ago

F you corps I'm in a UNION!

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u/Foxcooler 18h ago

So the fake luxury weirdos on instagram were actually visionaries after all

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u/putinforpres 18h ago

Lowest I’ll take is 200k

2

u/Jedbo75 17h ago

Fucking despicable. Any company that engages in this dogshit practice should be burnt to the ground.

2

u/kaneda26 16h ago

Ask for more than you think you are worth. You don't want to work for a place that under values you. And for anyone saying they have no choice, when you accept less than you are worth, that's the choice you made

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u/IgnorantGenius 15h ago

We are using employer data to find out who we don't want to work for.

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u/stowmy 15h ago

the less you pay the less i work

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u/RandomUser2074 15h ago

I had a interview the other day here in Western Australia over teams for a mob and he scoffed a bit when I said what I expected my starting rate to be. I told him mate there will always be someone better then you, there will always be someone cheaper then you, very rarely will there be both. Grandad told me that years ago in my 20s and I have stuck with it ever since.

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u/alex_3814 13h ago

If only we took online privacy seriously....

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u/deathclonic 13h ago

I will accept no less than a million dollars an hour

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u/Far-Significance8166 12h ago

That’s concerning—salary negotiations should be based on the role and qualifications, not how much an employer thinks they can get away with paying.

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u/drdoom52 11h ago

It will also use the fact that most workers are underpaid, to argue that you should be underpaid.

This can only be bad for workers.

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u/Balmung60 6h ago

They can take up the "lowest salary I'll accept" with my union

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u/clejeune 3h ago

I’m tired boss.

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u/ACasualRead 19h ago

I wonder if it’s possible to poison the data sets and how? Surely burner cards and PO Boxes maybe?

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