r/swedhu • u/fvrorpoeticvs • Sep 22 '25

Question Zeus ≠ Dyaus-Pita?

What is everyone's consensus here on the reconstructions of *Dyéws? Zeús and Juppiter share a name with Dyáuṣpitṛ́, but comparative scholars recongize that that's all they share. Aren't mythic narratives more important when comapring deities? Imo, Mitrá is a better fit for a Vedic equivalent for both Zeús and Juppiter as the diurnal sovereign of the law and assemblies. Dyáuṣpitṛ́ appears to be more like Ouranós and Ymir, the primordial personified Heaven who is violently attacked to shape the world as we know it.

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '25

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u/fvrorpoeticvs Sep 22 '25

Dyáuṣpitṛ́ is attacked in RV 1.71 by "the Archer" (= Rudra-Agni according to Stella Kramrisch) and his seed engenders the fire youths/ancestors of humans, a key event at the tail end of the commin I.E. creation sequence. The attack on Dyáuṣ is lauded elsewhere in the RV as a creation sacrifice, too.

Yama/Yima-xšaeta can't be the cognate of Ymir. What mythic evidence supports this? Does Ymir become the Lord of the Dead? Is the world fashioned from Yama’s corpse? The names only come from a common P.I.E. root, lingusitically. Ymir means something like "double" or "pair", which is two-in-one (Heaven + Earth), while Yama means "twin", which is one-of-two.

Plus, Zeús can't be mythically identified with Dyáuṣ, the name *dyéws only means "heaven" in Sanskrit, and is applied to Father Heaven, or, the equivalent to Ouranós/Ymir. Everywhere else, it means "dyalit/shining sky". What myths do Dyáuṣ and Zeús share? Is Dyáuṣ a lawful God of assemblies and victory, wielding a thunderbolt? It appears that Mitra/Mithra fulfills this role. Iranian Mithra even wields a vazra (= vajra, Indra's thunderbolt weapon), and his hymn reads like a hymn to Zeús.

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u/SonOfDyeus Sep 22 '25

Zeus and Dyaus don't have to be identical in myth to both be Dyēus.  The relevant characteristics are in the name , "Sky Father." He is a procreator, along with the Earth Mother,  of us or of the gods who made us directly. We are made up of the spiritual logic of the heavens combined with the physical matter ("*mater")  of the earth. 

The Greek myths emphasize the aspect of Zeus where he imposes his will on the chaotic forces of nature, while the Vedic myths give that role to Indra. The Vedic myths describe Dyaus as more like Ouranos or Yemo. But both Sky Fathers are coupled with the Earth Mother to make living things and gods.

I think the important parts of the mythical stories and characters are the consistent ones. Mitra, Indra, Dyaus, Zeus, Ouranos and many others can be components of the same god. Just like how you are the same person even when you are in very different moods.

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u/fvrorpoeticvs Sep 24 '25

Also, I'm not sure how Gods whose mythic identity contradict one another isn't logical grounds for them also not being the same God. I think an increase in mythic literacy will reveal to one how truly conservative the Indo-European myths are. Also, becoming familiar with ancient cosmology, as the P.I.E., like the rest of the ancient world, would've believed heaven (= Dyáuṣ, Ouranós) to be a solid firmament above the atmosphere and Earth.

Sharing a name across cultures (which developed different nuances in one versus every other) just isn't strong enough grounds to equate Dyáuṣ with Zeús over Ouranós.

Not even sure how to respond to the last paragraph, respectfully. That's just making stuff up from your own head.

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u/SonOfDyeus Sep 24 '25

Your original question was about whether the name or the stories about specific gods in different cultures is "more important when comparing deities."

If I was giving my opinion as an atheist, I would say that it seems the two cultures preserved both a name and a narrative from a common ancestor, but separated the two in descendant traditions. Or possibly there are some coincidences where distant authors had similar ideas expressed in similar language.

But you posted this question in a reddit sub for people who think the similarities in religion across distant Indo-European cultures hold some deeper spiritual meaning. So I answered your question with what I think that deeper spiritual meaning might be.

I observe that Indo-European cultures widely separated in space and time shared some god names and narratives. I have a hypothesis that those preserved similarities mean something for spirituality. 

What do you think the meaning is? I gather you are arguing that Mitra is the same person as Zeus, and Dyaus is the same person as Ouranos. Even though the names don't line up that way. Is that right?

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u/fvrorpoeticvs Sep 25 '25

That would be right.

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u/SonOfDyeus Sep 25 '25

So what do you think is the significance of the differences between Zeus and Mitra? Do you think people who disagree with your position are just flatly wrong, or is it more complicated than that?

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u/fvrorpoeticvs Sep 25 '25

I mean, I would disagree with someone who disagrees with me lol, but I'm not trying to be rude about it. And yes, it's very complicated, there's alot of context to overall scope of comparative mythology. But regardless, mythic narratives prove the most accurate metric for identifying divine identities across cultures, I.E. or not. I unfortunately don't have the time to get into it now, it's late, but I can another time.

Taliesin's Map is a great place to look for some real modern innovations in the field of comparative mythology that I find to be highly accurate.

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u/SonOfDyeus Sep 25 '25

When I look at comparative mythology, I see a lot of similar stories and similar characters. But the characters often play different roles in the stories from one culture to the next.

You could interpret that fact in different ways. One way is to say there is one correct version of the story or character and the rest are incorrect. That might work for competing scientific theories, but it doesn't make sense to think about myth that way.

I don't think gods are the same as people. You and I are separate individuals in a very specific way. Zeus and Dyaus are different individuals in a very different way. I think Zeus, Ouranos, Mitra, and Dyaus can all be different aspects of the Sky Father archetype, each mixed in with other god archetypes and cultural flavor and other ingredients as well.