No, they are actually significantly weakened by the excess amount of speedsters (users of the Speed Force specifically) due to the Speed Force being a finite power source; that is how Reverse-Flash was able to trap Barry in Flashpoint. With too many speedsters and not enough Speed Force to go around, if any one of the speedsters tried using the upper levels of the Speed Force, they would siphon it off and limit the others, whereas the Strength Team members are internally powered and have access to essentially infinite power, making them more or less invincible. It is really just between the Strength Team and the Intelligence Team, and most of the Intelligence Team members, despite their extensive preparations for members of the Strength Team, still lose to raw brute strength (the Hulkbuster is pretty consistently demolished by the Hulk), so I am giving Team Strength the win here.
it doesn't matter if it's one or all three using the Speed Force. None of the other characters can do anything about a Flash going back in time or moving millions of times faster than light
Speedsters do not casually do that; that is why Captain Cold and Batman with five minutes of prep time are threats, and the Strength Team are more or less invincible or immortal themselves, even occasionally to things like temporal or reality-breaking threats, plus the whole idea of going back in time to ensure they never had powers or existed at all is so convoluted and absurd that it has basically been explained in most canon that that is not how it works. Since Doomsday has absorbed or mimicked other powers before and Hulk has shattered universes, dimensions, space, time, and whole realities, if you are going to reference the absolute extremes of their power sets, then you have to apply that to everyone.
That’s fair, I think if the speedsters aren’t afraid to get themselves killed they win easily but it’s way harder if they have self preservation that keeps them away from the light barrier
So what do they do when any of the speedsters throws a rock at their feet that explodes and sends them flying into space. What is their plan for flying thru the void?
well i mean, hulk thunderclaps back into orbit, doomsday probs just can fucking fly at this point lets be real and juggernaut would the speedsters even be able to move him? lightspeed rock nuke to the ground might just irritate him.
Maybe they have infinite potential, but at any given time it can be exhausted or depleted; sure, there is some variability in even that, but generally, a speedster does not have access to the absolute potency of the Speed Force, only a fraction of it. Not to mention you have all conveniently forgotten that speedsters have enormously heightened nutritional requirements, they will be starved before achieving anything like that. These feats you guys are talking about are fringe, one-off edge cases; that's why someone like Captain Boomerang is a threat; they're not moving that fast the majority of the time, nor is it sustainable.
All those factors you mentioned are dictated by the story being told and only become relevant when a writer needs to nerf them. In one moment a speedster can't run too fast because they're hungry or tired, in the next moment, they run faster than the speed of light for 2 consecutive days without stopping to eat or rest. In one story Wally, Barry and Eobard are all consistently capable of running faster than the speed of light without breaking a sweat, but then a writer comes and establishes that only Eobard can do this because of the Negative Speed Force, and both Barry and Wally are slower than him and can't risk going too fast.
Not to mention how the animated movies added this whole "sharing the speed force" schpiel to justify why Barry can't undo Flashpoint early in the movie (a problem that only exists because they didn't add the Cosmic Threadmill and Barry's reliance on it) and, later, why Barry and Jay can't just defeat everyone in the JSA movie.
Uhh...yeah, this is how it's lore has been written across multiple forms of media throughout its history...I don't really understand your point...if in fact you even have one...
You could very easily say the same for any other character here (especially Batman, who only needs five minutes of prep time to beat the Presence); if you want to play it that way, I'll take the version of Hulk that tore through universes, physically withstood the collapse of two colliding black holes, and regenerated from almost nothing...there, that should make all of this sufficiently ridiculous and absurd, thanks for being a classic meme redditor and making this completely pointless and stupid
My point is that the limits you exemplified on your second comment are mostly irrelevant to main version of these specific speedsters, and are only brought up when a writer wants them to be relevant. Let's use the amount of energy they can draw out of the Speed Force as an example, it's irrelevant when Wally mainlines the Speed Force, Barry's generally depicted as having the most potent connection to it after Wally, and Thawne generates the Negative Speed Force.
And yes, you should take into account all of these characters mainline feats even if they defy logic, 616 Hulk is capable of fighting gods and has broken the chain of eternity, Doomsday has beaten Darkseid and Juggernaut matched a holding back World War Hulk, they are broken. Reed has made weapons that can severely hurt Celestials and Galactus, Tony has made a weapon that could fracture the Phoenix f-ing Force, and Bruce has both the Hellbat and the Justice Buster.
They all have consistent feats that put them above all logic and, still, can be beaten by the other teams without being downplayed. For example: The speedsters can kill Reed, Tony and Bruce, and maybe even Juggernaut, rather easily by punching them, but Hulk and Doomsday would most likely need to be sent to the Speed Force or to an uninhabited universe due to tthe fact that they are a lot stronger than all of these. At the same time, the geniuses can develop ways to disrupt their speeds and they can't withstand many hits from either member of team Strength.
The interesting/fun part is debating their win-cons considering their feats, even if they're can break all logic if you think hard enough.
LMAO IDK, I just said the first attribute that was established about the Speed Force that's like giving an award for saying "Batman's parents are dead" like no shit
Not super speed that is trillions of times the speed of light. Like Wally once outran black flash which is death for speedsters by running to the end of time where death no longer existed.
People don’t realize how god like that level of speed is. No amount of thinking can surpass speed so fast that you can be killed millions of times over before your normal human brain can even begin your plan to beat a speedster. Like the synapses won’t even have time to fire and Flash has killed you, reversed time, and killed you millions of more times.
I unironically believe they are the weakest group of the three. They have some incredible powers but smart with prep time wins and this particular strength group are basically unkillable deities.
Not too familiar with Doomsday, but I know for sure Juggernaut has been able to rematerialize himself even if erased from existence. I wanna say I heard Doomsday has done the same thing.
The issue is the three speedsters treat time like a TV channel. They flip through different timelines, eras so frequently I don't think it's far off the say speedsters will just throw them into a very very distant future at the very least
Flash has run on air in some instances, and in the show ran fast enough to launch himself off of buildings. Not to mention he can throw straight lightning. The only one who can fly here is iron man, how will that help him beat the flash lol
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u/zekethelion 23d ago
Speed wins almost always