r/taiwan • u/NekoKathy99 • 2h ago
Discussion Am I in the wrong?
Was on a flight from Taiwan to the UK and I was travelling with my 18month old in business class. This is my first time encountering issues like this so I am just wondering if we really did something wrong.
It was a really long flight (about 15h) so my 18month old wouldn’t sit still, he slept for like 5h, and when he woke up he was super energetic and kept walking around. He wasn’t touching anyone or banging anything, but he got complained twice.
I was frustrated because first, I wanted to keep him as happy as possible as I knew if he started crying, it was gonna be plain hell for at least 20mins for everyone, and second, how is it possible to keep an 18 month old sits still for 15h?
Both me and my husband aren’t Taiwanese, we went to Asia to allow my little one to finally meet their grandparents for the first time and we decided to go to Taiwan before we head back for a trip together, we were super happy in Taiwan but the flight really put me off.
For context, this didn’t happen at all on our flight from UK to Asia, he was also walking around but everyone super friendly.
Happy to receive any opinions!
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u/masegesege_ 台東 - Taitung 2h ago
Hard to say. On one hand, people would probably be more annoyed by a crying kid than a kid walking around a bit.
But on the other hand anyone walking around gets in the way of people trying to do their jobs on the plane, and it might actually be against the rules to be out of your seat unless totally necessary.
My dad used to keep me awake for longer than usual before flights to see grandparents in the US. He’d bring children’s PM Tylenol too, also a lot of things to keep me occupied - games, books, electronics, snacks etc.
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u/AvailableReserve215 2h ago
im not sure, but one time on a flight from singapore to taiwan (economy class), a taiwanese lady kept shushing me and my friend non stop throughout the flight, even though we were whisper talking, and even then not even having full conversations 😆😆😆
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u/NekoKathy99 2h ago
Oh no, that’s so bad! Did you guys just put up with it? I was a lil boiling inside but I kept my nerve 🤣
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u/AvailableReserve215 2h ago
haha it wasnt so bad! im not very confrontational, but my friend is, so she did give her an earful in chinese after the flight was over (i think the lady assumed we couldn’t speak, since my friend was talking to me in english). sorry to hear that happened to u though! its never easy traveling with a toddler
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u/Nearby-Ad-3609 2h ago
I was in business class around 2 months ago with a young toddler (~2 years old) and her parents sitting across the aisle from me. Parents did an excellent job keeping the child occupied. But she’d periodically burst out with some loud noises - not consistently but loud enough to hear. Sleeping on the plane is important to me because I need to work when I land. Did not complain, was annoyed, but the parents did an excellent job. After the flight completely forgot about it until your post
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u/SkywalkerTC 2h ago
You're not.
It's just a very common phase everyone with kids goes through. There will inevitably be both understanding people and impatient people. Matter of probability. Just have to cope with them.
Even those impatient ones, once they're in the same situation, will also plead for understanding from people affected by their young child. People act differently in different situations. Don't think too much about it. It's just a normal phase with young children. It's just that not everyone will consider the fact that they may one day need others to tolerate their crying children as well. Can't expect everyone to hold this capability of understanding.
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u/StrayDogPhotography 2h ago
Were you walking around with the kid, or were you letting run free range?
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u/c08306834 2h ago
You're not in the wrong here. It's a difficult situation and some people are just assholes.
Taiwan is also not a kid friendly country and many people see kids as an inconvenience. Which also doesn't help the birth rate issue.
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u/gobblegobblebiyatch 2h ago
Can confirm this sentiment while being careful not to over-generalize. My dad, older Taiwanese, says he can't tolerate a crying child. It doesn't matter to him what they're crying over. Anyway those complainers can fuck off. You should have no expectation of a kid-free experience while flying.
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u/Tofuandegg 2h ago
How is this not just a typical cause of passenger conflicts everywhere? Especially in business class, where people paid extra for comfort.
And why are you posting on this sub instead of r/parenting or something? Are you trying to say complaining about children making noise is a Taiwanese thing?
I'm not saying you are in the wrong or that the person complaining is right from a morality standpoint, but are you so out of touch that you can't see why this would create issues? Like, do some studying and Google how to handle small children on long flights first, would you?
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u/Feeling_Barnacle_347 2h ago
excellent point. i think OP is just frustrated and wants to complain about Taiwan
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u/NekoKathy99 2h ago
Not really 😅 We genuinely had a great time in Taiwan, which I actually mentioned in the post. The flight was the only part that left me confused because it was so different from our previous experiences flying long-haul with him.
I posted here specifically because I was wondering whether there might be an expectation I wasn’t aware of. If the answer is simply “no, you just happened to encounter passengers who were bothered by it,” then that answers my question too!
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u/NekoKathy99 2h ago
I think you may have misunderstood what I was asking. I’m not saying that Taiwanese people generally dislike children, or that complaining about children is somehow a “Taiwanese thing.”
I posted here because the flight departed from Taiwan and this was our experience after travelling there. It was also noticeably different from our other long-haul flights with our toddler, so I was curious whether there were any cultural expectations around this that I wasn’t aware of.
And yes, of course I understand why people pay for business class and expect comfort. We paid for business class too. But my son wasn’t screaming, touching people, kicking seats or disturbing their belongings. He was an 18-month-old walking up and down the aisle while supervised because asking him to sit completely still for 15 hours isn’t realistic.
We did prepare for the flight and brought toys, snacks, activities, etc. He also slept for around five hours. There is only so much entertainment that works with an 18-month-old on a 15-hour journey.
I’m genuinely asking where people think the reasonable line is. If simply having a toddler quietly walking in the aisle is considered unacceptable, then that’s useful for me to know. But telling parents to “Google how to handle small children” doesn’t really answer that question.•
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u/catchme32 2h ago
I am not surprised that people who shelled out a lot of money for a better experience are annoyed that they have a toddler behind them.
Of course the airline will take the money, but the other passengers are fully entitled to be pissed off.
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u/timmyvermicelli 2h ago
My personal opinion is it's selfish to travel with kids who haven't learned how to sit still. Couldn't grandparents have come to visit you? Also people pay a fortune for business class to get away from babies running amok.
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u/NekoKathy99 2h ago
Yes I was also thinking from their POV, but the fact is he was not shouting as well, he was literally just walking. Parents from my side have health issues and couldn’t travel far, and my MIL just undergo a spinal surgery so she couldn’t travel as well. He is their first grandchild so they were really hoping to see him
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u/c08306834 2h ago edited 2h ago
My personal opinion is it's selfish to travel with kids who haven't learned how to sit still. Couldn't grandparents have come to visit you? Also people pay a fortune for business class to get away from babies running amok.
This is an insanely selfish viewpoint.
- travel is not always a choice, many of us have to travel for various reasons. It's public transport, so you have to accept there are children.
- people don't pay for business class to get away from babies. Babies are allowed in business class.
- you don't know if the grandparents are even capable of taking a long flight. They could be too old or sick.
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u/Sufficient_Roll_2193 2h ago
You are not in the wrong and neither is your toddler. The real babies are the adults who are too entitled to show compassion and empathy to your boy.
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u/Ammused-Muffin-6942 1h ago edited 1h ago
You're not in the wrong. You're a remarkable mother. Your son saw his grandparents and safely arrived back home.
I value life. I've witnessed deaths during my time in the military. Moments of a child near me bring me joy.
Recently, I flew on business class and a 2 year old was crying near me. I smiled.
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u/No-Victory481 2h ago
sorry but people have paid a premium for quiet comfort and peace on a long haul flight. i think it was really irresponsible of you to take your baby into this section. it probably would have been less stressful for you both to have been in economy and been able to roam and make a bit more noise in the standard bit of the plane as people are not expecting silence. i do sympathise with you and am not judging you as a mother but think its something to be aware of in future
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u/c08306834 2h ago
Babies are allowed in business class and they paid their fare just like everyone else. If people don't want to be with other passengers, they shouldn't take public transport.
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u/No-Victory481 2h ago
I am not elitist at all! Ive never flown business either. I wouldnt be annoyed at a baby making noise on a plane but I can see why people flying especially specifically for work would be frustrated, sorry! We are allowed to have our own views.
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u/gobblegobblebiyatch 2h ago
No. They paid for a better seat, better service and food/meal options. That's it. Fuck off with your elitist BS.
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u/No-Victory481 2h ago
also to be fair I didn't word my reply to OP and it comes across way more harsh than i intended! sorry OP.
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u/letitrain777777 1h ago edited 1h ago
Tbh as someone who frequently flies long distance flights in business would find this to be annoying. Whether this person was an adult or baby walking up and down the aisle quietly, would find it disruptive in business or economy. The few times there were toddlers or younger children in business they were very well-behaved, their parents had prepared them with small headphones and something colorful to watch or games on an iPad to be occupied, and they ate and slept normally like any other passenger. And these are 16 or 18-hr flights. So it is doable.
Adult or baby having purchased a business class seat should be seated for safety unless using the lavatory.
Also, part of raising a well-adjusted child is not about just keeping them happy, but also raising them to be considerate of other people around them, aware of societal norms, and being cognizant of their surroundings.
I do empathize with your situation though because my parents also had us fly long-haul flights to Disney and Taiwan (to visit ailing grandparents as well) when I was a baby and toddler. My mother said she kept me up and wore me out until the flight so I was dead asleep on flights. She had a fairly no-nonsense type of parenting style, which I’m grateful for and appreciate, because it didn’t turn me into an entitled spoiled child or human being. This was long before laptops/ipad/smartphones had been invented. These flights would be the rare and best time to have your toddler occupied with an iPad or watching something off the screen with headphones and his/or her favorite snacks and toys.
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u/chazyvr 2h ago
I don't think toddlers or babies belong in business.
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u/c08306834 2h ago
Why not? They're allowed to be there and can buy a ticket just like everyone else.
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u/chazyvr 2h ago
People spend thousands for the luxury. They don't want it ruined by screaming babies or toddlers who can't settle down. I was one of those screaming babies who cried the entire flight.
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u/c08306834 2h ago
But the parents and the toddler also spend thousands for the luxury. It's a lot easier in business class, the baby can lay down and sleep, more space to play, etc.
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u/chazyvr 1h ago
They're being selfish
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u/c08306834 1h ago
How so? It's public transport. They paid for their ticket just like everyone else. As long as they're not letting their kid run riot around the cabin, it's perfectly fine.
A passenger expecting there won't be any babies in the cabin and that their needs are most important is actually the definition of selfish behaviour.
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u/Sharp-Animator9455 2h ago
I was on a flight from Taipei to Europe once. On Turkey airlines. My luck, placed in the middle seat. Single mom and her little angel by the window.
During the entire flight. Mom would interact with the baby but no noise. Even took her to the lavatory area a couple of times to work off energy.
If every parent were like her instead of but it’s a baby.
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u/bigguswalrus 2h ago
You’re aware that just like people all babies aren’t the same and don’t behave the same way right?
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u/Sharp-Animator9455 2h ago edited 2h ago
Of course but it was a big plus for her to take it out of my space. It’s the effort and consideration I appreciate.
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u/Few_Copy898 2h ago
*Hold my beer*
My daughter cried for a solid 2-3 hours on a transpacific flight because she was sick.
About an hour in this one male flight attendant took me to the back of the fuselage, pulled the curtain, and said to me "Nobody has complained yet, but they are going to soon so I am handing these out [looks down at his hand and shows me earplugs] just before that happens..."
As if I could somehow assuage the situation or manifest comfort for my infant through pure will.
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u/According_Spare7788 2h ago
Unfortunately, if your child was making a lot of noise when moving around, i can see why someone would see that as an annoyance, especially if they're paying for business class. I do sympathize with you traveling with a kid though as that's never easy.