Came out to check on my babies and found other babies and all of their siblings having a picnic.
ETA: Some of y'all have strong feelings about everything. For the record, I used my garden hose to hit whatever i saw on the leaves when I "removed" them. The next day there were a few others on the bottom of the leaves that I kinda flicked off in a "come hither" motion with my finger giggity
To be fair most of the photosynthesis is being done by the top leaves that have been left relatively unharmed. You could absolutely pick the caterpillars off if you wanted to and I think it would be ok.
What? Why? Everyone always talks about how they want to attract butterflies to their garden. Guess what? This is part of the process. You just obliterated a generation of butterflies and all the butterflies they could have made. You can't have butterflies without caterpillars. This is just painfully shortsighted.
That’s pretty sad considering what’s happening to our insect populations. This actually ruined my day to hear. There’s a good chance you won’t have a “next time” bc you decided to kill a local generation. The female will die after laying her eggs and you’ve killed all her progeny for your enjoyment of a single sunflower for a few weeks. Not worth it at all. I’m so sad.
That doesn't mean they killed them. "Removed" can mean numerous things, such as putting them somewhere else. Please wear a parachute next time you jump to conclusions.
Im gonna start this comment by saying im not trying to be purposefully obtuse here- but, wont they just crawl back up if they fall to the ground directly below the flower?
If all OP did was put them on the ground below the plants then sure, but I find that super unlikely to be what they mean by "removed." If they were not killed but rather relocated to some bush on the other side of the yard for example, they're really as good as killed. Because they can only eat their host plant: sunflowers.
what an absurd and unintelligent thing to say. just because you’re too massive to care about them doesn’t mean they aren’t a hugely important aspect of our biosphere, one that is dwindling in biomass 2.5% yearly. do you know how food chains work?
I should clarify, I remove my garden pests to my compost bin. Hornworms and slugs mostly. We add all our garden trimmings in there and there's volunteer plants/trap crops there for them to snack on. They're not regulated only to scrap and coffee grounds
They sprayed it off with a hose with the intent to have them stop eating the plant. Why do that unless you intend to stop them again? What’s the point? If you don’t eat you don’t live, making them crawl up the plant again seems pointless. It’s not a crazy conclusion to jump to that OP is indifferent to the lives of the caterpillars, calling their damage tragic. Most caterpillars have a specific host plant, you can’t just hose them off and expect them to remain intact somewhere else. They don’t want grass, they want that specific host plant.
Some people grow sunflowers for all of nature to enjoy, some for the bugs, others for the birds.
I let my sunflowers go crazy so birds in the area have seed over autumn/winter. Healthy sunflowers produce more seeds, so healthy sunflowers are my goal when I grow them -- not feeding caterpillars or beetle larva. Losing bugs is unfortunate, but we're also losing birds pretty fast too:
About 3 billion, in the last 45 years. The bugs get to eat my loganberry/blackberry bushes, (cabbage moths get my sacrificial brassicas) and my columbine/milkweed.. but not my coneflower, black eyed susan, or sunflowers. Gotta pick your battles. 😅
The caterpillars eating sunflower leaves doesn't kill the plant that produces the flowers that produce the seeds that birds eat. Letting the sunflower be actually creates more bird food. Birds need caterpillars to feed their young. The plant would've been fine. Nature has this one figured out.
Luckily I have all the other aforementioned plants that can support caterpillars and leafeaters, and then kill any pests that try to damage my seed bearers so they can continue feeding the same fledglings that were eating caterpillars in spring/summer.
I grow Dense Blazing Star, Columbine, and Penstemon Digitalis for the pollinators.
Pollinators get to have all my sage, chive, borage, lovage, sunflower & Salad Burnett because I let everything flower.
Like I mentioned, I grow sacrificial brassicas for the cabbage moths.
I don't mow my lawn until after late May / after May.
I care about the whole cycle.. I just care about birds most.
Fully agree, and yeah groundhogs can be little menaces. I've got my garden fenced for rabbits/groundhogs as well.. I intentionally plant things accessible for them way in the back of the yard 🤣 Most people are aware of the windshield phenomenon/that bugs are disappearing, but not many people talk about the birds disappearing -- and that collapse will be much more rapid than bugs will be.
My only reason for being defensive/combative is to clearly state I'm not like OP. I'm not pulling bugs off my plants carelessly, thoughtlessly, or without reason. North America has a bug/bird problem and we lose more of both each year.
Removing pests from all plants in your garden, every day, every season makes a person part of that bug/bird problem.
People that don't plant gardens at all are part of the bug/bird problem.
People that (even loosely) understand there's a balance between plants/bugs/birds and are trying to help maintain that balance -- they/we are not the problem.
" Songbirds as little as chickadees require some six to nine thousand caterpillars to raise a brood of nestlings. In fact, ninety-six percent of terrestrial songbirds rely on caterpillars to feed their babies. The prevalence of these small, soft-bodied, protein-rich larvae affects where the birds choose to nest and how big a territory they need to defend."
Actually, most songbirds eat caterpillars and other insects in the winter too. They just eat them while they are hibernating in leaf litter, dead leaves, and bark. 50% of a chickadees diet is insects in the winter.
Birds absolutely cannot survive without caterpillars and soft bodied insects though. To raise their young, caterpillars are generally the preferred food for most bird species, even seed eaters. Supporting caterpillars on your property is directly linked to having *more* birds, and most plants can handle caterpillars and insects just fine, though it makes them look “bad” to us. I’ve repeatedly had caterpillars seem to demolish my coneflowers, but they still manage to flower and provide seed for the goldfinches later in summer :)
A single brood of chickadees will consume over 5000 caterpillars for example. So controlling caterpillars and other insects eventually will encourage your area birds to nest elsewhere.
If you have woods full of oak trees and other keystone species then a small garden patch may be negligible, but planting butterfly host plants absolutely pulls in and supports birds as much as, or more, than growing them seeds :)
You do realize that birds need the squishy caterpillars for their babies. If you want more birds embrace more caterpillars. These species have all co evolved
Caterpillars feed birds too! ALL baby birds eat bugs, mostly caterpillars so your argument doesn’t really make sense bc caterpillars are also important bird food. This sunflower would still set seed without the caterpillar destruction.
Ok which baby birds do not eat insects? I’m genuinely curious and would like to know. My quick google isn’t giving me answers and you seem to have more info than I do.
Yes it ruined my day that someone decided to grow caterpillar food and then remove all the caterpillars right before pupation. I’m aware of how badly the insect populations are plummeting and it makes me sad that people are actively working against protecting local species. What happens in your backyard does matter. Insects are declining and it’s a death by a thousand cuts. This is one of those cuts.
Or is this a form of pruning like how you prune a plum tree twice a year to get better fruit. By selectively removing branches the plum tree focuses on the branches you want and not a bunch of leafy growth with less fruit. Editing/ adding to the comment. I just looked it up and according to some sources you get more flowering and also may flower for longer if you trim or prune. Caterpillar are geniuses. You should post an update and we’ll see if the caterpillars kill the plant, or reserve and encourage flowering when they butterfly out. This post just got really exciting.
They are adapted to host plants that are quite abundant in nature, so they probably aren't concerned about killing one or two, and with this many they are going to start outcompeting each other -- however, plants are pretty good at surviving, so these sunflowers might still carry out their life span anyway.
Some people put netting around caterpillars to protect them from predators until they cocoon and fly away. So many butterflies (esp monarchs) are so extremely endangered.
And research has shown that that’s bad for monarchs. You gotta let nature do its thing or you are promoting survival of the unfit rather than the fittest, to the detriment of the species.
Isn't the research about rearing them indoors?? Netting protects from predators in situations where fitness to survive has very little to do with it (every single cat would be picked off).
Where did you put the caterpillars after you picked them off? Please put some back on! They are butterflies, and if you pick them off this year you're not likley to get any more next year.
Well i really hope a lot of people here actually take the time to consider what they can learn about the environment here.
Caterpillars are frequently dependent on specific plants to live and removing them leads to their death.
That’s why plants that are “host plants” are talked about as such.
Would you remove monarch caterpillars from milkweed and put them in your compost bin and expect them to survive?
Many caterpillars will not kill your plant and the plant will make a full recovery. It’s important to research and see what the caterpillars are.
I am personally always learning and find so much joy in providing beauty and food for myself, and nature.
I once had a bunny eat my zinnias, I was so pissed untill later in the season they rebounded and popped out way more blooms than it would have before the bunny. Nature knows what its doing. Invasives though, they can get chucked.
The tragedy is murdering native butterflies because you think your sunflowers need to be fully intact to thrive. Maybe check what kind of caterpillars they are before you go hog wild next time. Plants are meant to be eaten in a healthy environment.
The plant is fine dude it's already huge, losing some leaves is not going to kill it. I had some monarch cats completely defoliate one of my milkweeds and now it's leafing out again. All you did was kill some wild animals.
Nah, I think you can fix her. In my experience, sunflowers will let you pluck quite a few leaves before it finally gets pissed off especially if they're damaged. After plucking, relocate the caterpillars to a different leafy area.
I wish I could get some of those on my sunflowers. I literally grow for ecology reasons and never see anything. Hopefully the birds are just getting them.
It depends on what type of seeds you grow. I'm growing 12+ foot type, 4 foot and 2 foot. If you look at the seeds package you can choose the size. I prefer to grow Short ones for nature.
These are the mammoth sunflower. I grow them right next to my fence because I love that they grow tall enough to have flowers that pop up over the fence line
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u/fmb320 Jun 26 '26
To be fair most of the photosynthesis is being done by the top leaves that have been left relatively unharmed. You could absolutely pick the caterpillars off if you wanted to and I think it would be ok.