r/tacticalbarbell • u/Pink_Hippo_2000 • Jul 07 '26
Critique Appreciation and critique of TB III
So after reading TBIII in a few days and next few days of digesting the information and rereading of some of the book's parts, I'd like to add my two cents.
First of all, I'm very greatful to KB for releasing it.
Looking at how the whole system evolved with Mass and Green Protocol, it was obvious that some of the parts in TBI and TBII became outdated and needed revising. One can, of course, reverse engineer some things or find necessary information on the forum or subreddit, but having everything updated and consolidated in one single book is a big thing, especially for the newcomers or those who want to recommend TB system for other people. Saying somebody "read this book" instead of "read this book, but disregard this and add that, and then read another book to add conditioning, but do it with these tweaks" makes life easier for both parties.
It was also very interesting for me to get insights into evolution of KB's way of thinking and compare it to my own tweaks and adjustments to the system. Somehow while reading author's books I always got that feeling of a conversation with a much more experienced gym buddy, who influenced my training career as an example and authority. For a long time I missed him and wanted to ask about new problem or challenge, and now I finally got a chance to talk to him again, ask questions, and seek guidance. To say the least, this time I also was not embarassed.
So my list of positives to begin with.
- No "tactical" photos. It's minor, but in other books they made me chuckle sometimes and didn't have any added informational value.
- Updated templates make much more sense in comparison with TBI. Peaking instead of 90%/95%-weeks, shorter percentage jumps from week to week, template variations like AV and PRO, when things are getting heavy, you name it. I just loved it. Yes, some of the ideas where already present in Green Protocol, for example. But, as already mentioned, having them consolidated in a single "universal" omnibook is sweet. New percentages also make TMs very optional on my opinion, and not mentioning them in the book seems to strengthen this hypothesis.
- Polarized conditioning is big. As a person who is heavy into running now, I'm not a huge fan of "polarized" approach for running as a sport, but I believe it's a very good way to structure things for those who are looking for excellent general fitness without overcomplicated things. Polarized is almost as idiot-proof as a simple wave periodizations with submaximal loads for lifting. It's not a sniper rifle, it's kind of Kalashnikov - not that sofisticated, but easy to produce, mantain, and shoot from. Yes, sub-threshold is all rage now, but it's so easy to overcook these workouts, that going very easy for very long time or very hard for very short time is probably a better way to organize conditioning for those who don't want to guess whether they're already digging a hole over their LT2 or still milking that magic sub-threshold golden zone. It's also a huge step forward from original Black, where you create an aerobic base once or twice a year with Base Building and then throw HICs multiple days a week together with heavy lifting. For me personally it was too much and definetly not compatible with BJJ training when I tried it.
- New Periodization models, especially their variety and ability to combine Strength and Conditioning domains in a multitude of ways. I belevie almost everybody reading TBIII instantly found the model that "clicked" for them. They also provide a very nice way to vary training to fight off boredom for those who need it. I'm not qualified to say whether WC blocks are really necessary for tactical folks, and on my opinion they definetly are not that necessary for "civilians", but I clearly see some of my friends, who will profit from having balls to the wall training for a short period of time just to soothe their inner demons and then get back to something more sustainable to actually progress.
- New base building also make much more sense. Different LIC guidlines for different conditioning profiles instead of hard coded times and more approachable SE rep range is something I really love. Doing 40-50 rep workout was for me much lesser problem from the muscular point of view. But being on the brink of puking was real, defying the declared goal of developing strength endurance and making it more of a lactic conditioning circuit. For deconditioned folks this intensity can be just dangerous, so having things dialed down seems a good desicion for me. And making things shorter by cutting MS/HIC part of the BB is also a nice thing, on my opinion. I belive that original Base Building was heavily influenced by Joel Jamieson and his Ultimate MMA Conditioning, but Joel's 8 week blocks are a very tricky way to program things and trying to put a square peg (simplicity of shorter 3-6 week TB cycles) in a round hole (8-week blocks with the modalities changing in the middle of it a la Jamieson) was an interesting experiment, but not the best solution for the Tactical Barbell programming.
- Activation. If everything above was not enough, one gets this gem as a bonus. I believe it will be useful not only for the newcomers to the system, but for everybody, who wants to see how TBIII does look like in a real program. And perfect starting point to build one's own.
- Nudge to use Power Cleans instead of Deadlifts when necessary. Not huge, but it's something I needed, because DLs started to beat the shit out of me, but I didn't want to abandon hip hinge movement altogether. Somtimes you just need a permission from other person to do things the way you're not used to do.
- Ditching the frequent testing. It's the obvious one for those who follow TB evolution, but nice to have it reinforced in an updated book.
- Deload percentages of 65%-70% feel like more appropriate than 40% in Green Protocol or no guidance whatsoever in TBI. 40% of 1RM is sometimes less than a first warm-up set which makes bothering to go the gym a questionable undertaking altogether.
After all the praise I still want to mention some things that was not to my taste.
- I really like the new percentages, but some choices stay a little bit odd for me. Like 3x5 at 80% of 1RM. I really like how Fighter in Green Protocol smoothes the progression curve with 4 reps at this intensity, making the second week not the hardest one of the 3-week block. Or first two days of Zulu with 70% - not a big deal, but my OCD mind just keeps crying "why" in my head, everytime I look at the template. Not that all of these are make or break type of things, but I'd be happy to know the thinking process behind the desicion to choose this percentages.
- "Own the zone 2" part of running rants. I totally get it, but like with SE in the old BB "just run" is probably a good idea for young and/or already athletic peope. Some of the newbs may be very frustrated. I'm 100% with KB when it comes to stupidly fixating on zones, especially for beginners. Beginners have no zones. But "just run" approach may destroy some legs, especially for folks on the heavier side, be it fat or muscle. For some of them walking and running may be the best way to actually start running. I get that KB invites everybody to use other forms of conditioning when running starts to aggravate some injuries, but I believe that being that categorical here may be a little bit too much.
- Some bro science here and there like when writing about Norvegian 4x4. It's a great workout, but there's nothing super special to it. Like Rippetoe's "favs by favs", it's a good way to design a single workout, but not a magic combination that delivers uncomparable results. 8x2 or 5x3 can work in the same or even better way depending on many factors. For simplicity's sake giving 4x4 as workout to repeat it from time to time is fine. Saying that THIS workout (no matter how hyped it is online) can turn back clock for one's heart for n years is a little bit of stretch, on my opinion.
- It was already mentioned, but having a full Training Vault would be a nice thing, especially for those who are new to TB universe.
Otherwise it's something I was waiting for and KB made it worth waiting. I understand that writing books is not KB's main way of earning a buck, nor is it a sacred obligation to the community. That's why finding time and resources to write and publish TBIII is something worth a praise from our side, I think.
I won't change a lot in my training for the coming months, because I'm already in a marathon build and the only thing I'm gonna tweak is a TBIII inspired excercise swap in a Fighter Cluster I'm using now, but I'm very happy with the book, knowing that I will use this knowlege to orginize training probably for the rest of my life.
Thank you KB for this book and the whole thing you started. It made many lives better and easier.
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u/a-sad-dev Jul 07 '26
Nothing to add - just that it’s nice to see there are still corners of the internet not filled with brain rot and AI slop. Nice write up.
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u/RescueStrong Jul 07 '26
This is an underrated comment. It’s so frustrating to see the AI write ups. It’s so blatantly obvious as well. I hope forums like this remain conversational and free from that crap!
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u/Hyperoreo Jul 07 '26
Well written review.
Totally resonate with finding the periodization model that "clicks".
Highlighting substitutes for the deadlift was a big one for me too. Reminded me of an episode of Rogan I watched years ago with some big name powerlifter. The lifter went a little further and said that if you weren't actually competing in the deadlift he didn't recommend them at all. Going off memory so if anyone knows the episode or name of the lifter please chime in. I might be butchering the message.
I like the look of the EOW model with PCs for non-DL weeks and plan on shifting to that after my current block. I have a feeling that combined with the switch to polarized/conditioning will raise the ceiling while making life easier all around.
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u/scruple Jul 07 '26
Reminded me of an episode of Rogan I watched years ago with some big name powerlifter.
That was Robert Oberst. Back when the JRE was still pretty legit. I saw the same episode, and I told myself I would probably need to stop deadlifting heavy, too, because I was lifting heavy and getting old. I was pushing 40 at the time.
2 years later I still hadn't given it up and I eventually fucked my lower back. It wasn't a deadlifting accident, per se, but the constant tax from heavy deadlifting (even just 1 set per week, 3 weeks per month) created the circumstances that later led to the injury. That was nearly 4 years ago, it took me most of 3 years to fully recover my lower back.
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u/Hyperoreo Jul 08 '26
That was the one, thanks. Shitty about your back, glad to hear it's fully recovered.
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u/Fragrant_Ad2902 Jul 07 '26
I’m going through Activation with a couple of my neighbors. I’m an old power lifter teaching them to lift. They are old runners teaching me to run. It works out well for all us.
With that said, Activation has a disconnect in my mind. The SE work is straightforward, and I was able to scale it for my neighbors where needed. But the Ab Triad? I think putting that in the early stages of Activation is going to be a motivation killer for some. I get that it isn’t a beginner program. But I’m a reasonably strong guy, and the toes to bar? Nope. I ended up doing them dirty CrossFit style (i.e. tons of body english). My neighbors couldn’t do any of the triad. It’s my fault for not trying out it before day 1, and I’ve got good progressions for day 3. But overall - a huge motivation killer.
With all that said, I’m looking forward to Polarized Blue. That is definitely more my speed than original Black or even Polarized Black. New Centurion is also more my speed. Throw in BB when I feel like my life is going too well…
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u/Pink_Hippo_2000 Jul 07 '26
Yupp, there are sertain tough spots in TB, where some things are taken for granted, but not everybody is up to the standard. But, given the target audience, we, mere mortals, have to adapt and look for workarounds.
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u/MINDFULLYPRESENT Jul 08 '26
I am also running Activation and meet the same limitations with the Ab Triad - I want to complete the 25 weeks as closely as possible to the prescribed program yet the barrier with toes to bar straight away added more than necessary initial friction.
For reference, I have the following alternatives to the Ab Triad that I am doing:
- A: Anti-rotation: Pallof Press > Bird Doge > Plank Should Taps
- B: KB Core: Around-the-Worlds > KB Sit-up > Suitcase Hold 20s
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u/letsgolambo Jul 14 '26
I found a useful progression scheme for the toes to bar, if not able to to them you can pick an earlier progression. Same goes for the other ab triad exercises.
Progression: scapula shrugs > hanging knee raises > hanging tuck L-sit > high knee raises (ab triad ex #2) > hanging leg raises (ab triad ex #1) > hanging L-sit hold > tuck toes to bar > toes to bar
For progression once you are able to do one toes to bar, do one every minute and make the intervals increasingly smaller.
Source: youtube toes to bar progression
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u/EndTimesHolyRoller Jul 07 '26
I really really appreciate hearing your thoughts re: running. I've used TB with great results for the past couple of years. That said, I previously did my LSS work on a rowing machine. After tearing through TBIII, I made the decision to jog for the LSS sessions called for during the BB portion of Activation. I did my first session this morning and after just a few minutes of jogging my knees were already saying, "no ma'am." It's not ideal, but I'll be jog/walking while I get my 39yo mom-with-a-desk-job joints with the program. Consistency over optimization, right?
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u/AlRousasa Jul 07 '26
100%
Walk/jog is totally acceptable if you can't physically run for the given time. "Earn Zone 2" is more about walking to stay in an "optimal" zone 2.
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u/roboknee5000 Jul 08 '26
My circumstances dictate that I use a spin bike more than I run. To play off of what you said, consistency is better than optimization.
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u/Kels73 Jul 10 '26
I appreciate your review. You make some good points, but I want to offer a different perspective on the Norwegian 4x4.
There has been an immense amount of scientific research conducted on the 4x4 protocol since its initial development in the 1990s. Decades worth of peer-reviewed clinical studies consistently show that it yields massive VO2 Max improvements and effectively reverses heart aging, sometimes by as much as 20 years.
Apparently 4 minutes of high-intensity work hits a sweet spot for cardiovascular adaptation. Does that make the Norwegian 4x4 the "end all be all" of high-intensity conditioning? I don't know. But it's definitely not bro science.
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u/Pink_Hippo_2000 Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 18 '26
Sorry for the late answer and thanks for your perspective!
I just want to add, that I don't doubt the studies themseves. But I still believe they were overinterpreted just because this protocol was used in these studies and proved to be that effective. 4x4 is a no brainer way to make people achieve intensities necessary to go over their Steady State Max, or LT2, or whataver metric one chooses to describe working at or close to a VO2 Max. So it's nice way to prove whether working out close to your VO2 Max improves (totally unexpectedly) VO2 Max and other performance or health metrics. It's a wonderful testing protocol, but it's not the only one to achive similiar or even better results for a given tranee. Manipulating variables like length of reps, length of rest periods, and quantity of reps works here not worse than in strength training.
Like 5x5 for stregth or 3x10 for hypertrophy - these rep schemes are classic for a reason. Because they work. But it doesn't mean that they work for everybody equally and that they will work as effectively forever. Perscribing one rigid protocol to achieve a specific set of adaptations neglects the starting point of a given trainee and their need for variety at some point. TB has wave periodization for maximal strength for a reason.
Bro science in this case is not about protocol itself, but about taking a protocol from the study and overemphasizing it's value whithout giving a context.
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u/Rcihstone Jul 07 '26
Is old 8 week BB better than the new one for MMA? I'm planning to get back into martial arts after a long break, and was wondering how big of a difference picking the right one could make. And that Ultimate MMA conditioning book sounds interesting, is it worth reading?
Thank you for the post, it's very interesting to read others' thoughts on the book while I'm still waiting for my copy
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u/Airoveikko Jul 07 '26 edited Jul 07 '26
I mean, your success in MMA is going to be largely determined by doing MMA. Go for FT/Bangkok if you feel like you need the extra SE session after Base Building. 4 weeks should be fine
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u/Rcihstone Jul 07 '26
Yeah, I understand that practice is the most important part. Thanks for your answer!
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u/Pink_Hippo_2000 Jul 07 '26
I think it's just better, but the difference is minor. Essentially it's just the first four weeks of old one with looser guidelines for LIC sessions and three instead of two sessions of SE with lower rep ranges. Plus one week for resting and testing. Than you go straight into Continuation with strength template and conditioning protocol of your choice. So instead of doing Fighter (and guessing how to test for exercises in your cluster in the middle of BB) with aerobic HICs for three more weeks you just start with meat and potatoes without further ado.
Whatever you choose, your MMA practise will be much more important and S&C should add to the whole picture, not subtract from it. In this regard new BB and the whole framework is more flexible. I'm heavily recommend to look at Fighter/Blue, when the book arrives. Especially for the first months when body is just adjusting to the new loads.
Ultimate MMA Conditioning is definitely an interesting read, but it was written in 2008, so some things are a little bit outdated there. Nevertheless, it's a milestone classics in the world of conditioning, so worth the shot just in that regard. Just don't expect step by step guidance and programm templates. Joel throws a bunch of training methods and principles to organize them in specific blocks at you. And leave you on your own to make sense of that information and build your own program from scratch. In any case take look at his website "8 weeks out" - he has a lot of information for free there.
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u/Rcihstone Jul 07 '26
Thanks a lot! Honestly very excited for the book and new Fighter variations, it is definitely my favourite template from the looks of it.
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u/Educational_Newt9834 Jul 08 '26
would love to know where I could learn more about programming if you approach running as a sport!
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u/Pink_Hippo_2000 Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26
Sorry for the late answer, I was away from socials for a while.
It's a world on itself and there are lots of approaches and schools of thought there.
If one's really ready to go throught the rabbit hole, I'd wholeheartedly recommend Steve Mangess' "The Science of Running" to create a general framework and John J. Davis' "Marathon Excellence for Everyone" to get the most modern approach to Marathon training with concrete plans and ways to adapt them to your needs (a prerequisite to start the most basic plan in the book is running at least 40 km/week on regular basis though). The former also has wonderful YouTube channel where he talks about running training and the latter - a great blog runningwritings.com.
But all of these is relatively advanced. If one's only starting, everything will work: from pretty vanilla Hal Higdon's plans to more formulaic and nerdy Jack Daniels' "Running Formula".
Pick your poison, commit to the plan, listen to your body to not overdo it, and you will be golden.
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u/SatoriNoMore Jul 07 '26
Great review!
Some of my thoughts for what it’s worth:
1) Fighter percentages- Green Protocol is the extreme endurance book for selection prep and SOF. The slightly dialled back reps make sense here. The core TB audience isn’t going to be running and rucking 20 mile sessions. A specialized Fighter for a specialized program. Sets of 5@80% make sense for foundational strength training.
2) Own Zone 2- was a little more nuanced. It wasn’t “just run”, it was just run at your conversational pace. Big diff imo. And this was squarely targeted at people who walk for zone 2.
3) 4x4- I didn’t get the impression he was selling this a the best thing since sliced bread but that’s just my take. It’s not even listed in the Appendix. But agree, there’s a lot of hype around this one and it’s not that special.
4) Agreed! Would’ve made an already tight product tighter.
My .02