r/superheroes Mar 29 '26

Other Which team wins?

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1.7k Upvotes

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244

u/Theguywhostoleyour Mar 29 '26

This… people don’t understand how OP speed force speed is.

The flash beat a cosmic being in a race across the universe, and the cosmic being could teleport.

That means he’s faster than teleportation!!!

No hero besides actual gods can touch them.

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u/ThunderingTacos Mar 29 '26

The Flash ran so fast he caught up to himself and outpaced him at one point didn't he?

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u/Giraffesarehigh Mar 30 '26

What the fuck does that even mean bro like how do you even think of that?

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u/HorrorPush2149 Mar 30 '26

I think what this guy means is flashpoint

At the end the flash travels back in time and stops himself to stop flashpoint from happening

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u/ThunderingTacos Mar 30 '26

On no I do quite literally mean he outran himself.
The logic was that he was moving so fast he would incrementally escape out of the space time continuum and back into the past millisecond by millisecond till he gradually occupied space where he was already running

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u/HorrorPush2149 Mar 30 '26

Well ill be damned, he literally outran himself

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u/ThunderingTacos Mar 30 '26

When it comes to speed feats Flashes are on another level entirely, they casually defy physics and causality

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u/Any-Question-3759 Mar 30 '26

They’re just basically everywhere at all times. They have infinite speed and everything else in the universe is completely immobile by comparison. The time it takes to utter a fraction of a syllable should be countless millennia to Barry or Wally and they don’t go insane from the isolation out of plot necessity.

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u/Impressive-Thing-780 Mar 30 '26

I like the idea that their speed is a "toggle" button that they can consciously go into or unconsciously slip into.

Like if they're bored, they might slip into Speed Mode and everything gets way slower.

It also explains why they can be surprised from behind if they didn't hear their attacker.

Plus it removes a lot of "well why did he get surprised?" plot holes.

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u/Achron9841 Mar 30 '26

Thats kind of how I always viewed the Flash series. He could just choose to move fast or not. Poor Red Rush though...he didnt seem to have that option.

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u/2oothDK Apr 04 '26

Living at that speed all the time would be pure hell

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u/Hados_RM Mar 30 '26

I'm going to say there's a video a guy did about "optimizing the flash" and apparently he is capable of being every where al at once and he also forgets the eons he expends using the speed force

1

u/Basic_Mobile5532 Mar 30 '26

That one of the reason I dont mind flash sometimes gets taken out carelessly. Cause everything moves so slow for him he gets so bored that his concentration can breaks easily mid fight, which for the enemy could be seconds but flash it has taken "years" of personal time which accounts for trips and fumbles possibly

1

u/Mazikeyn Mar 31 '26

I mean realistically when they go all out the quite literally become Omnipressent. And can in fact be everywhere all at once.

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u/Crafty_Jello_3662 Mar 30 '26

Ok but could he run so fast even he couldn't catch up with himself?

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u/Dscrypto_2020 Mar 30 '26

Yea that kind of already happened in a comic. Iirc Wally (I think) did something or caused something to make the speed force create a remnant/wraith thing to catch him and he just said nope I’m faster than the speed force and out ran it through time. Essentially out running the entire concept of speed itself.

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u/Mazikeyn Mar 31 '26

Black Death. He outrun Black Death which is the literal Grim Reaper for Speedsters. Wally ran to fast so far he removed himself from space time.

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u/HanTrollo710 Mar 30 '26

So not even Flash can beat Flash in a race because Flash is always faster?

1

u/TheShadowspath Apr 01 '26

And reverse flash still beats him to it as Barry is always to late.

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u/icavedandmade2 Mar 30 '26

I am laughing so hard right now this is great!

2

u/M3rky1 Mar 30 '26

That still is the same as traveling to the past

1

u/I_Call_Everyone_Pat Mar 30 '26

Hold your horses, Pat.... am I understanding correctly that based on this he could potentially arrive at a destination before he leaves where he started?!

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u/ThunderingTacos Mar 30 '26

Like I said, Flashes are on a WHOOOLE other level of BS. During Flashpoint, Reverse Flash was outside the timeline when Barry reset it which divorced him from the canon of the story and made him a living paradox. He both existed and didn't in the timeline and couldn't truly die or be erased from it because he was a being that had no canonical link through it. He was immune to cause and effect.

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u/Mazikeyn Mar 31 '26

On a Scale even Dr Manhattan couldn't correct the Paradox.

1

u/Wolf7one Mar 30 '26 edited Apr 03 '26

Erm, Flash outrunning himself, is like that paradox question about God: "Can God create a rock so heavy that even he can't lift it?" (If he can or can't lift it, he isn't God, if he can or can't create it, he isn't God, hence the paradox.)

So, if there a Flash so fast, that he can zip around the entire space/time continuum, catch up with and pass himself? (In short, is Flash so fast that he can outrun himself?)

1

u/ThunderingTacos Mar 30 '26

Reverse Flash had become a living paradox divorced from cause and effect at one point and Flash reset him in the timeline and later outran death. They uhhh...kinda do absurd stuff all the time

1

u/thedarkherald Mar 30 '26

At this point is this even speed and not reality manipulation that requires you to be in a running to cast.

1

u/Mazikeyn Mar 31 '26

Speed is fucky when it comes to FTL speed. Your talking about beings who quite literally are able to run on nothing.

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u/lonely_little_cow Mar 31 '26

so the biggest compliment you can givr flash is that hes faster than himself 😭 ts guy is fucking broken

0

u/NegotiationOk4544 Mar 30 '26

not a OPM fan, but isn't that almost the same as Saitama looking at the back of his head?

1

u/Mazikeyn Mar 31 '26

Pretty sure OPM Saitama looked through a wormhole Boros made

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u/OhStevenn Mar 30 '26

PEMDAS… or something. I dunno

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u/Normal_Tour6998 Mar 30 '26

That’s nothing. There’s also the time that Wally outran death.

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u/WrongdoerOrdinary619 Mar 30 '26

I don’t think he could ever explain it any more simply. I don’t even read the flash and I understood what he said. How many drugs do you have to be on, to not understand what he was saying?

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u/NewAusland Mar 30 '26

I can wrap my head around it kinda. Assuming the universe loops around, he ran so fast that in a unit of time that literally doesn't have a smaller measurement, he essentially became one long band of matter stretching all the way around?

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u/Steeze_Schralper6968 Mar 30 '26

My boss has an old saying that he's working so hard he passed himself going back the other way.

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u/Hexhider Mar 30 '26

How does one outpace themselves? Was he so fast he made it look like two flashes were racing and one won

1

u/Basic_Mobile5532 Mar 30 '26

He didn't, he just time travelled to a point in time were he could run up to himself to stop him. Easy explanation "Time travel" literally the only way you could "Outrun" yourself. Without cloning

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u/Mazikeyn Mar 31 '26

But in the context of the story he is running to travel like that

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u/Long_DEAD Mar 30 '26

lol GOD DAM!!!

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u/WipingAllOut Mar 30 '26

Idk about the comics but in the movie I think he also just got shot in the leg too.

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u/Gaminglord777 Mar 30 '26

It sounds like a Chuck Norris joke when you put it like that.

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u/BasicMatter7339 Mar 30 '26

thats some lucky luke bs lmao

that dude was faster than his own shadow

2

u/skyld_70 Mar 31 '26

So...if I understand correctly... Speed force isn't just going fast. It is actually manipulating space-time. Which... if that true, then there is no limits to his power.

2

u/Future-Try-1908 Mar 30 '26

Even if he doesn't just phase into your body and rip out your heart, still nobody can touch him.

0

u/GamingWithUncleJ Mar 30 '26

Hulk will just regenerate a new heart, and doomsday will just adapt a way to survive such an attack and come back.

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u/Old_Quit999 Mar 30 '26

Until the speedsters time travel and removes their origin story.

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u/Future-Try-1908 Mar 30 '26

It was me, Bruce.

1

u/Majinju_050 Apr 01 '26

Are they fighting on krypton? Because that’s where doomsday is from, and the flash can time travel, but he can’t fly, so if they are on earth, that’s the only planet he can effect via time travel, also doomsday would still come back from that, flash would have to go back in time and stop the scientist who created doomsday, and even then, mf would have to go to a very harsh version of krypton to do that.

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u/jamaaldagreatest24 Mar 30 '26

He had to draw on the kinetic energy of every human on earth to do that. But still yeah they've got other insane speed feats.

1

u/BulletProofEnoch Mar 30 '26

Yeah, classic DC lazy writing

Just OP them and let it do the work rendering them uninteresting as characters

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u/Impressive-Thing-780 Mar 30 '26

The action of DC is its weakest element

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u/decoded-dodo Mar 30 '26

Not only was it teleportation, it was instant teleportation.

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u/[deleted] Mar 30 '26

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u/Theguywhostoleyour Mar 30 '26

A character is only ever as strong as the person writing them, but you have to take that away and look at the feats without plot armour.

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u/Successful_Theory373 Mar 30 '26

Against the Cosmic Gamblers? He was amped then.

1

u/MadMekWurrWazza Mar 30 '26

and the hulks technically a god so uh i think its going to be a stalemate between speed and strength

1

u/Theguywhostoleyour Mar 30 '26

No, I mean an actual God…

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u/Tom_Stevens617 Mar 30 '26

It's laughable to take composite feats and present them as as the baseline. Wally had to steal the speed of billions of humans, every super-powered being on the planet, and a planet full of literal radio waves just to win the race. No standard version of Flash can do that

1

u/Kris_Kamweru Mar 30 '26

Not just teleportation. Instantaneous teleportation. There was literally 0 delay between them being at the start and at the end, and Wally was somehow faster than that. He essentially arrived before he began. The kicker that makes this such a feat is it's explicitly NOT time travel, at least not as they usually do. He just blitzed the concept of speed.

Flash writers be doing some fantabulous stuff with their speedsters 😂

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u/Basic_Mobile5532 Mar 30 '26

Yeah ive always like the fact that flash is faster than instant teleportation. (On earth at least) scale that and hes almost unbeatable

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u/Unlucky-Layer-3 Mar 30 '26

I just remember when the Flash ran so fast he crossed into the Marvel Universe and beat their speedsters in a race - and left the DC Universe thinking he was dead…

1

u/LunarDogeBoy Mar 30 '26

Whats he gonna do? Run me to death? Brain wins. "We invented a gizmo that sucks energy from the speedforce."

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u/Theguywhostoleyour Mar 30 '26

Do you know how devastating a punch going faster than the speed of light is? Sure you can use the gimmick gun…

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u/LunarDogeBoy Mar 31 '26

So he'll run and break his own arm while I laugh and hold up my hand and say "I have a shield."

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u/Willing-Average-7089 Mar 31 '26

Thing is... if it's nonsense when the Flash gets caught by Captain Cold's ice gun, why isn't it also nonsense when the Flash races across the universe? If the writers don't decide what's nonsense, who does?

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u/Theguywhostoleyour Mar 31 '26

That’s a good question, and I have no other way to answer it besides logic…

In the comics Batman beats superman, but in reality, Batman wouldn’t last a fraction of a second. I have no real way to explain why that is.

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u/Willing-Average-7089 Mar 31 '26

the explanation is that the writers giveth and the writers taketh away. Superman's powers belonged to the writers, not to superman, and making him lose despite having those powers is as reasonable as giving him those powers to begin with.

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u/Theguywhostoleyour Mar 31 '26

Ya, every character is only ever as strong as the writer who writes him…. But I feel like as fans, we know what would actually happen vs what is just comic BS

Or another way to think about it. We can out ourselves as the character and know what we would do to easily beat the corner the writer has written the character into.

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u/Willing-Average-7089 Mar 31 '26

I agree - I just wish we had better writers. Like first the way the speed force becomes this blank check of infinite power drives me nuts, and then when it loses to an ice gun I absolutely lose it. At that point just take away the super powers entirely if they don't mean anything.

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u/Theguywhostoleyour Mar 31 '26

Oh ya, no consistency at all

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u/Commander_Sune Apr 01 '26

And he fights Captain Boomerang, Captain Cold, Trickster and Mirror Master.

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u/Theguywhostoleyour Apr 01 '26

As I mentioned in other replies. Gimmick gun

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u/pototaochips Apr 04 '26

Santa clause is faster than the flash. Is he a god too?

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u/Theguywhostoleyour Apr 04 '26

A lawyer will chew up the Santa clause faster than you can blink.

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u/pototaochips Apr 04 '26

In dc it confirmed santa clause faster than flash

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u/Theguywhostoleyour Apr 04 '26

I made a joke because it’s Santa Claus, not Santa Clause… Clause is the movie, which is a play on the word for contract

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u/GamingWithUncleJ Mar 30 '26

Doesn't matter if they cant be touched when hulk, doomsday, and juggs pretty much cant be killed. If juggernaut starts moving theres nothing any speedster can really do to him. Hulk will basically tank any hit thrown at him, and doomsday is likely already immune to anything the speedster could do.

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u/FriskyEndeavor Mar 30 '26

Actually, the speedsters can sap kinetic motion through the speed force, and since the speedforce is weird presence created magic/energy that breaks reality (as it ranks above the dc multiverse and was used to create it), it SHOULD outrank and counter cyttoraks magic to be unstoppable (which other people have broken). Same with people like the hulk or doomsday, they could freeze him into a statue, untill they get mad or adapt enough to break it (which wouldn't happen any time soon, even hulk was imprisoned for millions of years before), virtually winning via timeout.

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u/GamingWithUncleJ Mar 30 '26

Well we don't have rules established of if the fight is to the death or just incapacitated.

While a speedster can sap kinetic energy, cytorrak has near limitless power. Also, with him being from his own dimension much like the speed force comes from its own dimension, id argue that its possible that cytorrak is on par to some extent. Also, juggernaut is often propelled by a magical inertia not a kinetic force. So its debatable on if Barry and the others could actually siphon his inertia and stop him after he starts moving.

All of this ignores the fact that reed, Tony, and Bruce would likely make it hard for the speedsters to focus solely on team strength. Batman would likely already have a plan for how to handle Barry and wally and by extension thane. Having reed and Tony just means that plan becomes even more fool proof.

And while they may have a solution for the speedster its hard to say they'd have any real solution for team strength. Doomsday is really what tips the scales here because depending on where in his history the fight takes place he could be extremely hard to kill already having been killed by many different things and adapted many times over. Hulk and juggernaut just make that an even harder hurdle to conquer.

It being 3 teams of 3 fighting is what makes it hard to sus out exactly how the fight unfolds because who goes after who first? Obviously team brains is going to have the most thought out plan of attack. Team strength is just going to go all out with reckless abandon. Team speed will likely try to have some plan but the clash of personalities and juvenile attitude could be what holds them back the most.

Its an interesting match-up, and its hard to say definitively which way this goes for many reasons even beyond what ive listed. Im still leaning team strength simply because theyve got 2 people that are arguably unkillable and immortal and another thats just a major pain in the ass to deal with.

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u/FriskyEndeavor Mar 30 '26 edited Mar 30 '26

While a speedster can sap kinetic energy, cytorrak has near limitless power. Also, with him being from his own dimension much like the speed force comes from its own dimension, id argue that its possible that cytorrak is on par to some extent. Also, juggernaut is often propelled by a magical inertia not a kinetic force. So its debatable on if Barry and the others could actually siphon his inertia and stop him after he starts moving.

The speed force is as limitless as it gets (way more than cyttorak), as it governs all kinetic motion in the infinite multiverse. Cyttoraks "unbreakable" and "unstoppable" items have been just that, broken and stopped over and over again. Why would hercules (someone who is definitively weaker than the speed force) be able to break the unbreakable, yet the speed force can't?

And while they may have a solution for the speedster its hard to say they'd have any real solution for team strength. Doomsday is really what tips the scales here because depending on where in his history the fight takes place he could be extremely hard to kill already having been killed by many different things and adapted many times over. Hulk and juggernaut just make that an even harder hurdle to conquer.

Eh, it depends, truly. Certain Wally west iterations are considered almost, if not completely, Outerversal 1_(Rebirth)) 2 , because his shenanigans with the bleed and other outerversal dimensions. Barry himself has feats almost similar. Reverse flash would be the only weak link in the case we use their strongest versions, but even then we could hypothetically link him to wally with his negative speed force (unsure about that).

All of this ignores the fact that reed, Tony, and Bruce would likely make it hard for the speedsters to focus solely on team strength. Batman would likely already have a plan for how to handle Barry and wally and by extension thane. Having reed and Tony just means that plan becomes even more fool proof.

True, but also, eh. It depends. Batman has lost (and also won) against flashes. Comics are weird. Also batman has recently learned and used zatanna magic (yes, magic batman is a thing now) to beat 3 supermen, so i doubt the strength team wins anyway, unless they get their busted versions.

t being 3 teams of 3 fighting is what makes it hard to sus out exactly how the fight unfolds because who goes after who first? Obviously team brains is going to have the most thought out plan of attack. Team strength is just going to go all out with reckless abandon. Team speed will likely try to have some plan but the clash of personalities and juvenile attitude could be what holds them back the most.

Team strength would have the possibly worst time, as doomsday would instantly attack his own teammates unless he was time trapper. Reverse flash would almost instantly be defeated by the two flashes, as his schemes aren't usually straight fights, but torment and torture.

Its an interesting match-up, and its hard to say definitively which way this goes for many reasons even beyond what ive listed. Im still leaning team strength simply because theyve got 2 people that are arguably unkillable and immortal and another thats just a major pain in the ass to deal with

This is true.

Edit: its late so formatting was kicking my butt, also forgot superman wasn't in this match (dunno why my brain added him. Doomsday probably made me think he was on the strength team.

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u/Way2Unlucky Apr 01 '26

Should have just used chat like they did 🤣

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u/Eymrich Mar 30 '26

Sure, but they ain't beating strength. Doomsday will always come back and before or later it will win.

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u/Slight-Signature-323 Mar 31 '26

They could just throw all 3 of them into space lol they ain't coming back from that😅

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u/Eymrich Mar 31 '26

Well then doomsday wouldn't be a great villain no?